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Very confused with C, CE, C1, C1E, D, DE, etc

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2

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    #32
    Encouraged
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭Encouraged


    davetherave wrote: »
    "Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver"

    To drive this regular bus you would need a D licence.
    pBlzXPQ.jpg
    But you just said that a D license is NOT more than 16 passengers. This bus carries more than 16 passengers?
    davetherave wrote: »

    For example. this minibus falls into the "Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver with a maximum length not exceeding 8 metres and where the MAM1 of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg". You need a D1 licence to drive it. You can also tow a small trailer less than 750kg with that D1. If you want to tow a heavier trailer, then you need a D1E.
    If by "it" you mean the category D, then isn't that a contradiction?


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    #33
    Encouraged
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭Encouraged


    Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »
    From 9-16 a D1 licence

    From 17- whatever a bus is designed for a D licence
    The very strange thing so, is why would it say "greater than 8" in the definition for D? Wouldn't it be more normal to say greater than 16"? Did someone just pull the figure 8 out of their arse?


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    #34
    Encouraged
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭Encouraged


    Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »
    From 9-16 a D1 licence
    So what if you were carrying less than 8 passengers in a D1? Would you be fined or what?


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    #35
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Encouraged wrote: »
    The very strange thing so, is why would it say "greater than 8" in the definition for D? Wouldn't it be more normal to say greater than 16"? Did someone just pull the figure 8 out of their arse?

    A typical Volkswagen Shuttle/Ford Tourneo etc are all 8+1, the 1 being the driver of course, probably stemmed from that going back to whenever it was implemented.


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    #36
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Encouraged wrote: »
    So what if you were carrying less than 8 passengers in a D1? Would you be fined or what?

    As long as the seats are there you can’t drive it without a D1 as the capacity to carry other passengers remains.

    In order to do what you are suggesting, the seats need to be removed, the holes welded, signed off by an engineer & the CVRT


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    #37
    Encouraged
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭Encouraged


    Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »
    Everything with the E category is articulated
    Apparently not, as davetherave said
    davetherave wrote: »
    It's not articulated, it's towing weight.


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    #38
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Encouraged wrote: »
    Apparently not, as davetherave said

    I’ll rephrase, all the E categories are for trailers over 750kg, look at the E categories and you’ll see trailers in each.


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    #39
    davetherave
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭davetherave


    Encouraged wrote: »
    But you just said that a D license is NOT more than 16 passengers.

    No I didn't. You are taking it out of context. A D is more than 8 + the driver.

    For example. this minibus falls into the "Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver with a maximum length not exceeding 8 metres and where the MAM1 of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg". You need a D1 licence to drive it. You can also tow a small trailer less than 750kg with that D1. If you want to tow a heavier trailer, then you need a D1E.

    This bus carries more than 16 passengers?
    If by "it" you mean the category D, then isn't that a contradiction?

    No, it's not that fcuking hard.

    A D1 licence is a vehicle with capacity for between 8-16 plus the driver. (Minibus)
    A D licence is a vehicle with a capacity of more than 8 plus the Driver (Megabus/BusEireann/Dublin Bus)

    A D1E is a minibus pulling a trailer more than 750kg
    A DE is a normal bus pulling a trailer more than 750kg


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    #40
    Encouraged
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭Encouraged


    Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »
    I’ll rephrase, all the E categories are for trailers over 750kg, look at the E categories and you’ll see trailers in each.
    Okay, with artics I always thought of the trailer as being part of the truck, so that's why it became confusing.


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    #41
    Encouraged
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭Encouraged


    Thank you for your help in this by the way.
    davetherave wrote: »
    No I didn't. You are taking it out of context. A D is more than 8 + the driver.

    For example. this minibus falls into the "Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver
    Oh right. You see I was thinking of D, DE, D1 & D1E as four different categories. So when you said category D (thinking bus), it made me think specifically of a D bus.


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    #42
    swarlb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    Encouraged wrote: »
    Thank you for your help in this by the way.

    Oh right. You see I was thinking of D, DE, D1 & D1E as four different categories. So when you said category D (thinking bus), it made me think specifically of a D bus.

    Just do the required tests, get all the 'letter and number combinations' and you wont have to remember what they mean.


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    #43
    Encouraged
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭Encouraged


    TallGlass wrote: »
    C = Capacity 8+driver, Total MAM exceeding 3,500kg and if you want a smaller trailer less than or equal 750kg.
    So this would be a fire truck?
    TallGlass wrote: »
    CE = Trailer can now weigh more than 750kg.
    And this would be the likes of the big supervalu trucks with the big trailers?

    How much would those trailers weight by the way? I mean they're bigger than 750kg, and they can obviously be bigger than 12,000kg if they want too?

    No upper weight limit for trailers in CE, just like there's no upper passenger limit with the D licence! Strange, but I might be getting the gist. When you see a small figure (like 3,500kg) it means big, and when you see a big figure (7,500kg) it means small!


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    #44
    Encouraged
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭Encouraged


    swarlb wrote: »
    Just do the required tests, get all the 'letter and number combinations' and you wont have to remember what they mean.
    Wouldn't that involve a whole load of memory tricks?


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    #45
    swarlb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    Encouraged wrote: »
    Wouldn't that involve a whole load of memory tricks?

    No. It involved doing a series of tests, both driving and theory, very much like doing an exam in school (except for the driving bit), so if a 15 year old is capable of doing a test... well, it's not rocket science.

    In the old days it was very very simple, you got a licence to drive a car, which was a B and C I think. Then if you wanted to drive a truck you got a D, and finally if you wanted to drive a bigger truck, bus, fire engine, artic or whatever you're having yourself, you got a H, and that was it.
    When they introduce the 'pink' licences, they simply added a load of different categories. So basically an A B C D E+ covers everything, and no need to remember what any of it means, except to remember to renew it, and do the medicals as required.


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    #46
    Encouraged
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭Encouraged


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Its quite simple. One category is limited to 3500. The other is 0 to 7500 - not 3500 to 7500.
    Now that I've figured it out, I realise just how wrong what you said here is!


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    #47
    Epic Eir Epic
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭Epic Eir Epic


    What's the difference between applying for a bus learner permit and applying for a D learner permit? You can apply or the second one by having a B licence. If I have a B license, does that mean I can skip the bus learner permit and go straight to the D learner permit?


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    #48
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Epic Eir Epic wrote: »
    What's the difference between applying for a bus learner permit and applying for a D learner permit? You can apply or the second one by having a B licence. If I have a B license, does that mean I can skip the bus learner permit and go straight to the D learner permit?

    D = Bus licence
    D1 mini bus licence.

    If you only have category B then to get either of the above you need to do a theory test,2 CPC theory tests if you wish to drive professionally, A medical, driving test and practical CPC test (show & tell)


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    #49
    Epic Eir Epic
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭Epic Eir Epic


    Thanks
    Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »
    D = Bus licence
    D1 mini bus licence.

    If you only have category B then to get either of the above you need to do a theory test,2 CPC theory tests if you wish to drive professionally, A medical, driving test and practical CPC test (show & tell)
    I guess what I was trying to ask was, what is the difference between a bus learner permit and a category D learner permit?

    For one, you need to be "normally resident in Ireland" and the other you need to hold a B.


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    #50
    Problem Of Motivation
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 386 ✭✭Problem Of Motivation


    I'm confused about this question in the DTT book

    A bus is deemed to be carrying a full load of passengers if weights of how many kilograms are placed in the correct positions for the driver and each passenger?

    Answer: 65 kg

    Is that a way of saying that you can assume that each passenger is on average 65 kg?


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    #51
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,958 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Its quite simple. One category is limited to 3500. The other is 0 to 7500 - not 3500 to 7500.
    Encouraged wrote: »
    Now that I've figured it out, I realise just how wrong what you said here is!
    Please point out 'how wrong' it was.

    For someone who asked so many basic questions in this thread, I don't really think you're in a position to be coming out with statements like that.


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    #52
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,958 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Problem Of Motivation wrote: »
    I'm confused about this question in the DTT book

    A bus is deemed to be carrying a full load of passengers if weights of how many kilograms are placed in the correct positions for the driver and each passenger?

    Answer: 65 kg

    Is that a way of saying that you can assume that each passenger is on average 65 kg?
    Yes.

    (Just like in a lift it may say maximum 8 persons - 600kgs (assumes an average of 75kg per person)


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    #53
    Johny Cage
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Johny Cage


    I just passed the truck theory test but I’m a bit confused about the next step. Do I have to do case studies before applying for my learner permit or do I do the case studies after?


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    #54
    Problem Of Motivation
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 386 ✭✭Problem Of Motivation


    What does ADR stand for? As in the ADR driver training cert?


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    #55
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Problem Of Motivation wrote: »
    What does ADR stand for? As in the ADR driver training cert?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADR_(treaty)


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    #56
    Problem Of Motivation
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 386 ✭✭Problem Of Motivation


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADR_(treaty)
    I don't think it even says in there! Anyway it obviously doesn't matter really


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    #57
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Problem Of Motivation wrote: »
    I don't think it even says in there! Anyway it obviously doesn't really

    It is:
    ADR (formally, the European Agreement concerning the International Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road (ADR)) is a 1957 United Nations treaty that governs transnational transport of hazardous materials. "ADR" is derived from the French name for the treaty: Accord européen relatif au transport international des marchandises Dangereuses par Route).


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    #58
    Problem Of Motivation
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 386 ✭✭Problem Of Motivation


    I'm getting a bit confused with all the different braking systems.

    What exactly is the difference between endurance braking & exhaust braking? Exhaust breaking involves retarders and endurance braking involves resistance via the transmission to the rotation of the wheels. I also saw the mention of air brakes & hydraulic vacuum servo brakes? And then there's a mention of a load sensing valve too, which also plays a plays a part in braking. All these different types of brakes seem confusing.

    Does the driver just apply the foot brake each time? Which one braking system is used ordinarily... as in if I'm driving along and just push the brake? Would that be the air brake?


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    #59
    Problem Of Motivation
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 386 ✭✭Problem Of Motivation


    TallGlass wrote: »
    Think like this.

    A B C D is top, covers anything below it.

    1 2 are smaller and below the top root.

    E is towing. Cover this in C and you can tow in all.

    IE do a test CE, you then get BE, DE etc.. provided full licence on D.

    Do DE test youll get BE as its lighter than D, but towing weight of CE is higher so you'll not get a CE licence. (citation needed on that).

    Basic way to understand it.
    So just to be clear, all of the following can tow trailers that are less than 750 kg:

    C, C1, D & D1

    Is that correct?


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    #60
    Problem Of Motivation
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 386 ✭✭Problem Of Motivation


    TallGlass wrote: »
    Just to correct you there. You'll get a C learner, if you take a test and pass in a C1 then you'll only be allowed test for towwing a C1E.

    However. If you take a C test and pass, you can then move onto CE test.

    So CE is an artic.

    C1E would be the likes of ESB, semi truck and towing the likes of a digger or something on the back.

    DE could be Pop Star on tour mobile bus home and trailor for car or gig gear on back.
    So if you've CE you're automatically qualified for C1 & C1E?


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    #61
    Problem Of Motivation
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 386 ✭✭Problem Of Motivation


    D1E - a minibus towing a trailer greater than 750 kg. That's something I have yet to see.


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