ESB eCars

liamog

Black_Knight wrote: »

I'd be happy with that. Would mean ESB actually deliver 46 more DC chargers. Unlikely though

Last year the focus seemed to be on replacing the old AC units, and the DBT Duals/Triples. This year they seem to have started the "crappy" DC upgrades.

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

Last year the focus seemed to be on replacing the old AC units, and the DBT Duals/Triples. This year they seem to have started the "crappy" DC upgrades.

Crappy because they're removing 22kW charge points, or crappy because the chargers they're putting in are by delboy?

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Or both?

kanuseeme

unkel wrote: »

Another non-upgrade :rolleyes: In fact for some groups like Zoe and older Tesla owners this is a downgrade.

Will you get the bloody finger out ESB and either do a proper upgrade of these old chargers or, preferably, leave them alone and instead spend our tax money on installing some 150kW (or more) multi bay charger that this country really needs.

Roughly 400 zoe's reg'd last 4 years.

This year and last only 38 model S reg'd.

A greater number of people would benefit from this upgrade.

liamog

Black_Knight wrote: »

Crappy because they're removing 22kW charge points, or crappy because the chargers they're putting in are by delboy?

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Or both?

110A (44kW) CCS is a pretty pants charger for 2020, that's what leads to the comments arguing against them. Personally I think they are exactly the kind of chargers that should be installed in these town car parks and it does increase the geographic spread of the DC charging network.

liamog

kanuseeme wrote: »

Roughly 400 zoe's reg'd last 4 years.

This year and last only 38 model S reg'd.

A greater number of people would benefit from this upgrade.

Model S owners could purchase a CHAdeMO adapter or do the CCS upgrade.

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

110A (44kW) CCS is a pretty pants charger for 2020, that's what leads to the comments arguing against them. Personally I think they are exactly the kind of chargers that should be installed in these town car parks and it does increase the geographic spread of the DC charging network.

Maybe ESB are just pandering to the ****show that is 2020, and this is their version of bushfires/locusts/pandemic/America in general/no leaving cert sunny weather that 2020 has thrown at us so far.

kanuseeme

And more multi bays, AC points.

kanuseeme

liamog wrote: »

Model S owners could purchase a CHAdeMO adapter or do the CCS upgrade.

They have paid enough :eek: in taxes

unkel

kanuseeme wrote: »

A greater number of people would benefit from this upgrade.

You're missing the point. We need far more than this "upgrade". We need to think much bigger, not "upgrading" sh1tty one car chargers in the middle of sh1tty small towns so that some cars can charge a little bit faster than before and other cars a little bit slower.

We need proper fast charging multibay infrastructure like in other countries. Not 43kW chargers. Is that really too much to ask? It seems it is and it seems everybody (in here) is reasonably content with the progress being made. We should be outraged, folks.

liamog wrote: »

From the Oireachtas in the first post, there were 50 planned 2x22AC to DC upgrades, I think they've delivered 4 so far. Are we going to get 46 more complaint posts as replies?

Point taken. I'll try limit myself to complaining about just a few of those

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

it seems everybody (in here) is reasonably content with the progress being made.

I'm not content with it. It's not just the fact that they are installing rapid chargers now that don't charge as fast as the ones they were installing nearly 10 years ago, it's the continuing insistence on single chargers.

Why remove the 22kw posts instead of adding to them? What are they doing with all the posts they're removing? Some will tell me that it's due to power requirements on site. Well what's the excuse at the M1 Applegreens then? Those sites used to have a rapid charger AND a 22kw post.

That meant that (a) if the rapid was dead then you weren't stranded, you could still get a slow charge up to the point where you could crawl to the next rapid and (b)if the rapid was in use, you could still get a bit of juice while you waited.

Instead not only do we have 22s being replaced by 43s nationwide instead of added to, but the 22s were removed from the motorway stations years ago and not replaced at all.

ECars don't seem to have a damn clue what they're doing or why. And for having a huge dump of money behind them, they're moving extraordinarily slowly.

cluaindiuic

This is my take on what strategy should be.

Petrol Stations along motorways and primary routes should be the priority for rapid charging. They should, where possible, avoid putting rapid chargers in urban areas when there is a better option out closer to a motorway. Perfect examples of this are in Carlow, Naas and Portlaoise.

In Carlow they added the rapid charger in closer to town next to Supermacs and The Range. A better option would have been the motorway service station at Tinryland.

In Naas, the layout around Monread makes it a poor location for a rapid charger. In a perfect world it be moved to the new Applegreen in Millennium Park.

In Portlaoise they took the charger away from Midway and moved it to a random spot in town. Baffling stuff.

Rochestown in Cork is another example.

Both of those decisions mean that EV drivers on long journeys looking to avail of rapid chargers are at the mercy of local traffic in a way that they wouldn't had they been located adjacent to the motorway.

As an EV driver you want 22kwh chargers at destinations eg scattered across urban areans be they cities, villages or towns. You want to use them where you can occupy yourself for a few hours. Eg Shopping, going to a sporting event, eating in a restaurant. You don't want 22kwh chargers at service stations (bar maybe Zoes) as there is very little to entertain you there. They're a last resort.

Overall this isn't a strategy I've seen adopted consistently which is a shame as eCars have limited resources and they're squandering those resources to a certain extent.

Black_Knight

Naas and portlaoise. Both wasted so much of my time when I drove to Dublin. Naas was a last resort when Mayfield was out of service, and it took an absolute age to drive to and then find when I got there. Portlaoise showed up at midway so again, wasted time looking for that and more again driving into esb in portlaoise, where I could only pull in 30odd kW.

slave1

Horses for courses, I’d prefer the country littered with 22s as I hope to rarely need a rapid and can get 50km range in half an hour which would get me home in virtually all scenarios where I can then charge at my home

cluaindiuic

That's fair. I'm talking through the specific experience of 130000km in an Ioniq. I expect two years from now in the eNiro will alter my thinking. Similar to how a Zoe driver has an entirely different take on things based on their experience of availing of 22kw here there and everywhere.

I think the examples I give are bad EV driving experiences. If we want large scale EV adoption we should try our best to minimise these types of bad experiences. Long journeys in EVs across the country should be optimised to be as efficient as possible. Poor rapid charger locations are an added time stealing negative on EV owners.

DrPhilG

For mass adoption we can't just think about the 3-400km our newer cars can manage, or the 11/22kw* that we can manage on a slow charger.

We also need to think of the thousands of people who will be taking their first step into an EV, in the cars we have upgraded from.

So there will still be masses of 24kWh Leafs. 11kw slow charging is a dream and they need plentiful access to rapids. And not just 1 rapid per station.

unkel

cluaindiuic wrote: »

eCars have limited resources and they're squandering those resources to a certain extent.

This is it really

How much does it cost to have 10 * 6-8 bay 175kW / 350kW charging stations nationwide? Not all that much really and that would give this country a base fast charging network, so even people with (old) EVs with very small batteries or a very small range could confidently travel across Ireland in them.

Get on with it, ESB. Forget about all of the other upgrades, just do it.

McGiver

unkel wrote:

You're missing the point. We need far more than this "upgrade". We need to think much bigger, not "upgrading" sh1tty one car chargers in the middle of sh1tty small towns so that some cars can charge a little bit faster than before and other cars a little bit slower.

I'm always saying do as the Germans and Norwegians do.

Germany is going to mandate all petrol stations to have chargers.

Much better than a failed semi state company building crappy chargers at very high cost cost (inefficiencies, nepotism, corruption) at wrong times, in wrong places and in wrong numbers!

And Norwegians - VAT and VRT exemption for EVs and VAT and unpleasant VRT for ICEs

unkel

Or even like the Netherlands, probably one of the most no-nonsense states in the world. Very little subsidies on new EVs (less than average in the EU), not much in the way of perks, but there is the zero BIK on company cars

Yet if you have an EV (and EV penetration is second in the world after Norway last time I looked) you can just drive around long distance and only look for a fast charging station when the light comes on, just like in a petrol / diesel car. Fast chargers everywhere.

And (almost) no public fast chargers of course, all privately owned networks (Ionity, Tesla Superchargers, FastNed, etc.)

slave1

I don't think we are directly comparable to Norway or Germany, these are not land locked countries so road trips way past a domestic Ireland trip are not just a possibility but relatively more frequent than here...comparable to a degree

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

I don't think we are directly comparable to Norway or Germany, these are not land locked countries so road trips way past a domestic Ireland trip are not just a possibility but relatively more frequent than here...

I'd say 95% of Norwegian cars on Norwegian roads are on a trip that stays in Norway. Same for German cars in Germany. Ireland is small and round, which makes it very easy and cheap to make a fast charging network that covers the island. About 10 charging locations will do nicely (as a start)

bodgerfederer

‘How much does it cost to have 10 * 6-8 bay 175kW / 350kW charging stations nationwide? Not all that much really’

Exactly. Do this and everyone can get everywhere they could want to with no stress. Done. If supermarkets/stores want to offer their customers slow chargers too then great.

liamog

The eCars charger at Union Place in Sligo has been upgraded to a 44kW+6kWAC charger

unkel

Told you I wouldn't give out every time :pac:

slave1

liamog wrote: »

The eCars charger at Union Place in Sligo has been upgraded to a 44kW+6kWAC charger

What's the 6kWAC piece about?

AndyBoBandy

slave1 wrote: »

What's the 6kWAC piece about?

Don't they 'upgrade' the twin 22kWh AC's to a 'fast' CCS/Chademo and a slowed down AC?
so all the free AC 22's we currently have will probably all become this new standard of a very slow AC (6kWh) and a slightly quick 44kWh 'fast' charger?

ELM327

44kW DC and 6kW AC 3 phase (2kW single phase)

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

44kW DC and 6kW AC 3 phase (2kW single phase)

And seeing the majority of new and existing EVs have only single phase charging, it will be the 2kW for most of them.

To put things into perspective, it will take 22 hours to charge a Leaf (40kWh) up from empty to full on one of these. Yes, this is not a typo. Takes a full day and night to charge up a car like that.

No. I'm not giving out about this "upgrade". But, seriously? This is slower than a granny cable at home.

ELM327

Before, they would have gotten a max 7kW, now they ahve the option of ~45kW

liamog

unkel wrote: »

To put things into perspective, it will take 22 hours to charge a Leaf (40kWh) up from empty to full on one of these. Yes, this is not a typo. Takes a full day and night to charge up a car like that.

If only there was a nearby CHAdeMO charger the user could use, maybe mere centimetres away ...

liamog

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Don't they 'upgrade' the twin 22kWh AC's to a 'fast' CCS/Chademo and a slowed down AC?
so all the free AC 22's we currently have will probably all become this new standard of a very slow AC (6kWh) and a slightly quick 44kWh 'fast' charger?

No, as per the first thread in the eCars post, about 50 of the dual AC's are due to be upgraded to increase the geographic coverage of the DC charge network. So far they've installed them in locations which were a reasonable distance from the nearest rapid charger. The pattern appears to be, for towns with multiple AC chargers and no dc charge, one of the AC chargers is upgraded to this.