Is accountability alien to our public sector?

Flyingsnowball

fxotoole wrote: »

Quite the allegation you’ve got there. Any evidence though?

Round and round like a big swirling toilet. If I had evidence would you try make it disappear or welcome it.

I never said it has happened here but it does happen all across all contract awarding situations and I do have personal experience with fitting new boilers in the fella who was awarding a big contracts mother’s house. Then a few weeks later aunts house and it goes on right through all industries so it is not quite the allegation at all. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest where the public sector has time and time again proven to take the tax money and use it like a pig feeder.

beauf

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's an example of a major children's hospital that doesn't provide parking for parents and asks people to travel on foot or by public transport.....

It can ask all it likes. The question is do they? Without knowing that its a bit pointless.

Judging by all the hits you get searching on it, and how many car parks there are around it, (which seem to come up when you search for GOSH) the issue isn't finding parking.

steddyeddy

I my brief time in the HSE's biochemistry lab I've seen the civil servants engage in nepotism, over spending and protecting incompetence at the expense of patients health.

steddyeddy

I'll just add that if you secured a job in the civil service because your related to someone there then you're part of the problem.

AndrewJRenko

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

Round and round like a big swirling toilet. If I had evidence would you try make it disappear or welcome it.

I never said it has happened here but it does happen all across all contract awarding situations and I do have personal experience with fitting new boilers in the fella who was awarding a big contracts mother’s house. Then a few weeks later aunts house and it goes on right through all industries so it is not quite the allegation at all. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest where the public sector has time and time again proven to take the tax money and use it like a pig feeder.

So the corruption occurs in the private sector, and you therefore 'wouldn't be surprised' if it is also happening in the public sector - that's the extent of your evidence? I hope you never join the Gardai, as if you do, lots of innocent people are going to be up in Court facing charges for stuff they didn't do.

beauf wrote: »

It can ask all it likes. The question is do they? Without knowing that its a bit pointless.

Judging by all the hits you get searching on it, and how many car parks there are around it, (which seem to come up when you search for GOSH) the issue isn't finding parking.

The point is that the hospital doesn't provide parking, and everything works out quite successfully regardless.

steddyeddy wrote: »

I my brief time in the HSE's biochemistry lab I've seen the civil servants engage in nepotism, over spending and protecting incompetence at the expense of patients health.

That's strange, because HSE staff aren't civil servants. But please do share details of whatever issues you reported to get the problem solved?

Flyingsnowball

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So the corruption occurs in the private sector, and you therefore 'wouldn't be surprised' if it is also happening in the public sector - that's the extent of your evidence? I hope you never join the Gardai, as if you do, lots of innocent people are going to be up in Court facing charges for stuff they didn't do.

Have you read the news the last twenty or so years, I have.

It’s a merry go round of corruption. Like a big swirling toilet. If we arnt uncovering corruption we are either waiting on evidence of corruption or holding an enquiry into how the corruption happened.

AndrewJRenko

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

Have you read the news the last twenty or so years, I have.

It’s a merry go round of corruption. Like a big swirling toilet. If we arnt uncovering corruption we are either waiting on evidence of corruption or holding an enquiry into how the corruption happened.

Have you read the news of the other 99% of successful projects that proceed normally on time on budget? No, because I guess that doesn't make headlines. You wouldn't want to believe everything you read in the papers, or assume that it is any way representative of normal day-to-day activity.


But yeah, let's solve the problem by throwing round wild allegations with no evidence. That's really going to help.

Flyingsnowball

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you read the news of the other 99% of successful projects that proceed normally on time on budget? No, because I guess that doesn't make headlines. You wouldn't want to believe everything you read in the papers, or assume that it is any way representative of normal day-to-day activity.


But yeah, let's solve the problem by throwing round wild allegations with no evidence. That's really going to help.

I’d say 99 per cent is a bit of a stretch. Even for the ones caught with their fingers in the till.

If I flooded a 1 in every hundred houses I worked in and walked away with twice the price I quoted I wouldn’t be in business very long. Never mind having some sort of ineptitude going on every week.
Roxanne pallet accused a fella in the big brother house of hitting her harder than he did and her career is ruined yet the gaurds here can accuse a whistleblower of being a paedophile and nothing happens.

suicide_circus

I welcome the fact that the government are going to allow the pwc review to find individuals responsible

AndrewJRenko

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

I’d say 99 per cent is a bit of a stretch. Even for the ones caught with their fingers in the till.

If I flooded a 1 in every hundred houses I worked in and walked away with twice the price I quoted I wouldn’t be in business very long. Never mind having some sort of ineptitude going on every week.
Roxanne pallet accused a fella in the big brother house of hitting her harder than he did and her career is ruined yet the gaurds here can accuse a whistleblower of being a paedophile and nothing happens.

Well, we all know that you've nothing to base your estimates on, so any talk of numbers is really pointless. But look at the breadth of activity coming out of any Government department and the many agencies they manage, and look at the handful of cases of those 'caught with their fingers in the till'.


If running a government was a simple as installing boilers in houses, we really wouldn't need a government. There is a bit more to it than that.



And in case you didn't notice, two Garda Commissions fell on their swords as a result of McCabe and protected disclosure legislation was brought in. That's not quite 'nothing happens'.

Flyingsnowball

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Well, we all know that you've nothing to base your estimates on, so any talk of numbers is really pointless. But look at the breadth of activity coming out of any Government department and the many agencies they manage, and look at the handful of cases of those 'caught with their fingers in the till'.


If running a government was a simple as installing boilers in houses, we really wouldn't need a government. There is a bit more to it than that.



And in case you didn't notice, two Garda Commissions fell on their swords as a result of McCabe and protected disclosure legislation was brought in. That's not quite 'nothing happens'.

Fell on their sword or moved department?

steddyeddy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So the corruption occurs in the private sector, and you therefore 'wouldn't be surprised' if it is also happening in the public sector - that's the extent of your evidence? I hope you never join the Gardai, as if you do, lots of innocent people are going to be up in Court facing charges for stuff they didn't do.





The point is that the hospital doesn't provide parking, and everything works out quite successfully regardless.


That's strange, because HSE staff aren't civil servants. But please do share details of whatever issues you reported to get the problem solved?

I've encountered exactly as is reported here and particularly the bit in bold. The taxpayer is funding a system whereby people can secure jobs for life for their unemployable relatives.

Nepotism is rampant throughout the Health Service Executive (HSE), as the Sunday Independent has exposed another group of children of senior managers being appointed to jobs which were not advertised.

Three weeks ago, this newspaper revealed that the children of four managers in a Cork office and three children of managers in Limerick were appointed to non-advertised positions despite a national moratorium on recruitment.

This weekend, the Sunday Independent has learned the children of another three senior managers in Dublin were appointed to clerical grade-three positions on a temporary basis to aid in the administration of the Back to School Scheme. However, these people are still in their posts over a year later.

The individuals involved in the Dublin office are: Eoin Tighe, son of regional manager Rita Tighe; Grace Whittle, daughter of superintendent Joseph Whittle; and Mark Mulvihill, son of senior manager Noel Mulvihill.

Health Minister Mary Harney, through her spokesman, said that she was awaiting the findings of a HSE investigation into the charges of nepotism but stressed that it was her view that public-sector norms in terms of recruitment were adhered to strictly.

The HSE confirmed that the roles were filled without external advertisement but in line with existing emergency short-term provisions and following a derogation to the public sector-wide moratorium of staff recruitment.

Fine Gael's Health spokesman James Reilly said there was only one word to describe appointments like this -- nepotism.

"It is utterly intolerable that senior managers in the HSE would see fit to nominate family members to paid positions in the HSE without advertising those positions, in an organisation already struggling for credibility."

He said it was disgraceful and a reflection of the mindset of HSE managers that they would show complete disregard for fairness and transparency by giving family members jobs without any recourse to due process.

Normal HSE recruitment policy dictates that all vacancies are filled by open competition, with posts advertised in national and local media as well as on the HSE website.

None of the 13 temporary positions as grade-three clerical officers in the HSE South region were advertised, while the Limerick posts were only advertised to existing staff.

The "vast majority" of 15 temporary Community Welfare Officers (CWOs) working in Limerick were family members and friends of HSE staff.

Among those to be appointed to jobs, which carry an annual salary of over €29,000, were Rosaleen Walsh, daughter of HSE project officer Ignatius Walsh; Killian O'Sullivan, husband of HSE CWO Geraldine O'Rourke; and Kevin Gaffney, husband of HSE CWO Anne Mulcair.

Snow Garden

Where I work, nepotism is very common for new positions, especially for the higher grades. That said, they do advertise most of the positions internally and externally but it's often a foregone conclusion. I did use a bit of pull to get my own position but I reckon I was more than qualified too.

Allinall

steddyeddy wrote: »

I've encountered exactly as is reported here and particularly the bit in bold. The taxpayer is funding a system whereby people can secure jobs for life for their unemployable relatives.

Curious as to how you know the relatives were unemployable?

Big claim to be making.

steddyeddy

Allinall wrote: »

Curious as to how you know the relatives were unemployable?

Big claim to be making.

All of the managers in one HSE office filled positions with their close relatives. If I had to rely on mammy and daddy to get a job I'd question myself.

Allinall

steddyeddy wrote: »

All of the managers in one HSE office filled positions with their close relatives. If I had to rely on mammy and daddy to get a job I'd question myself.

But no evidence that they we’re unemployable? Or that they hat to “rely” on anyone to get their job?

Maybe you’d mention some names to give credibility to your claims.

Flyingsnowball

Allinall wrote: »

But no evidence that they we’re unemployable? Or that they hat to “rely” on anyone to get their job?

Maybe you’d mention some names to give credibility to your claims.

There is four or five of you lads who keep asking for impossible to obtain evidence and threatening legal action.

How is he supposed to prove that on an Internet forum?

Edward M

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s totally wrong. The politicians may be somewhat responsible but in general they don’t micro manage these services or the day to day administration

I don't know how this will pan out now Franz, but it looks like Harris is under pressure now.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/harris-position-untenable-after-memo-revelation-on-391m-overrun-on-nch-37794953.html

VinLieger

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

There is four or five of you lads who keep asking for impossible to obtain evidence and threatening legal action.

How is he supposed to prove that on an Internet forum?

LOL nobody has threatened legal action, your getting a bit worked up on this.


Also the idea of providing evidence to back up claims on an anonymous internet forum isnt exactly new, if you've got no evidence your claims are effectively worthless

steddyeddy

Evidence that they were unemployable? In hindsight they were employed by relatives so employable with the caveat that relatives hire them. The ones I worked with were certainly incompetent.

raze_them_all_

Where do people get the idea you can't be fired in the public sector? You can. And most of these boys on the boards etc are mates with tds, no chance the tds will blame them. Our hospital I think is costing 200 odd million than the tallest building in the world

Snow Garden

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Where do people get the idea you can't be fired in the public sector? You can.

It's very very difficult. You can be the worst performer in the whole service and still keep your job. The unions will always back you up. To be fired, you nearly need to do something illegal i.e. theft, assault etc. I have never heard of anyone being fired where I worked.

In fact I have seen several times where a manager promoted a poor performing or troublesome individual in order to get rid of the person from the section/department. That means that poor performers are promoted. Think about that.

AndrewJRenko

Snow Garden wrote: »

In fact I have seen several times where a manager promoted a poor performing or troublesome individual in order to get rid of the person from the section/department. That means that poor performers are promoted. Think about that.

In what organisation do managers get to promote people? Promotions are normally done by competitions, with criteria, interview panels. In the Civil Service, all panels are organised by PAS, totally independent of the Department concerned, so the manager has no part of the promotion decision.


What organisation lets managers promote people?

Flyingsnowball

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

In what organisation do managers get to promote people? Promotions are normally done by competitions, with criteria, interview panels. In the Civil Service, all panels are organised by PAS, totally independent of the Department concerned, so the manager has no part of the promotion decision.


What organisation lets managers promote people?

Promotions are done before they decide to promote somebody. The rest is the allusion of fairness

AndrewJRenko

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

Promotions are done before they decide to promote somebody. The rest is the allusion of fairness

The 1960s are calling, they want their theories back.


This is an organisation of nearly 40,000 people. The people who organise the promotion exams having nothing to do with the day-to-day management of the service. That's a fact.


If you have any evidence to the contrary, please post details.