Micky Jackson in trouble again

Sleeper12

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Those stupid boys, why didn't they get their diaries out every time they were abused and note down: place, time, date, weather.. little fibbers is what they are.

It doesn't matter that they were 7 or 8 or 9 or 14, they could write couldn't they? They went to school did they not..?!

Load of codswallop, little liars.. off with their heads and be done with it. And MJ can continue on with his innocent history of child boyfriends and little bed fellows. Bless his white cotton socks.

Wouldn't that have been wonderful

Dear diary


I wasn't abused today


The End

You make it sound like they got their dates wrong by a day or two. One of them is out by at least two years! The abuse stopped at 14 he said but the place he was abused wasn't built till he was 16. So he could have been abused at 16' 17' 18.

Mr.Wemmick

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Wouldn't that have been wonderful



You make it sound like they got their dates wrong by a day or two. One of them is out by at least two years! The abuse stopped at 14 he said but the place he was abused wasn't built till he was 16. So he could have been abused at 16' 17' 18.

No I make it sound like he was a serial abuser and got away with it. The mighty jackson estate has seen to that.. all those relationships with little boys. One after the other.

But anyway.. dates, exact dates it is. Carry on.

Sleeper12

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

No I make it sound like he was a serial abuser and got away with it. The mighty jackson estate has seen to that.. all those relationships with little boys. One after the other.

But anyway.. dates, exact dates it is. Carry on.

How do you decide when they are telling lies & telling the truth?

Mother of Michael Jackson 'victim' Wade Robson told friends her son DENIED being molested by the king of pop 'time and time again' and 'had no reason to believe he was abused'

His own mother calls him a liar

ToBeFrank123

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

No I make it sound like he was a serial abuser and got away with it. The mighty jackson estate has seen to that.. all those relationships with little boys. One after the other.

But anyway.. dates, exact dates it is. Carry on.

You are basing this largely on the testimony of 2 serial perjurers and liars I'm taking it as well as a director who hasn't the foggiest about central events and timelines!

Unfortunately Jackson isn't around to defend himself, so any and all allegations can be made against him without it seems a single shred of hard evidence. But the testimony from these two chancers that has been debunked time and time again.

You also appear to be another poster who isn't particularly interested in dates, actual as opposed to made up events or facts. Safechuck has gone to ground it should be noted. He hasn't set the record straight about when the abuse ended. So the central idea of the documentary, that Jackson moved the kids on once they hit puberty has been shown to be bullsh*t. So if that was bullsh*t how much more of the documentary is bullsh*t. We already know most of it is, including the claim from Safechuck he refused to testify in 2005.

Necro

Christ this thread is still going?

Seems the Jackson defenders are putting extra effort into defending their champion of the people :rolleyes:

One wonders if Jim the plumber from Ballygobackwards was accused in this fashion, after openly admitting to sleeping in the same bed as young boys...

Would the defence and effort to discredit be as visceral.

ToBeFrank123

Necro wrote: »

Christ this thread is still going?

Seems the Jackson defenders are putting extra effort into defending their champion of the people :rolleyes:

One wonders if Jim the plumber from Ballygobackwards was accused in this fashion, after openly admitting to sleeping in the same bed as young boys...

Would the defence and effort to discredit be as visceral.

You haven't followed the thread or followed the story. So if you have nothing informative to add...

Necro

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You haven't followed the thread or followed the story. So if you have nothing informative to add...

That makes two of us then

ToBeFrank123

Necro wrote: »

That makes two of us then

Nope, followed the story from the start and know a fair bit about it at this stage and the backgrounds of most of characters involved.

Necro

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope, followed the story from the start and know a fair bit about it at this stage and the backgrounds of most of characters involved.

Ah yeah, that old nugget.

Truth is you're speculating just like everyone else

You can believe one way or another but neither side has definitive proof of anything.

One fact we do know though - is that Jacko slept in the same bed with little kiddies.

ToBeFrank123

Necro wrote: »

Ah yeah, that old nugget.

Truth is you're speculating just like everyone else

You can believe one way or another but neither side has definitive proof of anything.

One fact we do know though - is that Jacko slept in the same bed with little kiddies.

We are not really discussing whether he slept in the same bed as them.

What we are discussing is what are more than likely false accusations of anal and oral rape. So unless you have proof of this definitively you are just speculating like everyone else as you say.

But people, a lot of people have misunderstood speculation for fact. They present it as fact that Jackson anally and orally raped children, with little to back it up. Ultimately a lot of people have been taken in by 2 shysters, Robson and Safechuck who have been shown to have lied time and time again.

Necro

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

We are not really discussing whether he slept in the same bed as them.

What we are discussing is what are more than likely false accusations of anal and oral rape. So unless you have proof of this definitively you are just speculating like everyone else as you say.

But people, a lot of people have misunderstood speculation for fact. They present it as fact that Jackson anally and orally raped children, with little to back it up. Ultimately a lot of people have been taken in by 2 shysters, Robson and Safechuck who have been shown to have lied time and time again.

Pretty confident I wouldn't be defending a grown ass man who sleeps in the same bed as children not related to him under any circumstances.

I don't know whether any of what the... is it 6 people now separately making allegations at different times? Anyways...

I don't if what they are saying is true, I can't possibly know that.

However, the weirdo set himself up for this by having a bizarre relationship with kids, including sleeping in the same bed as them.

Mr.Wemmick

Sleeper12 wrote: »

How do you decide when they are telling lies & telling the truth?





His own mother calls him a liar

But they are liars, no question.. they learnt and were coached from the only person they adored, loved and looked up to in their childhood.
Robson as a kid on video had the exact same look and mannerism that Jackson used when he lied. The same glazed over expression, down to a T. Astonishing.

Nest of vipers. Life with a Paedophile will truly f*** you up. If you listen to the victims of Church abuse, some have never got over it and they are in their 60s/70s now.

ToBeFrank123

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

But they are liars, no question.. they learnt and were coached from the only person they adored, loved and looked up to in their childhood.
Robson as a kid on video had the exact same look and mannerism that Jackson used when he lied. The same glazed over expression, down to a T. Astonishing.

Nest of vipers. Life with a Paedophile will truly f*** you up. If you listen to the victims of Church abuse, some have never got over it and they are in their 60s/70s now.

This is their words. FFS, how much can you accept from admitted liars?

For all we know Jackson could have been raping them every night or not at all.

We simply don't know because since his death all we have is these two liars. its actually laughable at this stage. Two guys who have a long history of telling lie after lie, but people still take at face value everything they say.

ToBeFrank123

Necro wrote: »

Pretty confident I wouldn't be defending a grown ass man who sleeps in the same bed as children not related to him under any circumstances.

I don't know whether any of what the... is it 6 people now separately making allegations at different times? Anyways...

I don't if what they are saying is true, I can't possibly know that.

However, the weirdo set himself up for this by having a bizarre relationship with kids, including sleeping in the same bed as them.

Again not really the point.

The point is making false allegations of sexual abuse is very serious, as serious as sexual abuse itself in my opinion. Lives and careers have been ruined by it.

Just yesterday Geoffrey Rush was cleared. But his career will never fully recover from it.

Its just difficult to take Robson and Safechuck seriously. The other cases have been gone over on this thread. He was found innocent in 2005, so you have to give him that one. The 1993 case was paid out by the insurers without a trial. Jackson wanted to fight it but it would cost him a lot of money to do it. It was actually cheaper to pay the accuser off.

Mr.Wemmick

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

This is their words. FFS, how much can you accept from admitted liars?

For all we know Jackson could have been raping them every night or not at all.

We simply don't know because since his death all we have is these two liars. its actually laughable at this stage. Two guys have a long history of telling lie after lie, but people still take at face value everything they say.

Because you can not fake the effects of abuse. No one can.

Add that to Jackson's history, FFS.. all of it, the fake marriages, the lies, the boys, the pay offs, the whole sordid disgusting lot of it. Years of it.

A paedo through and through.. in bed with little boys, one after the other.. all his little friends.

This thread is a joke.

Kirby

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Because you can not fake the effects of abuse. No one can.

Come on now. You can't be that naive....

Necro

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Again not really the point.

The point is making false allegations of sexual abuse is very serious, as serious as sexual abuse itself in my opinion. Lives and careers have been ruined by it.

Just yesterday Geoffrey Rush was cleared. But his career will never fully recover from it.

Its just difficult to take Robson and Safechuck seriously. The other cases have been gone over on this thread. He was found innocent in 2005, so you have to give him that one. The 1993 case was paid out by the insurers without a trial. Jackson wanted to fight it but it would cost him a lot of money to do it. It was actually cheaper to pay the accuser off.

So many excuses for paying off someone. As you say, allegations of sexual abuse are serious.

Surely worth the money to fight it tooth and nail.

But I mean, there's excuses for everything if you look hard enough.

Anyways, I'll leave ye to it. You're entrenched in defending a man who openly admitted to sleeping in the same bed as small children and has had multiple allegations of sexual abuse levelled against him, one of which he paid off instead of defending.

I only hope if regular Jim the plumber encounters the same situation people will rally to his cause as fervently as the multi-millionaire who made a few good songs.

Somehow I doubt it.

Mr.Wemmick

Kirby wrote: »

Come on now. You can't be that naive....

And this gets funnier.. and how do you measure naivety, pray tell?

No wonder kids are never believed.

ToBeFrank123

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Because you can not fake the effects of abuse. No one can.

Add that to Jackson's history, FFS.. all of it, the fake marriages, the lies, the boys, the pay offs, the whole sordid disgusting lot of it. Years of it.

A paedo through and through.. in bed with little boys, one after the other.. all his little friends.

This thread is a joke.

Yeh sure, which explains all the fake allegations down through the years, including "Nick" in the UK whose allegations led to numerous people being falsely accused. Police were taken in for years by him. He's now standing trial for perverting the course of justice. There have been countless other false allegations including against celebrities and one prominent garda in Ireland. All taken seriously for a while until proven to be utter hogwash.

ToBeFrank123

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

And this gets funnier.. and how do you measure naivety, pray tell?

No wonder kids are never believed.

Kids who have an honest account of abuse to tell should be believed.

But anyone found to be fabricating abuse stories deserves to be put in jail. I think even you agree with that.

People who make false accusations of abuse are as evil as abusers in my book. You only have to look at the UK. UK police spent millions and years investigating the claims of proven liars like "Nick". Meanwhile they ignored real abuse in Rochdale and Rotherdam.

Boggles

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But anyone found to be fabricating abuse stories deserves to be put in jail. I think even you agree with that.

Case in the UK at moment, the person retracted the abuse claims, said she made them up.

Her Grandfather will remain in jail because her "story" was so believable.

Teenage girl fails to get grandfather's conviction for sexually abusing her overturned as judges rule her evidence is still believable

ToBeFrank123

Necro wrote: »

Anyways, I'll leave ye to it. You're entrenched in defending a man who openly admitted to sleeping in the same bed as small children and has had multiple allegations of sexual abuse levelled against him, one of which he paid off instead of defending.

What I am entrenched in doing is calling out lies. For the one millionth time, both Robson and Safechuck have been caught telling numerous porkies.

Its got nothing to do with who the target of those lies are.

Geoffrey Rush was also the victim of lies. Up until yesterday a lot of people thought he was guilty. I just don't like liars, call me old fashioned that way.

And also for the one millionth time, a one sided documentary without cross examination is not the way to prove allegations true or false. Much of what they said in the documentary has already been proven to be false.

Kirby

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

And this gets funnier.. and how do you measure naivety, pray tell?

I measure it by words like these.....

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Because you can not fake the effects of abuse. No one can.

You are naive. Very naive if you actually believe what you just said. Do some googling if you want to hear true stories of people who spent years in prison before their "victims" recanted and admitted to lying about the whole thing.

Everyone lies. Most people lie decently. The rare few are truly talented at it. Jackson could be guilty as sin. He might not be. Regardless, If you truly believe that it's impossible to fake the effects of abuse, I've some magic beans to sell you.

Mr.Wemmick

Kirby wrote: »

I measure it by words like these.....





You are naive. Very naive if you actually believe what you just said. Do some googling if you want to hear true stories of people who spent years in prison before their "victims" recanted and admitted to lying about the whole thing.

Everyone lies. Most people lie decently. The rare few are truly talented at it. Jackson could be guilty as sin. He might not be. Regardless, If you truly believe that it's impossible to fake the effects of abuse, I've some magic beans to sell you.

Out to prove a negative with a.. hilarious. Like I said this thread is a joke.

I have had experience in my work with victims of abuse, and the way you address lies as a means of understanding the lack of abuse says more about your own naivety.

Good luck with that.

Mr.Wemmick

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Kids who have an honest account of abuse to tell should be believed.

But anyone found to be fabricating abuse stories deserves to be put in jail. I think even you agree with that.

People who make false accusations of abuse are as evil as abusers in my book. You only have to look at the UK. UK police spent millions and years investigating the claims of proven liars like "Nick". Meanwhile they ignored real abuse in Rochdale and Rotherdam.

Yes I do agree with that, but not in this case.

I agree too that the Rochdale and Rotherdam cases are quite horrendous and those kids were failed by too many agencies over a long period of time.

ToBeFrank123

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Out to prove a negative with a.. hilarious. Like I said this thread is a joke.

I have had experience in my work with victims of abuse, and the way you address lies as a means of understanding the lack of abuse says more about your own naivety.

Good luck with that.

Countless professionals with decades of experience were taken in by "Nick" in the UK.
You only have to look at the mistakes Tusla have made in Ireland too.
Going back further you had a Doctor here who falsely accused parents of abuse based on false memories extracted from children. I cannot remember the exact details of the case.
In Rochdale and Rotherdam, countless kids were not believed by experts and professionals.

In other words, the systems are not fail-proof and professionals have been deceived into believing allegations are true countless times and sometimes the opposite.

Usually its in court where the truth comes out, where allegations are tested and cross checked. And thankfully some people who were given a very tough time in the media such as Geofrey Rush and William Roche were cleared in court and completely exonerated.

Sleeper12

Mr.Wemmick wrote:

But they are liars, no question.. they learnt and were coached from the only person they adored, loved and looked up to in their childhood. Robson as a kid on video had the exact same look and mannerism that Jackson used when he lied. The same glazed over expression, down to a T. Astonishing.

How do you know that they have been lying for him. Their story was consistent until they decided that they were abused. All of a sudden years blurred with them. I'd never suggest that Jackson never abused anyone but I could never believe proven liars either

hetuzozaho

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'd never suggest that Jackson never abused anyone but I could never believe proven liars either

Loads of people lie about things though. And people who lie get abused.
They are not mutual exclusive.

I don't see why people are so insistent on proving them as being unreliable. It only serves to protect Michael Jackson, why are people so insistent on protecting Michael Jackson when they don't know if he abused anyone or not.

Sleeper12

hetuzozaho wrote:

Loads of people lie about things though. And people who lie get abused. They are not mutual exclusive.

Have you any idea how bad that statement is?

I'm afraid to even break this down. I feel like I'm dealing with a cult or something here.
Is it not true that people who tell the truth get abused too? Or are you saying that everyone that's been abused has lied?

hetuzozaho

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Have you any idea how bad that statement is?

I'm afraid to even break this down. I feel like I'm dealing with a cult or something here.
Is it not true that people who tell the truth get abused too? Or are you saying that everyone that's been abused has lied?

Ha sorry if I came across wrong!

I mean, people who have lied in their life can be abused and people who don't can be abused.

People keep harping on about these guys lying about being abused in a train station that didn't exist. But we know of loads of rooms that did exist where they slept in bed with him.

Why be so insisted on proving them to be liars as if that means they didn't get abused by him.
Why be so protective of Michael Jackson full stop.