Micky Jackson in trouble again

Sleeper12

hetuzozaho wrote:

Why be so insisted on proving them to be liars as if that means they didn't get abused by him. Why be so protective of Michael Jackson full stop.

I don't need to prove them liars. They are liars no matter what side of the fence you sit on. They have purgered themselves claiming that he didn't abuse them OR that he did abuse them. One way or the other they are on the record for purgery.

I'm not protective of Jackson. I don't like his music & I thought he was a twat when he was alive. However I'm very wary of these two. One has latched onto the Jackson family for decades. It's only since Jacksons death and the ending of the gravy train that their story changed. To this day they never went to the police. They tried to sue the estate for a billion dollars. When they court threw this out they sold their story to HBO.

There is a tiny possibility that there is some truth in their story but their lives are so full of lives I couldn't possibly condem a dead guy based on their ever changing story. I'm not saying Jackson is guilty or innocent because I don't know. I do know that if Jackson was alive their claims would be thrown out of court because a court can't tell if they are lying or not based on their passed statements.

I'm open on this. I haven't doggedly made my mind. I am blown away at the amount of people willing to believe proven liars. People who have been proven to have purgered themselves in a court of law one way or another. I'm genuinely blown away. It's not unlike Trump supporters not believing the facts on the daily news. I truly don't understand it

hetuzozaho

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I don't need to prove them liars. They are liars no matter what side of the fence you sit on. They have purgered themselves claiming that he didn't abuse them OR that he did abuse them. One way or the other they are on the record for purgery.

I'm not protective of Jackson. I don't like his music & I thought he was a twat when he was alive. However I'm very wary of these two. One has latched onto the Jackson family for decades. It's only since Jacksons death and the ending of the gravy train that their story changed. To this day they never went to the police. They tried to sue the estate for a billion dollars. When they court threw this out they sold their story to HBO.

There is a tiny possibility that there is some truth in their story but their lives are so full of lives I couldn't possibly condem a dead guy based on their ever changing story. I'm not saying Jackson is guilty or innocent because I don't know. I do know that if Jackson was alive their claims would be thrown out of court because a court can't tell if they are lying or not based on their passed statements.

I'm open on this. I haven't doggedly made my mind. I am blown away at the amount of people willing to believe proven liars. People who have been proven to have purgered themselves in a court of law one way or another. I'm genuinely blown away. It's not unlike Trump supporters not believing the facts on the daily news. I truly don't understand it

Look, I maybe got the wrong end of the stick. But even with this post you seem very, maybe angry is the wrong word... But look maybe just how I'm perceiving on a forum all the best anyway ha

I condemn him anyway for sleeping with them

Sleeper12

hetuzozaho wrote:

Look, I maybe got the wrong end of the stick. But even with this post you seem very, maybe angry is the wrong word... But look maybe just how I'm perceiving on a forum all the best anyway ha

Not angry. But I hate the idea of people coming out of the woodwork telling things about a dead guy who can't defend himself. The things they are saying are the totally opposite of what they said when he was alive. The totally opposite of what they swore in court. How can you believe a proven liar, one way or another?

hetuzozaho

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not angry. But I hate the idea of people coming out of the woodwork telling things about a dead guy who can't defend himself. The things they are saying are the totally opposite of what they said when he was alive. The totally opposite of what they swore in court. How can you believe a proven liar, one way or another?

I dunno...

I'm not saying I believe them about the abuse. But it doesn't particularly upset me that they have said it either.

I don't really care what they swore in court. There could be explanations for it etc.

I just think they were treated awful by everyone involved when they were little kids. I was shocked by how they were treated as shown in the documentary and facts accepted by everyone.

I dunno if he touched them inappropriately, but just that the documentary showed me they were treated inappropriately.

Flippyfloppy

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I don't need to prove them liars. They are liars no matter what side of the fence you sit on. They have purgered themselves claiming that he didn't abuse them OR that he did abuse them. One way or the other they are on the record for purgery.

I'm not protective of Jackson. I don't like his music & I thought he was a twat when he was alive. However I'm very wary of these two. One has latched onto the Jackson family for decades. It's only since Jacksons death and the ending of the gravy train that their story changed. To this day they never went to the police. They tried to sue the estate for a billion dollars. When they court threw this out they sold their story to HBO.

There is a tiny possibility that there is some truth in their story but their lives are so full of lives I couldn't possibly condem a dead guy based on their ever changing story. I'm not saying Jackson is guilty or innocent because I don't know. I do know that if Jackson was alive their claims would be thrown out of court because a court can't tell if they are lying or not based on their passed statements.

I'm open on this. I haven't doggedly made my mind. I am blown away at the amount of people willing to believe proven liars. People who have been proven to have purgered themselves in a court of law one way or another. I'm genuinely blown away. It's not unlike Trump supporters not believing the facts on the daily news. I truly don't understand it

Ah, victim shaming.

Sleeper12

hetuzozaho wrote:

I just think they were treated awful by everyone involved when they were little kids. I was shocked by how they were treated as shown in the documentary and facts accepted by everyone.

They were treated terribly by their own parents. Don't forget this wasn't a documentary to try discover the truth. This was a scripted tv show. These guys didn't just sit down and talk. It was scripted and there was take after take of them saying the same thing till there was enough emotion in their voice to make the director happy. They never moved from the script. They didn't want to interview other people who had a different opinion. The script was to tell this tunnel vision version of a story. It's not an unbiased story /documentary.

This doesn't make it false but its very structure makes it very unreliable as far as facts are concerned. Netflix have a documentary not unlike this. Making of a murderer I think it is called. Watching it you are gobsmacked that they are still in prison. Take a step back and you see how biased the documentary actually is.

Boggles

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Ah, victim shaming.

Can't be, he doesn't believe they are victims.

Pretty simple really.

hetuzozaho

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They were treated terribly by their own parents.

Yep and Michael Jackson and his family.

Any child that was allowed to sleep in a bed alone with him was treated badly by their parents, Michael Jackson and his family IMO.

Would you agree it's inappropriate for him to sleep with them?

Flippyfloppy

Boggles wrote: »

Can't be, he doesn't believe they are victims.

Pretty simple really.

Unreal. I wonder how any of you would feel if it is ever proven that they were abused. How would you feel being part of the mob tearing these victims of child abuse down?

Boggles

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Unreal. I wonder how any of you would feel if it is ever proven that they were abused. How would you feel being part of the mob tearing these victims of child abuse down?

Weird you speak of proof, you don't seem to require any.

I would always support any real victims of abuse, especially child abuse.

But I don't think these guys are victims of anything, I think it is a con that has snow balled and if anything the story is starting to unravel more than it all ready has which is quite a lot TBF.

hetuzozaho

Boggles wrote: »

I would always support any real victims of abuse, especially child abuse.

You'd never know if it was though?

Flippyfloppy

Boggles wrote: »

Weird you speak of proof, you don't seem to require any.

I would always support any real victims of abuse, especially child abuse.

But I don't think these guys are victims of anything, I think it is a con that has snow balled and if anything the story is starting to unravel more than it all ready has which is quite a lot TBF.

You side stepped the question a bit there.

Mr.Wemmick

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Countless professionals with decades of experience were taken in by "Nick" in the UK.
You only have to look at the mistakes Tusla have made in Ireland too.
Going back further you had a Doctor here who falsely accused parents of abuse based on false memories extracted from children. I cannot remember the exact details of the case.
In Rochdale and Rotherdam, countless kids were not believed by experts and professionals.

In other words, the systems are not fail-proof and professionals have been deceived into believing allegations are true countless times and sometimes the opposite.

Usually its in court where the truth comes out, where allegations are tested and cross checked. And thankfully some people who were given a very tough time in the media such as Geofrey Rush and William Roche were cleared in court and completely exonerated.

Oh, I know only too well trained professionals who are not professionals and should not be in the position they're in. Social workers, care professionals who leave behind such a mess, it can take years to clean up after them. In the UK there are too many to count.. years of austerity means less training and expertise in the field and I now find myself complaining about the skill set and content of the training courses, as they're often wholly inadequate and downright dangerous.

I don't wallow in the negatives though and I am lucky to know some brilliant professionals with expertise and knowledge who care for and treat vulnerable children in very difficult environments. I also know written media stories on such issues are rarely accurately reported and come with an emotive element which send the stories off on a spin.

But there is still no getting away from the facts: very damaged children will rarely be able to tell the truth or know exactly what has fully happened to them. False memories can often be a cover for something much worse and until you have a child in front of you, and that child is receiving consistent caring support with joined up services through well-funded agencies, you will rarely get to the bottom of the damage.. and nor will the child/adult.

Society doesn't care about these children; it only cares about the lies.

hetuzozaho

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

You side stepped the question a bit there.

I'd imagine victims of abuse need the support most before it's proven.

So by not supporting them now, but when we find out it's "real" and then supporting them it's pretty useless.

Sleeper12

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Yep and Michael Jackson and his family.

Any child that was allowed to sleep in a bed alone with him was treated badly by their parents, Michael Jackson and his family IMO.

Would you agree it's inappropriate for him to sleep with them?

The sleeping arrangements were nuts. My kids are adults now but I never would have allowed those arrangements even with one of my own family members nor would I have any of my nephews or nieces in my bed. This doesn't make him an abuser though. You would assume parents letting their child to share a bed in this way would be asking the child a lot of questions about it on a regular basis about it

Sleeper12

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Unreal. I wonder how any of you would feel if it is ever proven that they were abused. How would you feel being part of the mob tearing these victims of child abuse down?

If they were in a court of law & they were the "victims" in the case they would be asked the same question asked here. Their past perjury would be brought up. Any lies would be brought up & you can be dam sure that the smoking gun of the abuse building not being built for two years after the abuse had stopped would have been brought up.


Can you point to anything in the thread that the defense wouldn't bring up trying to get to the truth?

Flippyfloppy

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If they were in a court of law & they were the "victims" in the case they would be asked the same question asked here. Their past perjury would be brought up. Any lies would be brought up & you can be dam sure that the smoking gun of the abuse building not being built for two years after the abuse had stopped would have been brought up.


Can you point to anything in the thread that the defense wouldn't bring up trying to get to the truth?

You do realise you aren’t on the defense team, right.

Flippyfloppy

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You would assume parents letting their child to share a bed in this way would be asking the child a lot of questions about it on a regular basis about it

Questions that would get no results because the child wouldn’t want to get in any trouble so would deny/not admit to anything, in the case of successful grooming, which makes the child feel they are party to the activity.

If any of my relatives wanted to sleep with my kids my number one concern would be the adults motivation. Why, oh why would they go out of their way to sleep with just boys, of a certain age.

Sleeper12

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

You do realise you aren’t on the defense team, right.

Liars stories need to be pulled apart to find the truth. It's one of the downsides to being a liar. We can't take their word for anything because their word means ****

The Nal

In a pub last night and someone asked the DJ to turn off Michael Jackson and when he did there was a cheer.

Hes done. His legacy is ruined.

Thats what happens when you fiddle kids I suppose.

Flippyfloppy

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Liars stories need to be pulled apart to find the truth. It's one of the downsides to being a liar. We can't take their word for anything because their word means ****

You don’t realise you’re not on the defense team then ....

Sleeper12

The Nal wrote:

In a pub last night and someone asked the DJ to turn off Michael Jackson and when he did there was a cheer.

While I'm delighted that the awful noise Jackson was silenced last night I'd be concerned about the reasons why. Pandering to the permanently offended isn't the best way forward

Sleeper12

Flippyfloppy wrote:

You don’t realise you’re not on the defense team then ....

And yet you seem very comfortable in the role of prosecution.

Oh the irony!

hetuzozaho

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The sleeping arrangements were nuts. My kids are adults now but I never would have allowed those arrangements even with one of my own family members nor would I have any of my nephews or nieces in my bed.

Yep that's the thing for me, the children were treated horribly.

Like if I left my children walk the streets every night surely I'd be in some kid of trouble with authorities. Letting them sleep with alone with an adult in his locked and alarmed bedroom or in hotel rooms with him. Good god why don't we have a law that says this is child abuse

Flippyfloppy

Sleeper12 wrote: »

And yet you seem very comfortable in the role of prosecution.

Oh the irony!

Considering people’s stories of abuse as possibly valid is not quite the same as pretending to be on the prosecution.

Anyway, I hope you continue to enjoy being part of the angry mob, I’m not continuing to give you an opportunity to spout your nonsense any longer.

Boggles

The Nal wrote: »

In a pub last night and someone asked the DJ to turn off Michael Jackson and when he did there was a cheer.

Hes done. His legacy is ruined.

The Michael Jackson musical Thriller Live is extending its West End run for another year

Sleeper12

Flippyfloppy wrote:

Considering people’s stories of abuse as possibly valid is not quite the same as pretending to be on the prosecution.

Your posts suggest that you are prosecution, judge and jury. The only role you haven't been playing is defence.

hetuzozaho

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Your posts suggest that you are prosecution, judge and jury. The only role you haven't been playing is defence.

They'll be along soon.. Oh there we are ha

The Nal

Boggles wrote: »

The Michael Jackson musical Thriller Live is extending its West End run for another year

Yup. As per your link.

"Radio stations pulled his songs from their playlists, and a statue of Jackson was removed from the National Football Museum in Manchester"

The Nal

The Nal wrote: »

Yup. As per your link.

"Radio stations pulled his songs from their playlists, and a statue of Jackson was removed from the National Football Museum in Manchester"

I didn't even know Michael Jackson was a footballer.