Driver indicating but doesn't turn

sligojoek

I learned the hard way. In 1984 I was pulling out from a side road of a T junction on a Honda 50. Fiat Mirafiori coming along with his flasher clearly on. I said "Grand" and went to turn right. I ended up going through his windscreen. Cops told me I hadn't a leg to stand on and I was liable to pay for the damage to your mans car. Luckily my father was a panel beater and the whole thing was sorted amicably. To this day I always wait till they maneuver in before I go anywhere.

CiniO

sligojoek wrote: »

I learned the hard way. In 1984 I was pulling out from a side road of a T junction on a Honda 50. Fiat Mirafiori coming along with his flasher clearly on. I said "Grand" and went to turn right. I ended up going through his windscreen. Cops told me I hadn't a leg to stand on and I was liable to pay for the damage to your mans car. Luckily my father was a panel beater and the whole thing was sorted amicably. To this day I always wait till they maneuver in before I go anywhere.

And that's what I wonder.
Did you really have no leg to stand on?

What if you could prove that he was indicating.


I see a major difference between indicating being meaningless and being unable to prove someone was indicating.

magicbastarder

sligojoek wrote: »

Cops told me I hadn't a leg to stand on

the cops could have been a little more diplomatic about your injuries though.

sligojoek

And that's what I wonder.
Did you really have no leg to stand on?

What if you could prove that he was indicating.


I see a major difference between indicating being meaningless and being unable to prove someone was indicating.

A dashcam on a Honda 50 in 1985. No way José.

His indicator was on. He had no intention of turning to his left. He was always going in a straight line. If I'd waited long enough I'd have discovered that.

Going by your reckoning a lot of people would be in the right but 6 foot under.

sligojoek

magicbastarder wrote: »

the cops could have been a little more diplomatic about your injuries though.

No PC sh1te in the 80s

I was lucky to get away with a broken collarbone. He was only doing about 20 - 30mph. If he was going faster I'd have copped on he was doing a Maggie Thatcher, ie. not for turning.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

And that's what I wonder.
Did you really have no leg to stand on?

What if you could prove that he was indicating.


I see a major difference between indicating being meaningless and being unable to prove someone was indicating.

The vehicle on the road you are pulling onto has the right of way, so if you pull in front of them you don't have a leg to stand on. What law do you think makes not turning with an indicator flashing illegal?

What if the driver has their hazard lights on but a bulb is blown?

Sherfin

Also, they're not obliged to make the next turn just because they have indicated.
They could be pulling in just after the turn to let someone out.

twowheelsonly

CiniO wrote: »

How can they have a right of way going straight, if they are not planning on going straight.

Doesn't matter what they're planning on doing or not doing. That's not your business. As long as they're on the road that you want to pull on to then they have the right of way. Once they take their turn or pass you then the road is all yours.


I have to admit that I've been guilty of this as well (on a motorbike). Sometimes, with so much going on around you may not notice that the indicator is still on and there's plenty of bikes that they don't auto cancel on or sometimes the cancel switch just doesn't engage.

I'm also of the school of thought though that a flashing indicator just means that they're working and has nothing to do with intent. I'd prefer that though to the crowd that don't bother indicating regardless of where they're going or what they're doing.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

The vehicle on the road you are pulling onto has the right of way, so if you pull in front of them you don't have a leg to stand on. What law do you think makes not turning with an indicator flashing illegal?

IMO this law:

18. (1) A driver intending to slow down, stop, or alter course, shall either give a signal by using a direction indicator or stop lamp, as appropriate, or give the appropriate hand signal set out in Table A in the Second Schedule.

(2) A driver shall indicate the direction in which the vehicle is to be driven to a member of the Garda Sh by giving either a signal by using a direction indicator or the appropriate hand signal set out in Table B in the Second Schedule.

(3) A driver shall give a signal in sufficient time before altering course and in such a manner as to be clearly visible and clearly understood by those for whom such signal is intended.

(4) A driver shall not give simultaneous contradictory signals.

What if the driver has their hazard lights on but a bulb is blown?

That's why driving with hazard lights on is illegal in most countries. I unfortunately don't recall any Irish law prohibiting it.

sligojoek

It's a while since I've seen the rules of the road or the highway code but I could swear there's something in there about indicating after the last available exit.

Guy:Incognito

CiniO wrote: »

And that's what I wonder.
Did you really have no leg to stand on?

What if you could prove that he was indicating.


I see a major difference between indicating being meaningless and being unable to prove someone was indicating.

In what country would you gain right of way because they are indicating?

What happens if they are indicating to pull in just after the junction you're at? Should they wait till they pass you then flick the indicator and pull in all in one motion?

CiniO

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

In what country would you gain right of way because they are indicating?

Most I would guess.
Poland definitely, as there if you can prove that someone was indicating and you pulled out and he came straight and hit you, then he is the one at fault.

What happens if they are indicating to pull in just after the junction you're at? Should they wait till they pass you then flick the indicator and pull in all in one motion?

Yes.

Dakotabigone

Ah Cinio seriously?
I would ask for a link but have no polish.

CiniO

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Ah Cinio seriously?
I would ask for a link but have no polish.

Even if you had Polish it would be hard to get a link.
It's just my experience of reading forums and articles.

If Police is unable to establish if indicator was on or off, they have to assume it was off and blame person pulling from side road. That is probably majority of cases.

However if there is a proof that indicator was on, and person on main road didn't turn, then blame rests on person who indicated incorrectly. Proof usually can be only in a form of dashcam recording or independent witness.

Guy:Incognito

CiniO wrote: »

Even if you had Polish it would be hard to get a link.
It's just my experience of reading forums and articles.

If Police is unable to establish if indicator was on or off, they have to assume it was off and blame person pulling from side road. That is probably majority of cases.

However if there is a proof that indicator was on, and person on main road didn't turn, then blame rests on person who indicated incorrectly. Proof usually can be only in a form of dashcam recording or independent witness.

That's a load of needless extra crap to add to a situation. Much easier to do as the rest of us do and leave the right of way with the person that has it. That way theres no ambiguity or arguing. You pull out in front of someone , you're at fault. Very simple.

As for the one about pulling in right after the turn, Poland must be full of people braking , indicating and pulling in all at the same time to avoid confusion about where they are turning and Male.sure they don't get blamed when some idiot pulls out in front of them.

Must he a nightmare driving around constantly watching for people veering at the last second with no indicator till they are already taking the turn on streets with loads of houses or a few turns one after the other.

sligojoek

At the end of the day, keep your own safety paramount. Don't move until it's safe to move. The other person might have the stereo turned up and have other distractions going on and have no idea that their indicator is on. I'd hate to have "But he was in the right" written on my headstone.

screamer

As my driving instructor lord rest him said to me, never trust an indicator until you see the car wheels turning.....and it’s worked for me for almost 20 years.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

IMO this law:




That's why driving with hazard lights on is illegal in most countries. I unfortunately don't recall any Irish law prohibiting it.

None of them require the driver to turn after giving the signal. But even if they did that doesn't supercede the person on the road still has right of way.

How come you can find our laws but can't find this great Polish law that allows people to pull out of a side road and claim to be in the right because the other person was indicating?

Dravokivich

CiniO wrote: »

And that's what I wonder.
Did you really have no leg to stand on?

What if you could prove that he was indicating.


I see a major difference between indicating being meaningless and being unable to prove someone was indicating.

You give way to people already in the lane. And enter it when safe to do so. We don't need this scenario explicitly called out.

GM228

CiniO, it is true that a driver must by law indicate when changing directions, and whilst a driver must not give simultaneous contradictory indications (this also covers your query of using hazards when there is no hazard), there is no corresponding legal requirement to actually turn when you indicate to do so. Failure to turn after indicating is not illegal.

Even if it was indicating does not change right of way and a criminal offence has no bearing on the civil side.