Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Seth Brundle

I shouldn't expect much from this rag but I thought this exceptional investigative journalism was a humourous way to start my morning...

'Italy PRIMED and ready' to follow Brexit Britain and QUIT EU – Brussels 'terrified'

ITALY is “primed and ready” to quit the Brussels bloc and follow Britain out of the European Union after Brexit, a radio caller has claimed.

A radio caller has insisted that Italy is ready to follow Brexit Britain out of the European Union. Speaking on talkRADIO, the caller, known as Geoff, whose wife is Italian, claimed the whole of Italy is “watching” what Britain is doing.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1093608/Brexit-news-UK-European-Union-Italy-news-EU-Theresa-May-Matteo-Salvini

- a radio caller has claimed.


That is hilarious. They wrote an entire article based on the anecdote of one man. Good enough for downcow I'm sure.

VinLieger

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I shouldn't expect much from this rag but I thought this exceptional investigative journalism was a humourous way to start my morning...

'Italy PRIMED and ready' to follow Brexit Britain and QUIT EU – Brussels 'terrified'


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1093608/Brexit-news-UK-European-Union-Italy-news-EU-Theresa-May-Matteo-Salvini

A radio caller..... really.... jesus the express is some desperate pathetic rag

Peregrinus

Even by the standards of the Express, that's pretty poor.

lawred2

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I shouldn't expect much from this rag but I thought this exceptional investigative journalism was a humourous way to start my morning...

'Italy PRIMED and ready' to follow Brexit Britain and QUIT EU – Brussels 'terrified'


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1093608/Brexit-news-UK-European-Union-Italy-news-EU-Theresa-May-Matteo-Salvini

"a radio caller has claimed"

that's as of much value than "a man down the pub"

surreal

murphaph

Deleted User wrote: »

- a radio caller has claimed.


That is hilarious. They wrote an entire article based on the anecdote of one man. Good enough for downcow I'm sure.

That's not uncommon for that particular news outlet. They often have entire articles based on what a QT audience member said. Usually with a still frame of said individual with their mouth wide open as if shouting. It's pure propaganda, but works.

josip

Peregrinus wrote: »

Even by the standards of the Express, that's pretty poor.

Yes, but they probably influence more of the UK population than the Guardian, FT, etc.
A very large percentage of the UK population have been systemically brainwashed for decades by the Uk media.
We can focus on the few percentage points impact of Facebook targeted advertising but it's small in comparison to the tabloids.
At this stage it's best for everybody that the UK leave the EU. Leaving without a deal would be preferable to remaining.
They are a malignant influence that need to be excised.

youcantakethat

Remember though the words of Ignazio Corrao, adviser to Luigi Di Maio, the deputy prime minister and leader of the Five Star Movement, who said Italy could still leave the EU. He attacked the arrogance of the European Commission and EU leaders for making no changes since Britain’s vote to leave the bloc.

Do not forget Italian unemployment recently was 10.6 percent, and youth unemployment was 34.7 percent. UK unemployment is 4%, so you could say there is full emploiyment in the UK, plus wages are higher in the UK than Italy. Staggeringly, GDP per capita in Italy is lower now, in real terms, than it was in 1999 on the eve of its entry into the euro.

Zubeneschamali

youcantakethat wrote: »

Remember though the words of Ignazio Corrao, adviser to Luigi Di Maio, the deputy prime minister and leader of the Five Star Movement, who said Italy could still leave the EU.

I really, really don't care about the words of an advisor to the leader of a populist party in Italy, thanks.


Now, about Brexit.

That unemployment figure was achieved whilst inside the EU. Harping on about it is pointless.

megatron989

I'm all for freedom of speech, but how are absolute rags like the express allowed to pump out this rubbish and exert so much influence without anyone doing anything about it? Is their no case to be made against them that they are actively damaging the UK or that they are spreading lies etc?
We've seen the results of the stories they print on the weaker minded (I've had to skip so many pages here purely for my own mental sanity) and in some ways it's almost abuse to lead these people who aren't capable of independent taught.
If google could start ranking news articles with some kind of community based trust metric or rating it'd be a start. No hope of Facebook doing anything, but if you get your news from Facebook (which many obviously do) well theirs little hope for you regardless. It's all madness.
Perhaps the UK would do well to teach kids to do research themselves on topics of importance rather than licking the news up off the streets.

youcantakethat

Deleted User wrote: »

That unemployment figure was achieved whilst inside the EU.

Correct. The Italian unemployment figure of 10.6% was achieved late last year while Italy is inside the EU.

In other EU news, it has just emerged that our (Irelands) contributions to EU coffers are set to sky rocket. No surprise there. Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas, said he believed the country had “already passed” the point at which the budget contributions had “become too much”. He said “My worry is with the new budget being talked about when the UK pulls out, the EU commission will make a big grab for more money.”
Mr Bassett said he was dismayed at Dublin’s tepid response to the budget’s impending increase and said other EU states across the bloc were already taking hard-line stances.

He said it was Ireland, not the EU, who held all the cards - not just in Brexit negotiations but also due to the rise in euroscepticism across the bloc.

Silent Running

youcantakethat wrote: »

Remember though the words of Ignazio Corrao, adviser to Luigi Di Maio, the deputy prime minister and leader of the Five Star Movement, who said Italy could still leave the EU. He attacked the arrogance of the European Commission and EU leaders for making no changes since Britain’s vote to leave the bloc.

This ranks with the other rubbish above. Any of the EU members could leave, it's what article 50 is designed for. Even Ireland 'could' leave, but we won't. Not in the short term anyway.

Seth Brundle

youcantakethat wrote: »

In other EU news, it has just emerged that our (Irelands) contributions to EU coffers are set to sky rocket. No surprise there.

...and what will we get back?

FrancieBrady

youcantakethat wrote: »

Correct. The Italian unemployment figure of 10.6% was achieved late last year while Italy is inside the EU.

In other EU news, it has just emerged that our (Irelands) contributions to EU coffers are set to sky rocket. No surprise there. Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas, said he believed the country had “already passed” the point at which the budget contributions had “become too much”. He said “My worry is with the new budget being talked about when the UK pulls out, the EU commission will make a big grab for more money.”
Mr Bassett said he was dismayed at Dublin’s tepid response to the budget’s impending increase and said other EU states across the bloc were already taking hard-line stances.

He said it was Ireland, not the EU, who held all the cards - not just in Brexit negotiations but also due to the rise in euroscepticism across the bloc.

Ray wants us to leave the EU and has been consistently against everything we are doing about Brexit...isn't that correct?

ArmaniJeanss

youcantakethat wrote: »

Staggeringly, GDP per capita in Italy is lower now, in real terms, than it was in 1999 on the eve of its entry into the euro.

This sentence rang a bell. It's literally copied word for word including punctuation from an article I read in December.
https://fee.org/articles/why-italy-could-join-the-uk-in-the-race-out-of-the-eu/

Is there a playbook of useful sentences somewhere that you get to choose from?

prawnsambo

youcantakethat wrote: »

Correct. The Italian unemployment figure of 10.6% was achieved late last year while Italy is inside the EU.

In other EU news, it has just emerged that our (Irelands) contributions to EU coffers are set to sky rocket. No surprise there. Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas, said he believed the country had “already passed” the point at which the budget contributions had “become too much”. He said “My worry is with the new budget being talked about when the UK pulls out, the EU commission will make a big grab for more money.”
Mr Bassett said he was dismayed at Dublin’s tepid response to the budget’s impending increase and said other EU states across the bloc were already taking hard-line stances.

He said it was Ireland, not the EU, who held all the cards - not just in Brexit negotiations but also due to the rise in euroscepticism across the bloc.

Mr. Bassett is the founder of the Irexit 'party' and buddy of Farage. He is about as believable in his utterings as said Farage. Who, let's not forget, told NI businessman during the referendum campaign that brexit was a political decision and had nothing to do with trade.

And you completely missed the point that UK unemployment figures came whilst in the EU. Deliberately I would suggest.

youcantakethat

youcantakethat wrote: »

Correct. The Italian unemployment figure of 10.6% was achieved late last year while Italy is inside the EU.

And the UK's?

Leonard Hofstadter

Ah, good old Ray Bassett. The former ambassador who has spoken to the Irexit 'Freedom' Party and has been critical both in Irish and British media about our demands on the backstop :rolleyes:. Next.

oscarBravo

youcantakethat wrote: »

Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas, said...

From a radio caller, to a bloke down the pub, to Ray Bassett. I think it's fair to say that's a steady downward trajectory.

youcantakethat

Indeed our (Irelands) net contribution to the EU is forecast to rise 51% from 2017 level by 2021.

Seth Brundle

youcantakethat wrote: »

Indeed our (Irelands) net contribution to the EU is forecast to rise 51% from 2017 level by 2021.

...and what do we get in return for our membership fee?
Frankly you're getting boring now!

youcantakethat

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and what do we get in return for our membership fee?

Since joining in the early seventies Ireland got shed loads of money from the EEC / EU, we all know that, but a few years ago things turned and now are are having to pay an ever increasing amount. Our contributions to the EU are set to increase dramatically, according to todays Examiner. All this while we have a housing and homeless crises, while we are the third most indebted country in the developed world etc.

Last November the European Commission said it was "delighted" that the leaders of France and Germany have backed the creation of a "real" EU army, so at least our membership will buy us that, just give it a few more years.

youcantakethat

youcantakethat wrote: »

Indeed our (Irelands) net contribution to the EU is forecast to rise 51% from 2017 level by 2021.

You're from Northern Ireland. What are you going on about?

CelticRambler

fash wrote: »

As regards your consistent abuse of statistics regarding employment, it's of note that 9 of the 10 poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK. "Full employment" - yet still the poorest places in Northern Europe - and that is before the Brexit job losses are felt.

Tip of the day: when arguing against the abuse of statistics, don't use a now well-discredited misleading example from several years ago ...

Deleted User wrote: »

- a radio caller has claimed.

That is hilarious. They wrote an entire article based on the anecdote of one man.

If I'd read this comment yesterday, I would have agreed wholeheartedly; but this morning, I woke up to a phone-in on French radio and heard a woman argue that there should be an in/out referendum held in this country (France) on the same day as the EP elections. :eek:

And it occurred to me that the vast majority of ordinary people in France are completely oblivious to the Westminster pantomime, and how the two major parties have tied themselves in knots trying to deliver the undeliverable, based entirely on a simple in-out question.

Perhaps we should not dismiss so easily the opinion of the radio caller or the man in the pub, because multiplied across the electorate, a misguided French peasant's vote could cause just as much havoc as a manipulated English malcontent.

VinLieger

youcantakethat wrote: »

Indeed our (Irelands) net contribution to the EU is forecast to rise 51% from 2017 level by 2021.

Can you tell us how much that will actually mean? You love using statistics and percentages to your own advantage but i suspect 51% will not be that large an increase in the grand scheme of things.


Also since we are the fastest growing economy in the EU, literally because we are in the EU, an increase in payments should be fully expected as that is how the EU and the single market works. The richer countries help out the poorer ones in times of need and that then helps raise us all up as one.

Zubeneschamali

youcantakethat wrote: »

Indeed our (Irelands) net contribution to the EU is forecast to rise 51% from 2017 level by 2021.

A lot of this increase is simply because our economy is doing so well. EU contributions are calculated as a percentage of VAT receipts and Gross National Income- when the economy is going well VAT take and GNI increase and contributions go up. The Irish Times story reporting that same 50% increase above states that even under current contribution rules:



Ireland is expected to have to pay a €2.7 billion contribution this year, which is 35 per cent higher than than last year and more than double what the State paid five years ago, reflecting the rapid recovery in the economy.


This increase is good news, it is like looking at your payslip and finding the income tax paid has risen, because your total income rose.

Professor Moriarty

CelticRambler wrote: »

Tip of the day: when arguing against the abuse of statistics, don't use a now well-discredited misleading example from several years ago ...



If I'd read this comment yesterday, I would have agreed wholeheartedly; but this morning, I woke up to a phone-in on French radio and heard a woman argue that there should be an in/out referendum held in this country (France) on the same day as the EP elections. :eek:

And it occurred to me that the vast majority of ordinary people in France are completely oblivious to the Westminster pantomime, and how the two major parties have tied themselves in knots trying to deliver the undeliverable, based entirely on a simple in-out question.

Perhaps we should not dismiss so easily the opinion of the radio caller or the man in the pub, because multiplied across the electorate, a misguided French peasant's vote could cause just as much havoc as a manipulated English malcontent.

On that, 64% of French voters believe that being in the EU is good for France, a jump of 6% since April 2018. In fact, positive attitudes towards the EU has increased across the EU since the Brexit referendum. Britain included.

prawnsambo

youcantakethat wrote: »

Indeed our (Irelands) net contribution to the EU is forecast to rise 51% from 2017 level by 2021.

You'll have a source for that I'm sure. One that isn't as disreputable as your last few.

jm08

youcantakethat wrote: »

Do not forget Italian unemployment recently was 10.6 percent, and youth unemployment was 34.7 percent. UK unemployment is 4%, so you could say there is full emploiyment in the UK, plus wages are higher in the UK than Italy. Staggeringly, GDP per capita in Italy is lower now, in real terms, than it was in 1999 on the eve of its entry into the euro.

Not sure about that. According to this, over 1 million public sector employees are on less than a living wage.

The Living Wage Foundation said as many as 1.2 million people working for the NHS, councils and other public sector employers receive unsustainably low wages of less than £9 an hour, or £10.55 in London.
It said public sector workers, employed either directly by the state or on outsourced contracts, account for up to 20% of the 6 million people in Britain paid less than this level – the real living wage – which is a voluntary minimum set each year to reflect living costs.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/28/public-sector-workers-living-wage-in-work-poverty-report