Very confused with C, CE, C1, C1E, D, DE, etc

Encouraged

If category D is a bus, then why is there all this talk about buses towing trailers? I never see that.

And what's all this talk of category C (trucks) carrying a maximum of 8 passengers? I've never come across a truck with 8 passengers!

Take category C1E - it says it means a "combination of drawing vehicles in category C1". What i nthe name of God does that mean.

How in the name of God am I supposed to remember that you need a C1 (and not a CE) before you apply for a C1E, if I don't even know what any of them are?

Here's another thing; the statement below seems a bit misleading.

"Combination of drawing vehicles in category C1 and trailer where the MAM1 of the trailer is greater than 750 kg and where the MAM1 of the drawing vehicle and trailer combined does not exceed 12,000 kg."

Am I to picture two trailers or one? It says combination AND trailer? So is there a trailer attached to the trailer?

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Encouraged wrote: »

If category D is a bus, then why is there all this talk about buses towing trailers? I never see that.

And what's all this talk of category C (trucks) carrying a maximum of 8 passengers? I've never come across a truck with 8 passengers!

Take category C1E - it says it means a "combination of drawing vehicles in category C1". What i nthe name of God does that mean.

How in the name of God am I supposed to remember that you need a C1 (and not a CE) before you apply for a C1E, if I don't even know what any of them are?

Buses tow trailers all the time. Just look at Helga in her tri axle from Germany doing the ring of Kerry.

C1E is a combination of truck and trailer up to 12 ton

Victor

Encouraged wrote: »

And what's all this talk of category C (trucks) carrying a maximum of 8 passengers? I've never come across a truck with 8 passengers!

It's "a maximum of 8 passengers". Many fire appliances and some vehicles used by utility companies would hold 6-8 passengers.

How in the name of God am I supposed to remember that you need a C1 (and not a CE) before you apply for a C1E, if I don't even know what any of them are?

I presume you don't need to remember it - you just need to work it out once.

Bands on tour often have a coach with a trailer.

TallGlass

Think like this.

A B C D is top, covers anything below it.

1 2 are smaller and below the top root.

E is towing. Cover this in C and you can tow in all.

IE do a test CE, you then get BE, DE etc.. provided full licence on D.

Do DE test youll get BE as its lighter than D, but towing weight of CE is higher so you'll not get a CE licence. (citation needed on that).

Basic way to understand it.

donkey balls

You won't normally see Irish coach companies pulling trailers, But a lot of German and Austrian companies do, As for doing a C1E better off to do the CE license.
More scope for work better opportunities etc.

TallGlass

Also. You might not see a C with capacity for 8 people. However C1 is fairly popular, service crews, fire bridge appliances, ambulances would all carry 8.

To be honest, for the effort of the C1 your better off going for C.

TallGlass

Encouraged wrote:

How in the name of God am I supposed to remember that you need a C1 (and not a CE) before you apply for a C1E, if I don't even know what any of them are?

Just to correct you there. You'll get a C learner, if you take a test and pass in a C1 then you'll only be allowed test for towwing a C1E.

However. If you take a C test and pass, you can then move onto CE test.

So CE is an artic.

C1E would be the likes of ESB, semi truck and towing the likes of a digger or something on the back.

DE could be Pop Star on tour mobile bus home and trailor for car or gig gear on back.

Stephen15

donkey balls wrote: »

You won't normally see Irish coach companies pulling trailers, But a lot of German and Austrian companies do, As for doing a C1E better off to do the CE license.
More scope for work better opportunities etc.

You don't see coaches hauling trailers very often at all in Ireland it is done on the continent regularly but it's rare to see a coach with a trailer in Ireland. I do see minibuses hauling trailers though fro time to time usually carrying kayaking or surfing equipment. Another you see on the continent that you don't see very often in Ireland is road trains.

Encouraged

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

Buses tow trailers all the time. Just look at Helga in her tri axle from Germany doing the ring of Kerry.

I cannot find one single google image of a bus towing a trailer

Encouraged

Thank you for your reply

TallGlass wrote: »

1 2 are smaller and below the top root.

This was the only part I didn't get.

As another question, regarding the difference between C and C1:

How come sometimes it says "having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3,500 kg",

and other times it says

"having a maximum authorised mass weight not exceeding 7,500 kg"

Why can't they just have it say a maximum authorised mass of between 3,500 kg and 7,500 kg

Encouraged

TallGlass wrote: »

Just to correct you there. You'll get a C learner, if you take a test and pass in a C1 then you'll only be allowed test for towwing a C1E.

However. If you take a C test and pass, you can then move onto CE test.

So CE is an artic.

And apparently artics can tow trailers too?

TallGlass wrote: »

DE could be Pop Star on tour mobile bus home and trailer for car or gig gear on back.

Elton John could be in one of those.

Encouraged

TallGlass wrote: »

So CE is an artic.

So if CE is artic, does that mean C1E is artic too?

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Encouraged wrote: »

So if CE is artic, does that mean C1E is artic too?

Everything with the E category is articulated

Phileas Frog

Stop feeding the troll lads and lassies.

Wishbone Ash

Encouraged wrote: »

Thank you for your replyThis was the only part I didn't get.

As another question, regarding the difference between C and C1:

How come sometimes it says "having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3,500 kg",

and other times it says

"having a maximum authorised mass weight not exceeding 7,500 kg"

Why can't they just have it say a maximum authorised mass of between 3,500 kg and 7,500 kg

Its quite simple. One category is limited to 3500. The other is 0 to 7500 - not 3500 to 7500.

Wishbone Ash

Encouraged wrote: »

If category D is a bus, then why is there all this talk about buses towing trailers? I never see that.

And what's all this talk of category C (trucks) carrying a maximum of 8 passengers? I've never see?

You dont get out much?
I see coaches with trailers regularly especially around airports. Some trucks carry several passengers - does your local fire tender arrive with a driver only? Or your refuse truck?

TallGlass

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Stop feeding the troll lads and lassies.

True, still valid information all the same!

Have to say, it's a weird topic to troll over :pac:

TallGlass

Encouraged wrote: »

So if CE is artic, does that mean C1E is artic too?

E = Trailer greater than 750kg

C = Capacity 8+driver, Total MAM exceeding 3,500kg and if you want a smaller trailer less than or equal 750kg.

CE = Trailer can now weigh more than 750kg.

C1 = Capacity 8+driver, Total MAM not exceeding 7,500kg and if you want a smaller trailer less than or equal 750kg.

C1E = Same as C1, with max 12,000kg for trailer.

C1E = Covers trailers in B, where the trailer is more than 3,500kg but no more than 12,000kg in total including car.

D = Capacity 8+, Small trailer less than or equal 750kg.

DE = Same as D with a trailer now greater than 750kg.

D1 = Limited to 16 total, limited to 8M total size, and trailer less than or equal 750kg.

D1E = Same as D1 with trailer now greater than 750kg

Encouraged

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Its quite simple. One category (C) is limited to 3500.

For C, it says "having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3,500 kg". So that would actually seem to suggest that it is limited to 3500-7500.

Encouraged

TallGlass wrote: »

D1 = Limited to 16 total, limited to 8M total size, and trailer less than or equal 750kg.

D1E = Same as D1 with trailer now greater than 750kg

But how much do those big buses sit? It's a lot more than 16 passengers. What licence does one need for one of those?

AntiClimax

TallGlass wrote: »

D1 = Limited to 16 total, limited to 8M total size, and trailer less than or equal 750kg.

D1E = Same as D1 with trailer now greater than 750kg

It's actually 16 + the driver

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Encouraged wrote: »

But how much do those big buses sit? It's a lot more than 16 passengers. What licence does one need for one of those?

From 9-16 a D1 licence

From 17- whatever a bus is designed for a D licence

Encouraged

TallGlass wrote: »

E is towing. Cover this in C and you can tow in all.

But if E also means articulated, as another poster said, then does this mean that the DE bus is articulated? & therefore it would be an articulated bus that could tow a trailer?

I don't mean to sound like immature with all these questions. I was always the girl at the front of class being laughed at!

Encouraged

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

From 9-16 a D1 licence

From 17- whatever a bus is designed for a D licence

Ah right. I see now.

That was kind of a surprise to me seeing as you need D before you can apply for a DE. I'd have thought it would've been the other way around, if driving more passengers requires more responsibility.

Encouraged

Here's the thing though; the statement below seems a bit misleading.

"C1E = Combination of drawing vehicles in category C1 and trailer where the MAM1 of the trailer is greater than 750 kg and where the MAM1 of the drawing vehicle and trailer combined does not exceed 12,000 kg."

Am I to picture two trailers or one? It says combination AND trailer? So is there a trailer attached to the trailer?

davetherave

Encouraged wrote: »

But if E also means articulated, as another poster said, then does this mean that the DE bus is articulated? & therefore it would be an articulated bus that could tow a trailer?

I don't mean to sound like immature with all these questions. I was always the girl at the front of class being laughed at!

It's not articulated, it's towing weight. When you want to use a vehicle to tow a trailer more the 750kg then you need for example a BE, or a C1E or a DE.

For example. this minibus falls into the "Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver with a maximum length not exceeding 8 metres and where the MAM1 of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg". You need a D1 licence to drive it. You can also tow a small trailer less than 750kg with that D1. If you want to tow a heavier trailer, then you need a D1E.


To drive this regular bus you would need a D licence.


To a similar bus with a trailer you would need a DE licence.

Encouraged wrote: »

Here's the thing though; the statement below seems a bit misleading.

"C1E = Combination of drawing vehicles in category C1 and trailer where the MAM1 of the trailer is greater than 750 kg and where the MAM1 of the drawing vehicle and trailer combined does not exceed 12,000 kg."

Am I to picture two trailers or one? It says combination AND trailer? So is there a trailer attached to the trailer?

It's the combination of a C1 Vehicle, (which is a Goods vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying the Driver + 8), AND a trailer greater than 750Kg

Stephen15

Encouraged wrote: »

But if E also means articulated, as another poster said, then does this mean that the DE bus is articulated? & therefore it would be an articulated bus that could tow a trailer?

Articulated buses are covered are covered by a regular licence DB used to have about 20 and Dublin Coach and Aircoach have a number for carpark shuttle in the airport but I don't think any of their drivers have DE licences just a regular D.

Wishbone Ash

Stephen15 wrote: »

Articulated buses are covered are covered by a regular licence DB used to have about 20 and Dublin Coach and Aircoach have a number for carpark shuttle in the airport but I don't think any of their drivers have DE licences just a regular D.

They only require an ordinary D because the 'trailer' is not detachable.

Although Aircoach drivers on the articulated buses don't need a DE, a few of them have it anyway by default with the CE.

Wishbone Ash

Encouraged wrote: »

Here's the thing though; the statement below seems a bit misleading.

"C1E = Combination of drawing vehicles in category C1 and trailer where the MAM1 of the trailer is greater than 750 kg and where the MAM1 of the drawing vehicle and trailer combined does not exceed 12,000 kg."

Am I to picture two trailers or one? It says combination AND trailer? So is there a trailer attached to the trailer?

Read it like this:

1. a Combination of
2. a drawing vehicle in C1
3. and a trailer

TallGlass

Are the bendy buses DE?

Stephen15

TallGlass wrote: »

Are the bendy buses DE?

No regular D

Encouraged

davetherave wrote: »

"Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver"

To drive this regular bus you would need a D licence.

But you just said that a D license is NOT more than 16 passengers. This bus carries more than 16 passengers?

davetherave wrote: »

For example. this minibus falls into the "Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver with a maximum length not exceeding 8 metres and where the MAM1 of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg". You need a D1 licence to drive it. You can also tow a small trailer less than 750kg with that D1. If you want to tow a heavier trailer, then you need a D1E.

If by "it" you mean the category D, then isn't that a contradiction?

Encouraged

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

From 9-16 a D1 licence

From 17- whatever a bus is designed for a D licence

The very strange thing so, is why would it say "greater than 8" in the definition for D? Wouldn't it be more normal to say greater than 16"? Did someone just pull the figure 8 out of their arse?

Encouraged

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

From 9-16 a D1 licence

So what if you were carrying less than 8 passengers in a D1? Would you be fined or what?

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Encouraged wrote: »

The very strange thing so, is why would it say "greater than 8" in the definition for D? Wouldn't it be more normal to say greater than 16"? Did someone just pull the figure 8 out of their arse?

A typical Volkswagen Shuttle/Ford Tourneo etc are all 8+1, the 1 being the driver of course, probably stemmed from that going back to whenever it was implemented.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Encouraged wrote: »

So what if you were carrying less than 8 passengers in a D1? Would you be fined or what?

As long as the seats are there you can’t drive it without a D1 as the capacity to carry other passengers remains.

In order to do what you are suggesting, the seats need to be removed, the holes welded, signed off by an engineer & the CVRT

Encouraged

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

Everything with the E category is articulated

Apparently not, as davetherave said

davetherave wrote: »

It's not articulated, it's towing weight.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Encouraged wrote: »

Apparently not, as davetherave said

I’ll rephrase, all the E categories are for trailers over 750kg, look at the E categories and you’ll see trailers in each.

davetherave

Encouraged wrote: »

But you just said that a D license is NOT more than 16 passengers.

No I didn't. You are taking it out of context. A D is more than 8 + the driver.

For example. this minibus falls into the "Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver with a maximum length not exceeding 8 metres and where the MAM1 of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg". You need a D1 licence to drive it. You can also tow a small trailer less than 750kg with that D1. If you want to tow a heavier trailer, then you need a D1E.

This bus carries more than 16 passengers?
If by "it" you mean the category D, then isn't that a contradiction?

No, it's not that fcuking hard.

A D1 licence is a vehicle with capacity for between 8-16 plus the driver. (Minibus)
A D licence is a vehicle with a capacity of more than 8 plus the Driver (Megabus/BusEireann/Dublin Bus)

A D1E is a minibus pulling a trailer more than 750kg
A DE is a normal bus pulling a trailer more than 750kg

Encouraged

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

I’ll rephrase, all the E categories are for trailers over 750kg, look at the E categories and you’ll see trailers in each.

Okay, with artics I always thought of the trailer as being part of the truck, so that's why it became confusing.

Encouraged

Thank you for your help in this by the way.

davetherave wrote: »

No I didn't. You are taking it out of context. A D is more than 8 + the driver.

For example. this minibus falls into the "Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver

Oh right. You see I was thinking of D, DE, D1 & D1E as four different categories. So when you said category D (thinking bus), it made me think specifically of a D bus.

swarlb

Encouraged wrote: »

Thank you for your help in this by the way.

Oh right. You see I was thinking of D, DE, D1 & D1E as four different categories. So when you said category D (thinking bus), it made me think specifically of a D bus.

Just do the required tests, get all the 'letter and number combinations' and you wont have to remember what they mean.

Encouraged

TallGlass wrote: »

C = Capacity 8+driver, Total MAM exceeding 3,500kg and if you want a smaller trailer less than or equal 750kg.

So this would be a fire truck?

TallGlass wrote: »

CE = Trailer can now weigh more than 750kg.

And this would be the likes of the big supervalu trucks with the big trailers?

How much would those trailers weight by the way? I mean they're bigger than 750kg, and they can obviously be bigger than 12,000kg if they want too?

No upper weight limit for trailers in CE, just like there's no upper passenger limit with the D licence! Strange, but I might be getting the gist. When you see a small figure (like 3,500kg) it means big, and when you see a big figure (7,500kg) it means small!

Encouraged

swarlb wrote: »

Just do the required tests, get all the 'letter and number combinations' and you wont have to remember what they mean.

Wouldn't that involve a whole load of memory tricks?

swarlb

Encouraged wrote: »

Wouldn't that involve a whole load of memory tricks?

No. It involved doing a series of tests, both driving and theory, very much like doing an exam in school (except for the driving bit), so if a 15 year old is capable of doing a test... well, it's not rocket science.

In the old days it was very very simple, you got a licence to drive a car, which was a B and C I think. Then if you wanted to drive a truck you got a D, and finally if you wanted to drive a bigger truck, bus, fire engine, artic or whatever you're having yourself, you got a H, and that was it.
When they introduce the 'pink' licences, they simply added a load of different categories. So basically an A B C D E+ covers everything, and no need to remember what any of it means, except to remember to renew it, and do the medicals as required.

Encouraged

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Its quite simple. One category is limited to 3500. The other is 0 to 7500 - not 3500 to 7500.

Now that I've figured it out, I realise just how wrong what you said here is!

Epic Eir Epic

What's the difference between applying for a bus learner permit and applying for a D learner permit? You can apply or the second one by having a B licence. If I have a B license, does that mean I can skip the bus learner permit and go straight to the D learner permit?

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Epic Eir Epic wrote: »

What's the difference between applying for a bus learner permit and applying for a D learner permit? You can apply or the second one by having a B licence. If I have a B license, does that mean I can skip the bus learner permit and go straight to the D learner permit?

D = Bus licence
D1 mini bus licence.

If you only have category B then to get either of the above you need to do a theory test,2 CPC theory tests if you wish to drive professionally, A medical, driving test and practical CPC test (show & tell)

Epic Eir Epic

Thanks

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

D = Bus licence
D1 mini bus licence.

If you only have category B then to get either of the above you need to do a theory test,2 CPC theory tests if you wish to drive professionally, A medical, driving test and practical CPC test (show & tell)

I guess what I was trying to ask was, what is the difference between a bus learner permit and a category D learner permit?

For one, you need to be "normally resident in Ireland" and the other you need to hold a B.

Problem Of Motivation

I'm confused about this question in the DTT book

A bus is deemed to be carrying a full load of passengers if weights of how many kilograms are placed in the correct positions for the driver and each passenger?

Answer: 65 kg

Is that a way of saying that you can assume that each passenger is on average 65 kg?

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Its quite simple. One category is limited to 3500. The other is 0 to 7500 - not 3500 to 7500.

Encouraged wrote: »

Now that I've figured it out, I realise just how wrong what you said here is!

Please point out 'how wrong' it was.

For someone who asked so many basic questions in this thread, I don't really think you're in a position to be coming out with statements like that.