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Ireland v England 4:45 Aviva Stadium

  • 02-02-2019 2:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 19,230 ✭✭✭✭ Venjur


    DyPj2x2WsAIbN9s?format=jpg&name=small

    DyPJmUiWkAA9rcq.jpg:large

    Head to Head

    England have generally had the upper hand over Ireland in test rugby winning 76 of the 133 tests we've faced each other in.

    Irish rugby however is reaching a point now where it needs to be described in more gregorian terms as there is life before Schmidt and AnnJoe Domini.

    Since Joe has taken over a few stats:
    • We've won all our home games against England
    • We've lost three and won three in total (one loss was a warm up game)
    • We've won a game in Twickenham
    Danger men England
    vunipola.jpg

    Credit to England, they've lost the breakdown battle to Ireland repeatedly under Jones but are sticking to their guns by adding several ball carrying threats to their starting 15 with Hughes and Lawes to come off the bench.

    Tom Curry comes in at openside in the absence of Simmonds and Underhill.

    Vunipola is a game changer for any side be it Saracens or England and brings a dimension that Ireland are going to have to be mindful of. Tuilagi is an interesting one, he's a physical brute but he's being asked to defend the inside channel against the most technically accurate backline in World Rugby.

    Mako gives England much needed experience and maturity at the set piece with the petulant Sinclair often in need of minding at International level.
    Danger men Ireland
    DyPj2x2WsAIbN9s?format=jpg&name=small
    00110f48-500.jpg

    Ireland are well coached, highly consistent and are adaptable. There isn't a lot else to say here - we are more than the sum of our parts and as a group marry both world class international talent with high skill and fitness levels across a pool of around 40+ players.

    I expect a high level of intensity and accuracy from the get go. England will pull up and throw every sink they can find at Ireland but they need to keep throwing for 80 minutes because this group of players will not offer them a single free inch.
    The Match
    I think Ireland are going to vary it up this afternoon. Sexton and Murray will test that English back three and look to land a few floaters around their 22.

    I think both teams are going to try and hold onto the ball but I think Ireland have a more complete chance of actually doing that.

    I think we'll be talking a lot this evening about Isolation and more specifically how England got themselves isolated and turned over at key intervals. England are going to get line breaks and are going to beat defenders with their primary carriers. It's what comes next that is the problem. Securing their ball against an athletic and accurate pack with plenty of poachers proved a step too far against a somewhat disinterested New Zealand in November. I think they'll fare worse today.

    Ireland on the other hand are probably going to come out of the first half with more carries for less distance but we'll have more possession and better territory simply by retaining our ball more reliably and having more avenue's into their half by being prepared to kick. Going down through the England line up they don't look like a team set up to kick at all (which might be part of why Joe has slotted Henshaw in over Kearney).

    As it often does with these two teams I just see it coming down to the breakdown, Jones hasn't done enough in my opinion to negate Ireland's dominance here and I think they will struggle to bring their back three into the game.

    Putting an out of position Daly in at full back as a second distributor is fine but it shows a casual disregard for the potent kicking game Ireland will bring.

    I just can't see how England win this if Ireland are as accurate and physical as they almost always are.
    Build Up


    Team of us. Are you in. We're all in.

    Vodafone have done a pretty good job of integrating their advertising message with the identify of this group of players.

    All the provinces seem to be singing from the same hymn sheet. There is a lot of positivity about Irish rugby and a lot of talk about inclusiveness. Significant chunks of all four squads came back after the Summer with an extreme level of motivation, determination and fitness. This rugby season culminating in the world cup has made it's way into the DNA of this team and there is a group momentum there that is going to deliver something new and something special for Irish rugby.

    It juxtaposes well with much of the talk about project players from previous seasons. I don't think the place of your birth should for the rest of your life define what community you can choose to belong to. I don't think people should shop around for the community that is going to pay them best either. But I think we've gotten the balance right and I was glad to see Bundee take pride of place in the ad I copied above.

    What Bundee has done for Connacht rugby goes beyond his performances on the pitch. Some of the video's that regularly make their way onto social media show me a person that has all the values, integrity and decency that define Irishness for me. Of course these aren't traits unique to Ireland, but I'm happy to be represented by someone who clearly shares those values having brought them with them from abroad. The same goes for CJ and Quinn. If these guys want to represent Ireland they've earned the right to say they are part of the rugby community here - by contributing so much to the wider community in the process.

    Result

    Ireland 31 - 12 England

    I'm definitely all in anyway. As we saw during the summer tour to South Africa, England are capable of starting hard and fronting up but they are also capable of squandering a lead and throwing in the towel.

    I think England has weaknesses that Ireland don't really suffer from and I don't think there is enough buy in between players and coaches nor enough raw rugby intelligence in that 23 to trouble a cohesive Irish team.

    They've new combinations in critical positions and provided we don't give them easy entry into our 22 we'll be fine. England will score if they have good territory and if they have consistent good territory we'll lose the game.

    I had a look at the correlation between Billy Vunipola's meters carried and his teams performances and it goes without saying that he is going to have to get the blue scrum cap Will Connors treatment.

    If we neutralise their ball carrying effectively we will win the game. I don't think England have enough variety or confidence to their game to have a proper plan B.

    I think we'll dominate the final quarter.

    COME ON IRELAND


«13456755

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    LANSDOWNE!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,230 ✭✭✭✭ Venjur


    troyzer wrote: »
    LANSDOWNE!!!!

    Aviva pays a fortune into Irish rugby. They can change their name to Lansdowne insurance if they want!


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭ thomond2006


    31-12?

    FFS delete that ****e quick!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    Venjur wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    LANSDOWNE!!!!

    Aviva pays a fortune into Irish rugby. They can chance their name to Lansdowne insurance if they want!

    Suppose I can't really argue with that.

    I don't think Ireland will score that many points, the English can defend if nothing else. But I don't think they'll score much more than the 12 points you're giving them.

    24-13 for me but one of those Ireland tries will be a garbage time try from one of our huge ball carriers coming off the bench in the last few minutes.

    So it'll probably be 17-13 by the 70th minute but Ireland will be fully in control and never in doubt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,230 ✭✭✭✭ Venjur


    31-12?

    FFS delete that ****e quick!

    Thomonds not in.
    Qk2ylqG.gif


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭ kuang1


    I think England will score no more than 12 points, and we'll be in the mid-20s.

    25-12.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,320 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2


    We tend to be slow starters in the six nations.. hopefully not today though


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭ griffinlee


    my biggest fear today is a chris aston swan dive try.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stheno


    griffinlee wrote: »
    my biggest fear today is a chris aston swan dive try.

    Worse than losing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,218 ✭✭✭✭ bilston


    I think we'll be ambushed today for a number of reasons.

    Vunipola makes a huge difference to England
    First game can be a lottery
    England owe us one
    Not convinced Murray is fit
    Henshaw at FB (could be a masterstroke of course) but will he have the positional nous of Kearney?
    I'm in a negative mood today

    Ireland 16-18 England


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,951 ✭✭✭ munsterlegend


    lawred2 wrote: »
    We tend to be slow starters in the six nations.. hopefully not today though

    Yep especially away from home. I just think we have improved so much over the last year even. Much more attacking threat with Ringrose and Stocksake established and Ryan a monster up front. Of course you can lose any game but I find it hard to see England winning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭ Thrashssacre


    Where's the best spot to watch the match without a ticket? Sinnotts?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 Former Former


    Tv coverage is Virgin Media 1 and ITV.

    Yes, Virgin is very fuzzy on Saorview. Yes, it's a disgrace that you have to pay to get HD. Yes, we know you're just going to watch it on ITV in HD anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,338 ✭✭✭✭ Losty Dublin


    I ought to sue for copying my layout even if you do use big words like Juxtapose :pac:

    Good work, though. The biggest enemy Ireland has to today are Irish nerves and overconfidence IMO. Everybody else here hasn't to worry about that, thank BOD, so a home win of 32-26 is my guess.
    Venjur wrote: »
    DyPj2x2WsAIbN9s?format=jpg&name=small

    DyPJmUiWkAA9rcq.jpg:large

    Head to Head

    England have generally had the upper hand over Ireland in test rugby winning 76 of the 133 tests we've faced each other in.

    Irish rugby however is reaching a point now where it needs to be described in more gregorian terms as there is life before Schmidt and AnnJoe Domini.

    Since Joe has taken over a few stats:
    • We've won all our home games against England
    • We've lost three and won three in total (one loss was a warm up game)
    • We've won a game in Twickenham
    Danger men England
    vunipola.jpg

    Credit to England, they've lost the breakdown battle to Ireland repeatedly under Jones but are sticking to their guns by adding several ball carrying threats to their starting 15 with Hughes and Lawes to come off the bench.

    Tom Curry comes in at openside in the absence of Simmonds and Underhill.

    Vunipola is a game changer for any side be it Saracens or England and brings a dimension that Ireland are going to have to be mindful of. Tuilagi is an interesting one, he's a physical brute but he's being asked to defend the inside channel against the most technically accurate backline in World Rugby.

    Mako gives England much needed experience and maturity at the set piece with the petulant Sinclair often in need of minding at International level.
    Danger men Ireland
    DyPj2x2WsAIbN9s?format=jpg&name=small
    00110f48-500.jpg

    Ireland are well coached, highly consistent and are adaptable. There isn't a lot else to say here - we are more than the sum of our parts and as a group marry both world class international talent with high skill and fitness levels across a pool of around 40+ players.

    I expect a high level of intensity and accuracy from the get go. England will pull up and throw every sink they can find at Ireland but they need to keep throwing for 80 minutes because this group of players will not offer them a single free inch.
    The Match
    I think Ireland are going to vary it up this afternoon. Sexton and Murray will test that English back three and look to land a few floaters around their 22.

    I think both teams are going to try and hold onto the ball but I think Ireland have a more complete chance of actually doing that.

    I think we'll be talking a lot this evening about Isolation and more specifically how England got themselves isolated and turned over at key intervals. England are going to get line breaks and are going to beat defenders with their primary carriers. It's what comes next that is the problem. Securing their ball against an athletic and accurate pack with plenty of poachers proved a step too far against a somewhat disinterested New Zealand in November. I think they'll fare worse today.

    Ireland on the other hand are probably going to come out of the first half with more carries for less distance but we'll have more possession and better territory simply by retaining our ball more reliably and having more avenue's into their half by being prepared to kick. Going down through the England line up they don't look like a team set up to kick at all (which might be part of why Joe has slotted Henshaw in over Kearney).

    As it often does with these two teams I just see it coming down to the breakdown, Jones hasn't done enough in my opinion to negate Ireland's dominance here and I think they will struggle to bring their back three into the game.

    Putting an out of position Daly in at full back as a second distributor is fine but it shows a casual disregard for the potent kicking game Ireland will bring.

    I just can't see how England win this if Ireland are as accurate and physical as they almost always are.
    Build Up


    Team of us. Are you in. We're all in.

    Vodafone have done a pretty good job of integrating their advertising message with the identify of this group of players.

    All the provinces seem to be signing from the same hymn sheet. There is a lot of positivity about Irish rugby and a lot of talk about inclusiveness. Significant chunks of all four squads came back after the Summer with an extreme level of motivation, determination and fitness. This rugby season culminating in the world cup has made it's way into the DNA of this team and there is a group momentum there that is going to deliver something new and something special for Irish rugby.

    It juxtaposes well with much of the talk about project players from previous seasons. I don't think the place of your birth should for the rest of your life define what community you can chose to belong to. I don't think people should shop around for the community that is going to pay them best either. But I think we've gotten the balance right and I was glad to see Bundee take pride of place in the ad I copied above.

    What Bundee has done for Connacht rugby goes beyond his performances on the pitch. Some of the video's that regularly make their way onto social media show me a person that has all the values, integrity and decency that define Irishness for me. Of course these aren't traits unique to Ireland, but I'm happy to be represented by someone who clearly shares those values having brought them with them from abroad. The same goes for CJ and Quinn. If these guys want to represent Ireland they've earned the right to say they are part of the rugby community here - by contributing so much to the wider community in the process.

    Result

    Ireland 31 - 12 England

    I'm definitely all in anyway. As we saw during the summer tour to South Africa, England are capable of starting hard and fronting up but they are also capable of squandering a lead and throwing in the towel.

    I think England has weaknesses that Ireland don't really suffer from and I don't think there is enough buy in between players and coaches nor enough raw rugby intelligence in that 23 to trouble a cohesive Irish team.

    They've new combinations in critical positions and provided we don't give them easy entry into our 22 we'll be fine. England will score if they have good territory and if they have consistent good territory we'll lose the game.

    I had a look at the correlation between Billy Vunipola's meters carried and his teams performances and it goes without saying that he is going to have to get the blue scrum cap Will Connors treatment.

    If we neutralise their ball carrying effectively we will win the game. I don't think England have enough variety or confidence to their game to have a proper plan B.

    I think we'll dominate the final quarter.

    COME ON IRELAND


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 Former Former


    Where's the best spot to watch the match without a ticket? Sinnotts?

    I personally think Sinnotts is the worst bar in Dublin for watching matches.

    Head out towards Baggot St and soak up some of the atmosphere. I always like the 51 on Haddington Road


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,601 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    Heaslip on the last word the other night covered why they won’t suffer from over confidence. That the first thing he would have done in camp was to tell them how **** they are how vulnerable they are and then backed it up with facts. Don’t think complaceny will ever be an issue with a Joe team :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,945 ✭✭✭✭ razorblunt


    Spare a thought for the Boy in Brazil who’s already busy on Twitter banging the “pay me attention” drum, the longer England lead the more he’ll be tweeting one handed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 518 keith_sixteen


    I would like to see Ireland stream through England this evening :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,320 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2


    Tv coverage is Virgin Media 1 and ITV.

    Yes, Virgin is very fuzzy on Saorview. Yes, it's a disgrace that you have to pay to get HD. Yes, we know you're just going to watch it on ITV in HD anyway.

    UTV HD is only freesat/free to air in Ireland right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,170 ✭✭✭ finbarrk


    I personally think Sinnotts is the worst bar in Dublin for watching matches.

    Head out towards Baggot St and soak up some of the atmosphere. I always like the 51 on Haddington Road

    I thought Sinnotts was fine anyway.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭ how.gareth


    lawred2 wrote: »
    UTV HD is only freesat/free to air in Ireland right?

    I would have thought if a channel is FTA in one country then it’s FTA everywhere?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,661 ✭✭✭✭ MadYaker


    Ireland by 2 scores I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    A bird just shat directly on my head on my walk to the stadium.

    Thoughts? Is this a positive omen?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,045 ✭✭✭✭ vienne86


    troyzer wrote: »
    A bird just shat directly on my head on my walk to the stadium.

    Thoughts? Is this a positive omen?

    Oh dear. Doesn't sound too positive to me, but if that is what it takes to give us a win, then .......


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stheno


    troyzer wrote: »
    A bird just shat directly on my head on my walk to the stadium.

    Thoughts? Is this a positive omen?

    Yes.
    Please wash your head b before taking your seat though


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    Stheno wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    A bird just shat directly on my head on my walk to the stadium.

    Thoughts? Is this a positive omen?

    Yes.
    Please wash your head b before taking your seat though

    Done. Now I just look like I have greasy hair.

    Winning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,261 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    Great OP Venjur. Informative and to the point.

    But on the match itself. I'm extremely worried and genuinely think England will turn us over. We've gotten the better of them recently, but the return of Billy and Tuilagi can have a transformative effect. They have the huge ball carriers in the side that they built their 2016 & 2017 successes on.

    Rugby has become a highly technical game, with subtle tweaks sometimes being the difference between two evenly matched sides. But at its core it's still about the physical battle. England have set up to pulverise us and may well do. This should all be prefaced by the fact I'm generally pessimistic by nature of course.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 649 Southdubin6


    Clegg wrote: »
    Great OP Venjur. Informative and to the point.

    But on the match itself. I'm extremely worried and genuinely think England will turn us over. We've gotten the better of them recently, but the return of Billy and Tuilagi can have a transformative effect. They have the huge ball carriers in the side that they built their 2016 & 2017 successes on.

    Rugby has become a highly technical game, with subtle tweaks sometimes being the difference between two evenly matched sides. But at its core it's still about the physical battle. England have set up to pulverise us and may well do. This should all be prefaced by the fact I'm generally pessimistic by nature of course.


    I believe Tuilagi is long past his best maybe I’m wrong. I believe we will frustrate england and will be good for a win.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,320 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2


    how.gareth wrote: »
    I would have thought if a channel is FTA in one country then it’s FTA everywhere?

    Yeah so you don't have to pay for the game in HD as was claimed


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 Former Former


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Yeah so you don't have to pay for the game in HD as was claimed

    If you have a dish.

    I was just poking a bit of fun at the identical posts that come up fifty times during every Six Nations game.


This discussion has been closed.
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