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Very confused with C, CE, C1, C1E, D, DE, etc

Encouraged

If category D is a bus, then why is there all this talk about buses towing trailers? I never see that.

And what's all this talk of category C (trucks) carrying a maximum of 8 passengers? I've never come across a truck with 8 passengers!

Take category C1E - it says it means a "combination of drawing vehicles in category C1". What i nthe name of God does that mean.

How in the name of God am I supposed to remember that you need a C1 (and not a CE) before you apply for a C1E, if I don't even know what any of them are?

Here's another thing; the statement below seems a bit misleading.

"Combination of drawing vehicles in category C1 and trailer where the MAM1 of the trailer is greater than 750 kg and where the MAM1 of the drawing vehicle and trailer combined does not exceed 12,000 kg."

Am I to picture two trailers or one? It says combination AND trailer? So is there a trailer attached to the trailer?

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Problem Of Motivation

Here's a question in the book I'm puzzled with!

A category D1 permits the holder to drive a vehicle which can carry how many passengers?: answer 9-16 passengers

That seems like a weird answer to me. Where did they get the '9' from? Couldn't they just say 'no more than 16 passengers?

Problem Of Motivation

D1E - a minibus towing a trailer greater than 750 kg. That's something I have yet to see.

Problem Of Motivation

TallGlass wrote: »

Just to correct you there. You'll get a C learner, if you take a test and pass in a C1 then you'll only be allowed test for towwing a C1E.

However. If you take a C test and pass, you can then move onto CE test.

So CE is an artic.

C1E would be the likes of ESB, semi truck and towing the likes of a digger or something on the back.

DE could be Pop Star on tour mobile bus home and trailor for car or gig gear on back.

So if you've CE you're automatically qualified for C1 & C1E?

Problem Of Motivation

TallGlass wrote: »

Think like this.

A B C D is top, covers anything below it.

1 2 are smaller and below the top root.

E is towing. Cover this in C and you can tow in all.

IE do a test CE, you then get BE, DE etc.. provided full licence on D.

Do DE test youll get BE as its lighter than D, but towing weight of CE is higher so you'll not get a CE licence. (citation needed on that).

Basic way to understand it.

So just to be clear, all of the following can tow trailers that are less than 750 kg:

C, C1, D & D1

Is that correct?

Problem Of Motivation

I'm getting a bit confused with all the different braking systems.

What exactly is the difference between endurance braking & exhaust braking? Exhaust breaking involves retarders and endurance braking involves resistance via the transmission to the rotation of the wheels. I also saw the mention of air brakes & hydraulic vacuum servo brakes? And then there's a mention of a load sensing valve too, which also plays a plays a part in braking. All these different types of brakes seem confusing.

Does the driver just apply the foot brake each time? Which one braking system is used ordinarily... as in if I'm driving along and just push the brake? Would that be the air brake?

Cork Trucker

Problem Of Motivation wrote: »

I don't think it even says in there! Anyway it obviously doesn't really

It is:

ADR (formally, the European Agreement concerning the International Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road (ADR)) is a 1957 United Nations treaty that governs transnational transport of hazardous materials. "ADR" is derived from the French name for the treaty: Accord européen relatif au transport international des marchandises Dangereuses par Route).

Problem Of Motivation

Cork Trucker wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADR_(treaty)

I don't think it even says in there! Anyway it obviously doesn't matter really

Cork Trucker

Problem Of Motivation wrote: »

What does ADR stand for? As in the ADR driver training cert?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADR_(treaty)

Problem Of Motivation

What does ADR stand for? As in the ADR driver training cert?

Johny Cage

I just passed the truck theory test but I’m a bit confused about the next step. Do I have to do case studies before applying for my learner permit or do I do the case studies after?

Wishbone Ash

Problem Of Motivation wrote: »

I'm confused about this question in the DTT book

A bus is deemed to be carrying a full load of passengers if weights of how many kilograms are placed in the correct positions for the driver and each passenger?

Answer: 65 kg

Is that a way of saying that you can assume that each passenger is on average 65 kg?

Yes.

(Just like in a lift it may say maximum 8 persons - 600kgs (assumes an average of 75kg per person)

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Its quite simple. One category is limited to 3500. The other is 0 to 7500 - not 3500 to 7500.

Encouraged wrote: »

Now that I've figured it out, I realise just how wrong what you said here is!

Please point out 'how wrong' it was.

For someone who asked so many basic questions in this thread, I don't really think you're in a position to be coming out with statements like that.

Problem Of Motivation

I'm confused about this question in the DTT book

A bus is deemed to be carrying a full load of passengers if weights of how many kilograms are placed in the correct positions for the driver and each passenger?

Answer: 65 kg

Is that a way of saying that you can assume that each passenger is on average 65 kg?

Epic Eir Epic

Thanks

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

D = Bus licence
D1 mini bus licence.

If you only have category B then to get either of the above you need to do a theory test,2 CPC theory tests if you wish to drive professionally, A medical, driving test and practical CPC test (show & tell)

I guess what I was trying to ask was, what is the difference between a bus learner permit and a category D learner permit?

For one, you need to be "normally resident in Ireland" and the other you need to hold a B.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Epic Eir Epic wrote: »

What's the difference between applying for a bus learner permit and applying for a D learner permit? You can apply or the second one by having a B licence. If I have a B license, does that mean I can skip the bus learner permit and go straight to the D learner permit?

D = Bus licence
D1 mini bus licence.

If you only have category B then to get either of the above you need to do a theory test,2 CPC theory tests if you wish to drive professionally, A medical, driving test and practical CPC test (show & tell)

Epic Eir Epic

What's the difference between applying for a bus learner permit and applying for a D learner permit? You can apply or the second one by having a B licence. If I have a B license, does that mean I can skip the bus learner permit and go straight to the D learner permit?

Encouraged

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Its quite simple. One category is limited to 3500. The other is 0 to 7500 - not 3500 to 7500.

Now that I've figured it out, I realise just how wrong what you said here is!

swarlb

Encouraged wrote: »

Wouldn't that involve a whole load of memory tricks?

No. It involved doing a series of tests, both driving and theory, very much like doing an exam in school (except for the driving bit), so if a 15 year old is capable of doing a test... well, it's not rocket science.

In the old days it was very very simple, you got a licence to drive a car, which was a B and C I think. Then if you wanted to drive a truck you got a D, and finally if you wanted to drive a bigger truck, bus, fire engine, artic or whatever you're having yourself, you got a H, and that was it.
When they introduce the 'pink' licences, they simply added a load of different categories. So basically an A B C D E+ covers everything, and no need to remember what any of it means, except to remember to renew it, and do the medicals as required.

Encouraged

swarlb wrote: »

Just do the required tests, get all the 'letter and number combinations' and you wont have to remember what they mean.

Wouldn't that involve a whole load of memory tricks?

Encouraged

TallGlass wrote: »

C = Capacity 8+driver, Total MAM exceeding 3,500kg and if you want a smaller trailer less than or equal 750kg.

So this would be a fire truck?

TallGlass wrote: »

CE = Trailer can now weigh more than 750kg.

And this would be the likes of the big supervalu trucks with the big trailers?

How much would those trailers weight by the way? I mean they're bigger than 750kg, and they can obviously be bigger than 12,000kg if they want too?

No upper weight limit for trailers in CE, just like there's no upper passenger limit with the D licence! Strange, but I might be getting the gist. When you see a small figure (like 3,500kg) it means big, and when you see a big figure (7,500kg) it means small!

swarlb

Encouraged wrote: »

Thank you for your help in this by the way.

Oh right. You see I was thinking of D, DE, D1 & D1E as four different categories. So when you said category D (thinking bus), it made me think specifically of a D bus.

Just do the required tests, get all the 'letter and number combinations' and you wont have to remember what they mean.

Encouraged

Thank you for your help in this by the way.

davetherave wrote: »

No I didn't. You are taking it out of context. A D is more than 8 + the driver.

For example. this minibus falls into the "Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver

Oh right. You see I was thinking of D, DE, D1 & D1E as four different categories. So when you said category D (thinking bus), it made me think specifically of a D bus.

Encouraged

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

I’ll rephrase, all the E categories are for trailers over 750kg, look at the E categories and you’ll see trailers in each.

Okay, with artics I always thought of the trailer as being part of the truck, so that's why it became confusing.

davetherave

Encouraged wrote: »

But you just said that a D license is NOT more than 16 passengers.

No I didn't. You are taking it out of context. A D is more than 8 + the driver.

For example. this minibus falls into the "Vehicles in category D designed and constructed for the carriage of not more than sixteen passengers in addition to the driver with a maximum length not exceeding 8 metres and where the MAM1 of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg". You need a D1 licence to drive it. You can also tow a small trailer less than 750kg with that D1. If you want to tow a heavier trailer, then you need a D1E.

This bus carries more than 16 passengers?
If by "it" you mean the category D, then isn't that a contradiction?

No, it's not that fcuking hard.

A D1 licence is a vehicle with capacity for between 8-16 plus the driver. (Minibus)
A D licence is a vehicle with a capacity of more than 8 plus the Driver (Megabus/BusEireann/Dublin Bus)

A D1E is a minibus pulling a trailer more than 750kg
A DE is a normal bus pulling a trailer more than 750kg

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Encouraged wrote: »

Apparently not, as davetherave said

I’ll rephrase, all the E categories are for trailers over 750kg, look at the E categories and you’ll see trailers in each.

Encouraged

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

Everything with the E category is articulated

Apparently not, as davetherave said

davetherave wrote: »

It's not articulated, it's towing weight.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Encouraged wrote: »

So what if you were carrying less than 8 passengers in a D1? Would you be fined or what?

As long as the seats are there you can’t drive it without a D1 as the capacity to carry other passengers remains.

In order to do what you are suggesting, the seats need to be removed, the holes welded, signed off by an engineer & the CVRT

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Encouraged wrote: »

The very strange thing so, is why would it say "greater than 8" in the definition for D? Wouldn't it be more normal to say greater than 16"? Did someone just pull the figure 8 out of their arse?

A typical Volkswagen Shuttle/Ford Tourneo etc are all 8+1, the 1 being the driver of course, probably stemmed from that going back to whenever it was implemented.

Encouraged

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

From 9-16 a D1 licence

So what if you were carrying less than 8 passengers in a D1? Would you be fined or what?

Encouraged

Violet Tangy Fort wrote: »

From 9-16 a D1 licence

From 17- whatever a bus is designed for a D licence

The very strange thing so, is why would it say "greater than 8" in the definition for D? Wouldn't it be more normal to say greater than 16"? Did someone just pull the figure 8 out of their arse?