Man, 65, convicted of purchasing sex in landmark prostitution case

whisky_galore

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It couldn’t be the worlds oldest profession, because it isn’t a profession in the first place -


any type of work that needs special training or a particular skill, often one that is respected because it involves a high level of education.


Cambridge Dictionary


Tailoring, would appear to be the worlds oldest profession.

In saying that, I do of course understand the context in which the phrase is generally intended, but all too often people appear to interpret it literally as if to lend prostitution some form of legitimate occupation or social recognition it doesn’t deserve and certainly doesn’t possess, such as the idea of referring to it euphemistically as “sex work”.

It's a well known turn of phrase, you nitpicking doofus.

One eyed Jack

whisky_galore wrote: »

It's a well known turn of phrase, you nitpicking doofus.

You seem tense :pac:

Johnny Red Cab

Loads of Catholic fundamentalists about these days.

Austria!

Rezident wrote: »

The truth is most prostitutes are not exactly in an ideal situation and people with money taking advantage of them, is, well, taking advantage.

People working min wage are not in an ideal situation either.
In fact I'm sure there's women who were in that situation and gave it up to pursue sex work.

Galwayguy35

It should be made legal like in other countries, it makes it safer for the hookers and the lads who want to pay for sex.

Although I can remember when it was illegal to buy Playboy so I can't see our spineless politicians moving on this any time soon.

Berserker

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It should be made legal like in other countries, it makes it safer for the hookers and the lads who want to pay for sex.

It doesn't make is safer for either. The RLD in Amsterdam is well know for social issues after dark.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Amsterdam is a disgrace as a result of their laws in that regard. Beautiful city ruined.

Spent a lot of time in Amsterdam down through the years for work and I've been to the RLD once, in the afternoon, with my OH, to see what it was all about. Amsterdam is an amazing city, the RLD is a very small part of the city. Don't let it or the coffee shops put you off going to there.

LeBash wrote: »

I'd say we would legalise it if it went to referendum. I don't get the problem at all, he wanted to blow a load, she wanted money and was happy enough to allow him do it for the money.

Is there anything more sickening than people trying to force their morals on others?

Hmm, just like you want to force your morals on everyone else and legalise it? Also, I disagree with you about a referendum. No major political party would promote legalising it.

Church on Tuesday

lbc2019 wrote: »

Ronan Mullen pushed for this law, ergo, I'm against it.

Him and those fecking nuns!

The atypical do gooder.

Lads like him creep me out

paw patrol

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It couldn’t be the worlds oldest profession, because it isn’t a profession in the first place -


any type of work that needs special training or a particular skill, often one that is respected because it involves a high level of education.

I think you are wrong.

being a good hooker requires all this. Just as there are good and bad plumbers , there are good and bad hookers. It's a profession.

One eyed Jack

paw patrol wrote: »

I think you are wrong.

being a good hooker requires all this. Just as there are good and bad plumbers , there are good and bad hookers. It's a profession.

Being a hooker does not require any special training, it does not require any set of particular skills, it certainly does not require a high level of education, in fact it requires no education whatsoever, nor is it a particularly respected way to earn money. The quality of professions which are actually professions, has nothing to do with prostitution.

McCrack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Being a hooker does not require any special training, it does not require any set of particular skills, it certainly does not require a high level of education, in fact it requires no education whatsoever, nor is it a particularly respected way to earn money. The quality of professions which are actually professions, has nothing to do with prostitution.

Arguable

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Being a hooker does not require any special training, it does not require any set of particular skills, it certainly does not require a high level of education, in fact it requires no education whatsoever, nor is it a particularly respected way to earn money. The quality of professions which are actually professions, has nothing to do with prostitution.

I'd have to disagree Jack, you'd need to be an excellent actress and have a stomach of steel imo if you're looking for for repeat custom.

Pythagorean

LeBash wrote: »

I'd say we would legalise it if it went to referendum. I don't get the problem at all, he wanted to blow a load, she wanted money and was happy enough to allow him do it for the money.

Is there anything more sickening than people trying to force their morals on others? If you have a problem with prostitutes, then just don't visit them. Those people are so organised though that they get sh1t done regardless of it not being the will of the majority and I think half of it is immature politicians not willing to debate it in case they are painted as perverts in public.

There seems to be a growing tendency to pass very harsh laws in this country, which seek to clamp down on fairly low level offences, eg 1 pint and you're off the road type of thing. I suspect that pressure groups are getting their way by exploiting the precarious situation of the Government and as a result legislation reflects some groups view of what is "the right thing to do", rather than legislation which is for the common good, and deals with real crimes, rather than moral infringements.

Sonic Youth

What is to stop me going on a certain website and paying a woman to spend a half hour with me? If we end up having sex, well great, but I'm just paying her to hang out with me.

paleoperson

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing I have thought of doing a few times but never got the finger out - is to create and host a consumer site similar to Escort Ireland. So rather than a site for the escorts to advertise themselves and their wares - the consumer advertises themselves and their desires and any details they want to share.

Who knows how many escorts would actually use such a site but I think it worthy of the attempt in that _done right_ anything that allows a sex worker to be more selective in choosing clients - is going to improve the environment of their work.

No, because they would just pick all the good-looking guys, who you acknowledge are the ones more likely to be cheating on someone. That's nothing to do with rights, that's just picking and choosing. It would be encouraging prostitutes to reject clients for superficial traits such as being ugly, old, lacking muscles, short, disabled (to a greater or lesser extent) and so on. Where's your "soft spot in my heart" for those people? It goes against the whole idea of prostitution, who wants "Chad" to get laid again?

Your website idea is laughable because I don't know how you expect thousands of clients to go on an internet site showing their profiles and advertising themselves to pay for sex, that's absurd.

greencap

McCrack wrote: »

Arguable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOmqNKAuYdM

from 01:50

Depends on the number of punters.

jimmycrackcorm

Berserker wrote:

It doesn't make is safer for either. The RLD in Amsterdam is well know for social issues after dark.

Which are similar to any other area that draws people in.
Dudbridge Temple Bar have its own issues that day Grafton street doesn't?

Feisar

If it's such a legit job, who here would marry a prostitute?

Berserker

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Which are similar to any other area that draws people in.
Dudbridge Temple Bar have its own issues that day Grafton street doesn't?

Not really. Dam square, which is very close to the RLD, draws people in and it is safe after dark. I'd happily stroll around there after dark. Ditto for the likes of Prinsengracht (Anne Frank house).

Sonic Youth

Feisar wrote: »

If it's such a legit job, who here would marry a prostitute?

Or want their daughter/sister/mother to work as one?

Feisar

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Or want their daughter/sister/mother to work as one?

hey, equality!

son/brother/father!!!!

Austria!

Feisar wrote: »

If it's such a legit job, who here would marry a prostitute?

Do you mean because of the stigma or because they're in a precarious situation thanks to all their customers being criminals?


Anyway, if I loved her and thought she loved me, then yeah, I would.

Guy:Incognito

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Or want their daughter/sister/mother to work as one?

I wouldnt want my daughter/sister/mother to have to do backbreaking labour on a building site to earn a living but at the end of the day it's not my choice what they do.

A few years back we decided itd be nice to let the wimmin folk make up their own minds. We let them vote and all now you know.

Sonic Youth

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I wouldnt want my daughter/sister/mother to have to do backbreaking labour on a building site to earn a living but at the end of the day it's not my choice what they do.

A few years back we decided itd be nice to let the wimmin folk make up their own minds. We let them vote and all now you know.

You really think young women from Romania and Lativa are flying to Ireland to pursue their dream of having sex with fat pasty Irishmen? Haha.

Andrew00

65 year old grandfather goes out riding a dirty hooker dirty some alleyway

Guy:Incognito

Sonic Youth wrote: »

You really think young women from Romania and Lativa are flying to Ireland to pursue their dream of having sex with fat pasty Irishmen? Haha.

I suppose they could stay in Romania and Latvia and ride fat Romanians and Latvians for a fraction of the amount.

Unless you think only Male models in Romania and Latvia use prostitutes.

I'm sure there are arses to be wiped in old folks homes and hosputals in the Philippines but for some reason healthcare staff seem to like coming over to wipe Irish arses.........

Sonic Youth

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I suppose they could stay in Romania and Latvia and ride fat Romanians and Latvians for a fraction of the amount.

Unless you think only Male models in Romania and Latvia use prostitutes.

I'm sure there are arses to be wiped in old folks homes and hosputals in the Philippines but for some reason healthcare staff seem to like coming over to wipe Irish arses.........

Comparing nurses to prostitute...ok. Pretty sure the pimps force them over here to work. You sound like a very naive person.

Guy:Incognito

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Comparing nurses to prostitute...ok. Pretty sure the pimps force them over here to work. You sound like a very naive person.

Comparing one job to another. Why would anyone come here to work in your opinion? Money maybe?

As for trafficking, that's illegal and a matter for the authorities. Arresting the man in the story isnt going to stop that.

Providing legal , safe brothels can only reduce the amount of people looking to use dodgy illegal ones.

paleoperson

paleoperson wrote: »

No, because they would just pick all the good-looking guys, who you acknowledge are the ones more likely to be cheating on someone.

That is a value judgement that has nothing to do with the intent of such a site however. The intent of the site would be to allow sex workers to choose their clients _if_ they so wished. Value judgements about who they then pick or why - well not my concern or problem. Nor should it be.

That said though I do not think it an automatic given that such a site would include pictures in the first place - due to privacy concerns - nor do I think it a given they would automatically pick the "good looking guys" at all. They might see the less than good looking guys as being a greater potential for higher income and repeat business for example.

paleoperson wrote: »

That's nothing to do with rights, that's just picking and choosing.

Interesting though I never suggested such a site would be anything to do with rights in the first place. What I did say was that I thought it an interesting idea to improve the environment in which sex workers work by giving them the ability to choose their clients in an atmosphere where currently sites like Escort Ireland only give the clients the ability to choose the service provider.

I never suggest this improves rights or that anyone has the right to such a site or any of that. I simply wondered out loud if their working environment might be improved by such a site. I think it might. Especially as it's use would be optional not compulsory.

paleoperson wrote: »

It would be encouraging prostitutes to reject clients for superficial traits such as being ugly, old, lacking muscles, short, disabled

Which they are more than welcome to do. I see nothing wrong with that. And in fact a quick look over Escort Ireland last time this subject came up on boards and I was perusing the site (research doncha know) I noticed that in fact a few escorts specifically mentioned they tailor for disabled people specifically.

You see I do not care about your personal "idea of prostitution". I care about people in sex work and how best to improve their working conditions. Just like I care about anyone in any kind of work and how we might improve their working conditions.

paleoperson wrote: »

Your website idea is laughable because I don't know how you expect thousands of clients to go on an internet site showing their profiles and advertising themselves to pay for sex, that's absurd.

I appreciate the feedback as it is the first time I floated the idea out loud. But I do not "expect" that at all. So the foundation of your finding it absurd is one that does not exist in what I proposed. Which is itself quite absurd. So right back atcha kid.

No I see it as an _option_ to augment already existing structures. Not one to replace anything at all. I would expect if I did such a site that 98% of people would still chose their sex worker through sites like Escort Ireland. But sites like Escort Ireland also do not appear to make it easy to contact sex workers with specific requests for specific times or services or questions. At best they appear to have something in their software that _attempts_ to tell you how often or quickly an escort responds to messages. Nothing more.

So anyone with specific requests or time restrictions could potentially _also_ use a site like the one I proposed to say what they want specifically, when they are available in general, and so forth. And an escort siting around with no current client lined up could peruse such a site to augment the sources of sex work he or she already has and say "Actually I can provide that service" or "Actually I have no work lined up at that time" and then contact the client.

Nothing laughable or absurd about any of that that I can see. Enlighten me as to where you see the problem. Especially as the "expectations" you seem to feel it creates - are simply not there.

Rezident

Rezident wrote: »

The demand for heroin will always be there but that does not mean you should legalize it, as that will certainly increase the problem.

I am not sure that is "certain" at all. But I would take it on a drug by drug basis. Certainly one of the advantages of a legal regulated product or service - be it a drug or sex work - is that in theory at least we have can have an industry standard regulated product that is not cut with any old byproduct the dealer has lying around to maximize his profits. And we can work on researching less addictive alternatives and so forth.

Of course I say "in theory" because it is different on a drug by drug basis, but also because we have seen what alcohol has done to many in our society and meanwhile the Cigarette industry have not exactly been free of accusations of cutting materials into the base product specifically to make it more addictive.

Rezident wrote: »

The truth is most prostitutes are not exactly in an ideal situation and people with money taking advantage of them, is, well, taking advantage.

Can the same not be said about anyone being hired into minimum wage jobs, or jobs with a rolling non-permanent contract, and more? Many people are not in ideal situations and they take up work and options they would not otherwise move towards. And many people are happy to take advantage of their needs. It is not ideal that we live in a world where that happens and we should do our best to combat it in general. Not by singling out one particular industry or product or service from all the rest and act like they are the culprits.

Take the people I mentioned before from the next town over from me. Polish people imported en masse to do mundane warehouse work and food production work in manufacturing for the lowest wage possible. Was their situation ideal? Were Musgraves and Leaf taking advantage? Probably. So why single out sex work for this when others are doing it all the time?

Feisar wrote: »

If it's such a legit job, who here would marry a prostitute?

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Or want their daughter/sister/mother to work as one?

Rezident wrote: »

If prostitution was ok then people would be ok with their mother or sister or daughter being a prostitute.

And in theory I absolutely am. My daugther is currently 8. If she came to me at 18 and told me she planned to enter sex work then I would make sure she was fully informed of the issues that work has, had thought all her options through, and if she still was intent this was the chosen career path for her then I would absolutely support her and be ok with that. And guess what? I would do all the same things if she came to me saying she wanted to be a nurse a doctor or a police officer or just about everything else too.

I do not see my job as a parent to control what careers my children do or do not enter or to "be ok" or not "be ok" with whatever their choices are. I see my job as a parent to ensure I spent the first 18 years of their life equipping them with the tools and education and personal traits with which to make those decisions for themselves - and to then support them fully in making and following their own choices.

There is a certain hubris though in the idea of "wanting" your daughter or sister to work at X. As if - ultimately - it is any of our business really or what we "want" is at all relevant. But if it comes to "wants" then sure there are certain careers that I would personally like to see my sister or daughter enter into over others. Sex work is by far not the end of the list. There are many things below it. I would prefer - as one random example - they were earning their money in a bed in a hotel room having sex than I would have them taking fire in the front lines of a war zone as part of a career in the military. I would prefer they earn work sexually and be happy with their career choice than spent 35 years flipping burgers in McDonalds if they find themselves contemplating suicide every day.

My primary concern in other words is with _their_ well being and happiness. Not what career they happen to find it in. I would prefer them to be happy in sex work - than miserable as a top paid medical doctor. I do not think our role is to protect women from their own choices. They fought hard for the right to work and the right to vote. Leave them at it to make their own choices.

Sonic Youth

TaxAH, I do not believe for one second you'd be happy with your daughter being a hooker, getting fcuked by 20 men a day.