Is accountability alien to our public sector?

AndrewJRenko

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You think people are going around to banking headquarters and recording everything on their phones? Average joe soaps?

You think bankers who want leverage over their bosses and competitors AREN'T recording everything?

Flyingsnowball

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Angry? You're throwing around allegations of corruption, with zero evidence and close to zero understanding of how the supposedly corrupt process actually works, changing the subject and shifting the goalposts every time you're asked for specifics, and you don't understand why people are angry - really?

You are blindly defending a process you either know nothing about or are very close to. You are blindly defending the every government department on every level of corruption and ask if anything was reported to the gaurds.

The gaurds have all sorts of corruption going on themselves. I’m sure you are going to ask me to list them.

When I do you will either say they didn’t happen or tell me the system has been changed so that it never happens again. Until it happens again.

Then you will ask me for proof until it is proven then we will go around in circles again.

You are part of the problem.

AndrewJRenko

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I doubt very much if the LIBOR scandal is not being repeated. And it would have to be directed from the top.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libor_scandal

So you don't think that the regulatory reforms brought in specifically to stop it being repeated are working today then?

dxhound2005

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you don't think that the regulatory reforms brought in specifically to stop it being repeated are working today then?

It might do. But with the penchant for greed in the private sector, it will take a very strong public sector regulatory framework to ensure that it won't be repeated. And unsurprisingly another scandal from the past has emerged.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0131/1026735-euro-zone-banks/

AndrewJRenko

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Bringing sick children on public transport is not an option for most and puts them at even more risk. Many of these children have vulnerable immune systems. You could be endangering their lives. Even the common flu could kill them. Parking and easy access has to be a central consideration.

Seems to work OK for some of the best paediatric hospitals in the world, like Great Ormonde St, who don't hesitate to tell their families to walk or use public transport, as it helps patients to breathe


https://www.gosh.nhs.uk/your-hospital-visit/travelling-gosh

Flyingsnowball

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you don't think that the regulatory reforms brought in specifically to stop it being repeated are working today then?

They are working perfectly. They give the perception that the system is working honestly while it is being used as a trough.

That’s what it’s all about.

AndrewJRenko

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

They are working perfectly. They give the perception that the system is working honestly while it is being used as a trough.

That’s what it’s all about.

And your level of experience will LIBOR regulation is?

Flyingsnowball

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And your level of experience will LIBOR regulation is?

It’s part of the big circle of poop swirling around the flushing toilet that is Irish public spending for as long as I’m alive.

I have to hand it to the lads on the radio and tv who have to pretend they are surprised there is a scandal every time there is a scandal.

AndrewJRenko

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

It’s part of the big circle of poop swirling around the flushing toilet that is Irish public spending for as long as I’m alive.

I have to hand it to the lads on the radio and tv who have to pretend they are surprised there is a scandal every time there is a scandal.

So that's a No then - you know nothing about LIBOR regulation but you're quite happy to speak definitively about how it's not working. Is there anything that you're not a barstool expert in?

ToBeFrank123

So basically unqualified fools came up with the original estimate. Once it passed planning and political sign off the "experts" and builders came up with the real price which was at least 1.3 billion more.

You can understand why people have lost faith in the process.

The hospital wouldn't have got sign off if the true cost was known originally. So a huge pulling wool over the eyes exercise was needed to get it past the public.

They've been rumbled. Now watch them scurry for the hills.

Wheeliebin30

1.7 billion on a vital hospital that will do is a 100 years yet no one dares question the 20 BILLION welfare budget per annum.

I don’t get it.

Flyingsnowball

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So that's a No then - you know nothing about LIBOR regulation but you're quite happy to speak definitively about how it's not working. Is there anything that you're not a barstool expert in?

I have had my stool sat at the bar of life for a few years now and have seen my share of smoke and mirrors I agree.
Basically after twenty years inthe plumbing game I can spot a flushing toilet a mile off.

I can imagine ringing my boss and telling him I underpriced a job by a few hundred million.

Wheeliebin30

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

So basically unqualified fools came up with the original estimate. Once it passed planning and political sign off the "experts" and builders came up with the real price which was at least 1.3 billion more.

You can understand why people have lost faith in the process.

The hospital wouldn't have got sign off if the true cost was known originally. So a huge pulling wool over the eyes exercise was needed to get it past the public.

They've been rumbled. Now watch them scurry for the hills.

What then?

No children’s hospital?

How do we know it wouldn’t cost the same if built in blanch?

Experts everywhere.

noodler

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

You are blindly defending a process you either know nothing about or are very close to. You are blindly defending the every government department on every level of corruption and ask if anything was reported to the gaurds.

The gaurds have all sorts of corruption going on themselves. I’m sure you are going to ask me to list them.

When I do you will either say they didn’t happen or tell me the system has been changed so that it never happens again. Until it happens again.

Then you will ask me for proof until it is proven then we will go around in circles again.

You are part of the problem.

My god you need a tinfoil hat.

Flyingsnowball

noodler wrote: »

My god you need a tinfoil hat.

Yeah so does Maurice maccabe and the barmen in templemore.

CrankyHaus

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There are very strict ethics rules for Councillors, and they get pulled up on them by SIPO from time to time. These rules don't bar Councillors from doing business with the Council, provided they have no role in awarding contracts, and their interests are declared.

.

RTE recorded 3 Councillors agreeing to take bribes. Yet they continued to serve as Councillors, "very strict ethics rules" indeed.

Flyingsnowball

CrankyHaus wrote: »

RTE recorded 3 Councillors agreeing to take bribes. Yet they continued to serve as Councillors, "very strict ethics rules" indeed.

Big swirling toilet, if the councilors got the road 3 other lads would roll into their place and be coached by the 3 fired lads.
Smoke and mirrors and ensuring the perception of honesty with the general public.



That’s new politics, same as old politics.

ToBeFrank123

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

What then?

No children’s hospital?

How do we know it wouldn’t cost the same if built in blanch?

Experts everywhere.

There aren't experts everywhere. All we need is someone to come up with a ballpark figure within a few hundred million so we can decide if its worth it or if there are better alternatives including investing in current hospitals.

This new hospital will have to be paid for by cutbacks elsewhere and even at the new hospital.

Its been a disaster.

BrianBoru00

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

.........
Patient representation and staff representation would be great indeed. It was interesting to see the RSA including two parents of road death victims on their latest board.


But really, why would parking be the deciding factor in locating a facility like this. Do we want great parking and poor clinical results? The location was chosen by an expert panel of medics, planners and architects. Why would you think that you know better?

Again whether its built in JAmes or 15 minutes drive west will not have an impact on clinical results - the co location argument was quite a weak one - If we are building the best childrens hospital then we need to stock it with top class physicians, not running next door to the " big peoples" hospital when we need them.

"Expert" is quite loosely used there and who selected that panel??? It's absolute madness to locate it where it is.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And by the way, it's EXACTLY the kind of thinking that you call for - outsourcing of ALL risk onto the builder - that results in huge inflated prices on these contracts. Be careful what you wish for.

Then so be it but at least it will then be transparent and builders can try and better the main competitors. But as people have said umpteen times - the increase in price due to inflation can be factored in but is more like 3-5% than 300%

Wheeliebin30

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There aren't experts everywhere. All we need is someone to come up with a ballpark figure within a few hundred million so we can decide if its worth it or if there are better alternatives including investing in current hospitals.

This new hospital will have to be paid for by cutbacks elsewhere and even at the new hospital.

Its been a disaster.

This has been discussed for 20 years.

No more delays just get it built.

As I said we spend 20 billion a year on welfare. No one questions that.

1.7 billion to look after our kids.

Just build it

beauf

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Seems to work OK for some of the best paediatric hospitals in the world, like Great Ormonde St, who don't hesitate to tell their families to walk or use public transport, as it helps patients to breathe


https://www.gosh.nhs.uk/your-hospital-visit/travelling-gosh

So how many actually use public transport and how many drive to gosh?

AndrewJRenko

CrankyHaus wrote: »

RTE recorded 3 Councillors agreeing to take bribes. Yet they continued to serve as Councillors, "very strict ethics rules" indeed.

Yep, the legal process is still going through. It takes time to do things right, so that they can't be challenged and overruled.

beauf wrote: »

So how many actually use public transport and how many drive to gosh?

I'd guess most of them, given that there is zero parking for patients/families.

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Again whether its built in JAmes or 15 minutes drive west will not have an impact on clinical results - the co location argument was quite a weak one - If we are building the best childrens hospital then we need to stock it with top class physicians, not running next door to the " big peoples" hospital when we need them.

"Expert" is quite loosely used there and who selected that panel??? It's absolute madness to locate it where it is.

So just to be clear, 4 x experienced medical consultants, 2 x planners, one architect and one hospital CEO aren't experts? The average boards poster know more than that esteemed group?

CrankyHaus

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yep, the legal process is still going through. It takes time to do things right, so that they can't be challenged and overruled.

Of course, of course. Just like the Tribunal report on Lowry was forwarded to the Gardai for investigation... In 2011 with no action yet taken while Lowry keeps FG in government. These things take time I suppose.

Even if anyone did believe that genuine efforts were being made to address the evident corruption of those Councillors, which they aren't, justice delayed is justice denied.

beauf

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

... I'd guess most of them, given that there is zero parking for patients/families...

No parking at temple st street either. That doesn't mean no one's using their car. If you look at the forums for gosh lots of advice about using the nearby car parks. We know nothing about how people travel to gosh. No stats nothing. So it's not an example of anything.

Most people commenting on this thread have not used any of these hospitals, not read any of the reports. It's just guesses and assumptions.

fxotoole

BBFAN wrote: »

I think there are a lot of public sector workers on boards OP, so you're on a losing streak straight off but I agree with you completely.

I deal with public sector employees daily in my current position and they genuinely do not give 2 ****s about their job, it's all voicemails and emails. And btw their emails have no telephone number on them in case god forbid you might ring them.

I also have a friend who works in the public sector and insists that she has to take her sick leave days EVERY year.

It's turns my stomach.

1 massive generalization and 1 anecdote, good job there

fxotoole

Giveaway wrote: »

Need to just stop the project. Stop paying out to builders etc. Minisiter needs to state no new childrens' hospital and place the blame back on the ones riding the country for all its worth. And if they start playing the poor mouth be told publicly"tough, you killed the golden goose ". Then any future state tenders will not be subject to cost overruns

Edit-start firing the state emloyees who approved these costs, starting with Harris

Political suicide

Flyingsnowball

fxotoole wrote: »

1 massive generalization and 1 anecdote, good job there

Come off it, we all know there are public service workers no better than dole scroungers gaming the system. The only question is the percentage between genuine workers and people who would save the state money if they jacked in their job and signed on the dole.

brendanwalsh

PhilOssophy wrote: »

This follows hot on the heels of a scandal which cost people their lives in the cervical cancer scandal - public servants knew that women were terminally ill and didn't compel doctors to tell these women.

I don't think this sentence is correct is it ?
The women were later diagnosed with cervical cancer but the original tests were only found to be wrong when the went back and re audited them.
My understanding is once the tests were known to be abnormal the women had already been diagnosed with cervical cancer

AndrewJRenko

beauf wrote: »

No parking at temple st street either. That doesn't mean no one's using their car. If you look at the forums for gosh lots of advice about using the nearby car parks. We know nothing about how people travel to gosh. No stats nothing. So it's not an example of anything.

It's an example of a major children's hospital that doesn't provide parking for parents and asks people to travel on foot or by public transport.

beauf wrote: »

Most people commenting on this thread have not used any of these hospitals, not read any of the reports. It's just guesses and assumptions.

You're right, the arrogance of the bar-stool experts is breathtaking.

fxotoole

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

I think a lot of the time the fella awarding the contract tells his mate to name his price and they split the money.

Quite the allegation you’ve got there. Any evidence though?