Hurray for Europe! New Bank Holiday proposed

valoren

How about reducing the working week in the EU states to 4 days a week.
Take the monday away. Three day weekends.
It could be part of an initiative to combat climate change.
Less emissions from travelling to work, less energy required to power buildings.

I'd much rather work an hour earlier and work an hour later 4 days per week and have an extra day off.
Those extra 8 hours would allow for covering the Mondays work.

topper75

Thomas_IV wrote: »

Europe is the better future for us all, nationalism is the wrong way back into a past which no-one in his right mind would ever want to return.

Sounds like a pretty dodgy principle to follow.
Why not take it further and tie our lot in with the Chinese and Russians? Gulags, single time zone etc.

The EU was a trading block. A trading block that was in our interests. It is evidently trying to become something else - a federal political entity. We need to resist this - not embrace it. We are far better off as a sovereign neutral nation. The Easter proclamation should be a guiding star on this. We should not let gallant allies become political overlords.

ArchXStanton

topper75 wrote: »

Sounds like a pretty dodgy principle to follow.
Why not take it further and tie our lot in with the Chinese and Russians? Gulags, single time zone etc.

The EU was a trading block. A trading block that was in our interests. It is evidently trying to become something else - a federal political entity. We need to resist this - not embrace it. We are far better off as a sovereign neutral nation. The Easter proclamation should be a guiding star on this. We should not let gallant allies become political overlords.

If the EU respected democracy it wouldn't exist in its current form, through clever politicking and stealth we have the monstrosity that eats up countries and craps out bureaucracy. I reiterate it again, that under no circumstances should these clowns have control of an army, yesterday we had the EU parliament urging countries to recognise Guaido as president of Venezuela, regardless of what you think of Maduro, its really none of their business. It won't be long before this army is sent on its first overseas mission. Project of peace my arse

Hotblack Desiato

topper75 wrote: »

The EU was a trading block.

It's been much more than a trading bloc for nearly 30 years now. Keep up.

It is evidently trying to become something else - a federal political entity.

"Ever closer union" - Treaty of Rome, 1958

We need to resist this - not embrace it.

Why?

We are far better off as a sovereign neutral nation.

We're still sovereign and still neutral and will still be both in a federal Europe.

The Easter proclamation should be a guiding star on this.

Why should a document written by a tiny bunch of jesus freaks with bloodlust determine the course of a nation over 100 years later? The proclamation has nothing whatsoever to do with the nation we live in. The republic it proclaimed didn't last a week.

We should not let gallant allies become political overlords.

Paranoid bullsh*t.

Hotblack Desiato

ArchXStanton wrote: »

yesterday we had the EU parliament urging countries to recognise Guaido as president of Venezuela

So what. It's meaningless. Same as when Dublin City Council passes a motion about something to do with Palestinians.

conorhal

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So what. It's meaningless. Same as when Dublin City Council passes a motion about something to do with Palestinians.

And what does that tell you about the whitless fools in charge that they're as substanceless and full of hot air as DCC?

You're the one with a rather scary, ideologically fervant and creepy ultra-nationalist agenda, it just happens to be regards the EU.

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

We're still sovereign and still neutral and will still be both in a federal Europe.

In the same way that Bavaria and Texas are sovereign and neutral?

Hotblack Desiato

conorhal wrote: »

And what does that tell you about the whitless fools in charge that they're as substanceless and full of hot air as DCC?

It tells me that they need to be given more powers, they have too much time on their hands atm. Any parliament worthy of the name needs to have the power to initiate legislation, at the moment only the Commission can do that.

You're the one with a rather scary, ideologically fervant and creepy ultra-nationalist agenda, it just happens to be regards the EU.

lol. paranoia alert. EU has been and continues to be the best thing that has ever happened to this country. Some people are just too blinkered to see it or too proud to admit it.

Can you point out which of my posts triggered you into saying I have a "rather scary, ideologically fervant and creepy ultra-nationalist agenda" ? It's BS.

Hotblack Desiato

Aegir wrote: »

In the same way that Bavaria and Texas are sovereign and neutral?

Nope. Try again. The EU is a union of sovereign states, the USA or FRG are not.

recyclebin

Trust the cranks to turn an extra day off into an argument.

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Nope. Try again. The EU is a union of sovereign states, the USA or FRG are not.

then why did you say Federal Europe?

The EU is either a Union of sovereign states, or it is Federal.

topper75

Thomas_IV wrote: »

... culturally I am also European ...

What could that possibly even mean?

Do you speak Hungarian, eat sauerkraut, and burn turf in your fireplace?

The trading block was a good idea. Every other layer they try to impose is bogus.

conorhal

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It tells me that they need to be given more powers, they have too much time on their hands atm. Any parliament worthy of the name needs to have the power to initiate legislation, at the moment only the Commission can do that.

To do what? Start actual wars rather then just posturing? Yeah, that'll work out well. When are we going into venezuela so? :pac:

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

lol. paranoia alert. EU has been and continues to be the best thing that has ever happened to this country. Some people are just too blinkered to see it or too proud to admit it.

Can you point out which of my posts triggered you into saying I have a "rather scary, ideologically fervant and creepy ultra-nationalist agenda" ? It's BS.

Could it be that you present the near religious fervour for the ‘EU project’ of a complete zealot, which is the uncritical thinking of a simpleton?


The fact that 'ah, sure they've been good for us in the past', is no guarantee that holds true in perpetuity into the future (you need only see my post in this thread on bank bonds and vulture funds, perhaps you could offer up some laughable spin on how a directive to prevent national governments regulating vulture funds is a good thing?).

topper75

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's been much more than a trading bloc for nearly 30 years now. Keep up.

Yeah I said was, past tense. Sadly.

"Ever closer union" - Treaty of Rome, 1958

through trade cooperation perhaps, not diktats from a bureaucracy.


Why?
because we are an independent nation


We're still sovereign and still neutral and will still be both in a federal Europe.
sovereignty is has been continually eroded since we joined in 73



Why should a document written by a tiny bunch of jesus freaks with bloodlust determine the course of a nation over 100 years later? The proclamation has nothing whatsoever to do with the nation we live in. The republic it proclaimed didn't last a week.
true colours on show there - such saltiness against being Irish - could emigration help your condition?



Paranoid bullsh*t.
do you read the pronouncements of Merkel and Macron at all?

Gee - you are really sore about this Europe thing. I can see through it. The emperor has no clothes. Give us as many days off as you like.

topper75

conorhal wrote: »

The fact that 'ah, sure they've been good for us in the past'

Have they even though?

That free lunch-believing Eddie Hobbes think will be the ruination of our land.

You don't get structural funds and subsidies gratis over the long game. You just don't, and you don't need a doctorate in economics to see this.

seamus

topper75 wrote: »

Have they even though?

That free lunch-believing Eddie Hobbes think will be the ruination of our land.

You don't get structural funds and subsidies gratis over the long game. You just don't, and you don't need a doctorate in economics to see this.

That implies there's a witch waiting to come back one day to knock on the door and ask for our first-born child.

You're right, in the long game you don't get these things free. Eventually we will very much be a heavy net contributor into the EU like Germany, France and Holland.

Since the purpose of EU funds is to share the wealth and finance social and infrastructure projects across the union, I don't see the problem.

It's been shown that even with big net contributors, they benefit enormously from the centralisation of funding - large expensive projects like motorways and hospitals are frequently co-funded by the EU, and would not otherwise happen without it.

4068ac1elhodqr

seamus wrote: »

You're right, in the long game you don't get these things free. Eventually we will very much be a heavy net contributor into the EU like Germany, France and Holland.

Agree, and with another six or so countries set to join (all with 1/2 the average German GDP-PP), there will be additional wallet opening to come.

Hotblack Desiato

Aegir wrote: »

then why did you say Federal Europe?

The EU is either a Union of sovereign states, or it is Federal.

There are different models of federalism.

Hotblack Desiato

conorhal wrote: »

To do what? Start actual wars rather then just posturing?

You are being ridiculous.

Could it be that you present the near religious fervour for the ‘EU project’ of a complete zealot, which is the uncritical thinking of a simpleton?

When you're spouting personal abuse it means you have lost the argument already.

The fact that 'ah, sure they've been good for us in the past', is no guarantee that holds true in perpetuity into the future

We can leave at any time, as the UK is doing. It would be a crazy thing to do, but we could do it if we wanted.

Hotblack Desiato

June Lemon Misogynist wrote: »

Agree, and with another six or so countries set to join (all with 1/2 the average German GDP-PP), there will be additional wallet opening to come.

If the six EEC nations had had that attitude in 1972 we'd never have been let in.

ArchXStanton

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Nope. Try again. The EU is a union of sovereign states, the USA or FRG are not.

"I told Finnish Prime Minister Juha Sipilä that I remember very well my first visit to his country and the reindeer that was on the menu. But on a more serious note, I also stressed the need for a new Eurozone governance, a European army and a single European digital regulator. - bucktooth federalist Guy Verhofstadt

So which is it? National governance or governance from Brussels that no one was asked about or to vote on, smells like empire building 101

Hotblack Desiato

ArchXStanton wrote: »

"I told Finnish Prime Minister Juha Sipilhat I remember very well my first visit to his country and the reindeer that was on the menu. But on a more serious note, I also stressed the need for a new Eurozone governance, a European army and a single European digital regulator. - bucktooth federalist Guy Verhofstadt

So which is it? National governance or governance from Brussels that no one was asked about or to vote on, smells like empire building 101

None of those things can happen unless the member states agree that they should happen.

Who is "Brussels" anyway?
- The MEPs we elect directly
- The foreign ministers of the national governments, which we elect indirectly
- The prime ministers of the national governments, which we elect indirectly
- The Commissioners, appointed by the national prime ministers

Hotblack Desiato

topper75 wrote: »

Gee - you are really sore about this Europe thing. I can see through it. The emperor has no clothes. Give us as many days off as you like.

No, you're the one who is sore and complaining, I'm mostly quite happy with the status quo thanks.

The people who claim to be able to see the things that nobody else can see ('emperor has no clothes') are almost invariably wrong, they are seeing things which are not there or are interpreting wrongly what they do see. It's an entirely juvenile style of argument anyway, "I know everyone else disagrees with me but I'm right and I know I am because I'm great" is in effect what you're saying. Offer substance if you can.

Glad that you acknowledge we are an independent nation. Many EU opponents make the ridiculous claim that we are not.

You say sovereignty has been 'eroded', I say we have chosen to pool sovereignty with our partner nations in a few limited and specific areas and that this pooling has been greatly to our benefit, as well as endorsed by the Irish people in a string of referendums. The extreme Brexiteers go on and on about sovereignty but they'll find out pretty quick that
(a) you can't eat sovereignty
(b) you can't enter into any sort of international agreement, including trade agreements, unless you choose to pool your sovereignty in some way. That makes North Korea pretty much the most sovereign nation on earth, as they refuse to cooperate with just about everyone.


Stating facts about the 1916 proclamation is not 'saltiness about being Irish'. I'm proud to be Irish. I'm also proud to be a European. You seem to feel the need to denigrate people who disagree with you. Not a good look tbh. Anyway you are factually wrong. The 1916 proclamation forms no part of the legal basis for our state's existence, or even the state which existed before that. It's just stating a fact.

Also it's interesting that you seem to regard a document prepared by a tiny bunch of unelected bureaucrats:pac: rebels in such reverence, the actual mandate for Irish independence was the hundreds of thousands of votes for it in 1918. Democracy, see?

The "political overlords" nonsense talk is just that, emotive BS with no foundation whatsoever. You can't be the overlord of someone who can just choose to walk away.

ArchXStanton

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

None of those things can happen unless the member states agree that they should happen.

Who is "Brussels" anyway?
- The MEPs we elect directly
- The foreign ministers of the national governments, which we elect indirectly
- The prime ministers of the national governments, which we elect indirectly
- The Commissioners, appointed by the national prime ministers

“Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?,” Juncker

Someone is telling porkies here, its either you or that drunken bastion of democracy Juncker.

Those decisions really don't belong in the hands of our politicians.what we got with the EU is federalism through the backdoor

What we really need is european wide referendums on the EUs future, they already know the answer and they won't be giving the people the chance to make it.

Hotblack Desiato

Under the Irish constitution we have to have referendums on European treaties which infringe upon sovereignty.

The ratification arrangements of other countries are matters for those countries according to their constitutional arrangements.

ArchXStanton

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Under the Irish constitution we have to have referendums on European treaties which infringe upon sovereignty.

The ratification arrangements of other countries are matters for those countries according to their constitutional arrangements.

And what happens when you vote against the EU treaties like happened here twice? Or in the case of the French and Dutch rejecting one, all the others were cancelled, do you see were I'm going with this? No? Let's have another belter from Juncker...

"there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties"


Democracy is only a word the bureaucrats use

https://euobserver.com/political/24481

Franz Von Peppercorn

Thomas_IV wrote: »

It is typical for right-wingers that their world view is very one-sided and narrow minded. But as I am no right-winger myself, I am not much bothered by the way such people maintain what they believe in even when it is wrong cos they only and always look at the things that divides but ignore the common values.

That’s an ad hominem attack. A clear search would reveal me to be an economic socialist and anti American foreign policy. That used to be enough to be left wing. As for Europe you haven’t explained why or what the actual common culture is. (Oh and plenty of right wingers believe Europe to have a common culture, but I’m dubious).

Europe is the better future for us all, nationalism is the wrong way back into a past which no-one in his right mind would ever want to return.

Actually nation states have been plenty successful since 1945. Most Western Europe liberal democracies were nation states. So is japan. Multi national states tend to fall apart.

Franz Von Peppercorn

professore wrote: »

It's factually incorrect to say there ever was a single European culture. The Romans had more in common with the Egyptians than the Vikings for example. The peoples of Europe today are MASSIVELY different culturally. The only thing they have in common over people from other parts of the world is watching American TV.

Germans believe in the full application of the letter of every law. Irish don't. Water charges protests there would be unthinkable.

Even Catholicism in Ireland Spain and Poland for example were practiced completely differently. Trying to pretend otherwise is revisionism.

If you've lived in Ireland all your life you can believe we are all the same culturally. But I can tell you are we fcuk.

There was but it needed a common religion and language (Latin) amongst the elites. Any attempt to recreate that would be impossible.

Lefty Bicek

murpho999 wrote: »

It's not an empire and nor is it falling apart at the seams.

It's just that a country that still has an Empire mentality is leaving.

The remaining 27 will be fine.

Immigration is only right wing bluster and not the big problem it's made out to be.
EU is also totally democratic.

Britain is far more democratic.

Unearthly

valoren wrote: »

How about reducing the working week in the EU states to 4 days a week.
Take the monday away. Three day weekends.
It could be part of an initiative to combat climate change.
Less emissions from travelling to work, less energy required to power buildings.

I'd much rather work an hour earlier and work an hour later 4 days per week and have an extra day off.
Those extra 8 hours would allow for covering the Mondays work.

I've been doing 4 days a week, 40 hour shifts for a few years now. I'd struggle to go back to 5 days a week