Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

ironwalk

Dial Hard wrote: »

Trans rights have absolutely nothing to do with opportunistic male perverts/predators and it's complete and utter nonsense to try and conflate them.

Trans rights are a separate issue, one that I support.
However, it is naive to imagine that "opportunistic male perverts/predators" will not exploit the loophole offered when women's spaces are expanded to encompass trans women.

It is not nonsense.
It's the epitome of common sense to see potential problems and address them as they arise.

That is why we must hold the rights of women in one hand while we discuss trans rights in the other.

Richard Hillman

Bruce Jenner was the worst thing to happen for Trans people. There was growing acceptance of "it's your business, it doesn't affect me, good luck". Then when Bruce Jenner killed somebody, had a meltdown and decided that he wasn't a man any more, the media class and Aggressive LBGTXYZ activist's pushed it so hard that their Ying turned into Yang.

The hole thing has turned into a monster, to a state of where "it's your business, it doesn't affect me" is gone. Special toilets, aggressive stand offs, the rewriting of science, the indoctrination of children to believe that there are more than 2 sexes, get your house in order or there will be a lot more Yang to your Ying.

seamus

AlphabetCards wrote: »

I get the impression they are. Ask how many are comfortable sharing a dressing room with a pre-op trans woman.

Funnily enough, I get the exact opposite impression. I find the majority of people positing the "pervert in the changing room" boogeyman are men.

My impression is that women are in general quite uncomfortable and self-conscious in shared dressing rooms, regardless of who else is in there.

ironwalk

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus You think most women are anti-trans?

AlphabeCards I get the impression they are. Ask how many are comfortable sharing a dressing room with a pre-op trans woman.


How has it got to the point that being concerned with woman's right is now equivalent to being "anti-trans".

It isn't.
Women can be concerned with more than one thing at a time. We can be concerned about our sons who want to transition to being trans women, while at the same time, wanting to retain rights and privacy for our daughters.

Dial Hard

AlphabetCards wrote: »

I get the impression they are. Ask how many are comfortable sharing a dressing room with a pre-op trans woman.

I can only speak for myself, but it wouldn't bother me in the least. Same as I have no issue sharing unisex bathrooms with men.

Will I Am Not

I used to like Irish Simpsons Fans Facebook group until they deleted this, because it was offensive and they hate Linehan anyway.

beans

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I used to like Irish Simpsons Fans Facebook group until they deleted this...

Hard to not read that in his voice

Dyr

There's a kind of rich irony in seeing Linehans own side turn on him like a pack of wild dogs for wrong think

Solidarity comrades lol

ironwalk

AlphabetCards wrote: »

I get the impression they are. Ask how many are comfortable sharing a dressing room with a pre-op trans woman.

Dial Hard wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but it wouldn't bother me in the least. Same as I have no issue sharing unisex bathrooms with men.

Dial, my elderly mother would get a start and would probably apologise, imagining that she had wandered into the wrong changing room. It would bother her. She wouldn't be able to wander around the dressing room.

There are lots of women who are from non-Christian religious backgrounds who would have a problem with using a changing room or bathroom with men.

I'd have a problem with my teenager sharing with a teenage male-bodied person, in a dressing room, or a Scout tent, or a bathroom etc etc etc.

It may not bother some women, but let's not throw the rest under the bus.

Dial Hard

ironwalk wrote: »

It may not bother some women, but let's not throw the rest under the bus.

Hence my extremely clear caveat that I was speaking only for myself. What part of that did you find confusing?

Dick phelan

Is there any issue that effects so few and yet gets so much coverage? Like honestly how many transgender people are there even in the country, I honestly only know of 1 lad that is. It's an issue that seems to get a seriously disproportionate amount of coverage, asking people to change what has been scientific fact of literally centuries to avoid hurting the feelings of a tiny minority. There are two genders Male and Female if you want to know which you are have a look downstairs,

I feel sad for trans people i really do, must be horrible to basically not be able to deal with who you are and to be so unhappy with it. That said just because you feel like X or want to be X doesn't mean you are. Maybe i want to be a Japanese Samurai but no matter how much i feel like one or want to be one the fact is I'm a white man from Ireland and nobody should have to entertain my delusions.

ironwalk

Dial Hard wrote: »

Hence my extremely clear caveat that I was speaking only for myself. What part of that did you find confusing?

I'm not confused at all.
The question was asked as to how many women "are comfortable sharing a dressing room with a pre-op trans woman".

It is important to emphasise the while some women such as yourself don't have a difficulty with it, there are many many women who do.

To draw an analogy, I would not be comfortable seeking an abortion. I can only speak for myself on the point.
I support and vote for the rights of other women to have one close to home and without judgement.

Dante7

Dial Hard wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but it wouldn't bother me in the least. Same as I have no issue sharing unisex bathrooms with men.

Would it bother you if you were a beatician and you were forced, by law to wax a self identifying trans woman's balls?
Would it bother you if you were confined in a woman's only institution and were sexually assualted by a woman with a penis?
Would it bother you if you were in a changing room shower and a woman washed her penis and balls beside you?
Would it bother you if children were being misdiagnised as gender dysphoric and given hormone blockers and possibly surgery only for it to be a phase they were going through?

It bothers me that in today's climate, even attempting to discuss these issues will get you labelled a transphobe and a bigot.

ironwalk

Dick phelan wrote: »

Is there any issue that effects so few and yet gets so much coverage? Like honestly how many transgender people are there even in the country, I honestly only know of 1 lad that is. It's an issue that seems to get a seriously disproportionate amount of coverage, asking people to change what has been scientific fact of literally centuries to avoid hurting the feelings of a tiny minority. There are two genders Male and Female if you want to know which you are have a look downstairs,

I feel sad for trans people i really do, must be horrible to basically not be able to deal with who you are and to be so unhappy with it. That said just because you feel like X or want to be X doesn't mean you are. Maybe i want to be a Japanese Samurai but no matter how much i feel like one or want to be one the fact is I'm a white man from Ireland and nobody should have to entertain my delusions.

Dick, I think its a bit harsh to describe it as a delusion.
And, like many, you might be a little bit unclear in thinking that gender=sex.

The pity of the whole trans debate is that it has made gender stereotypes equivalent to genetic sex.
I might be male, but love knitting.
I might be female but love hurling.
Sex is not the same as gender.

But, in trans theory, if my little boy wants to play with Barbie and wear a princess costume, then he must be a girl "locked' in a boy's body.

This, to me, is the pity of it.
Why can't my daughter be interested in backwoods survival stuff and enjoy gutting a fish and be good at Maths. And still be a girl.
Why can't my son be kind, sensitive, good with small children, and excel at cooking. And still be a boy?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ceadaoin. wrote: »

He's been banned from Twitter and interviewed by the police due to complaints of transphobia from a frankly dodgy character who happens to be a trans woman. This person also targeted his wife's business and tried to incite people to attack it. And has targeted other people in the past. Anyway linehan refused to back down and continues to talk about the issues/problems with "self id". Seems they are going for the controversy angle to get viewers in. Why are people trying to stop it though? Surely if he really is a raging bigot then the more airtime the better so that people can see it?

My thoughts too. I don’t understand the whole thing of getting people with massively unpopular views or whatever removed from discussions. If what they say is so bad or so easy to refute, then what have people got to fear? Just debate them and if your case is more logical than theirs, you’ll come out on top and show them up.

Have to say though, the wires seem to be coming a bit loose in Linehan’s head. I’m a fan of much of his work but as a person - oof! It’s not that I disagree with all his points on the topic - I’m very against preteens being given medication to stave off puberty, for example - but he just comes across unhinged.

Dante7

"Transgender woman goes crazy after being misgendered"

https://youtu.be/TgiOjhkiuhw

Ash.J.Williams

StopWatch wrote: »

I'm unsure how I feel here,but In what way is the writer of Father Ted an expert panel member?

That's a silly thing to say..

suicide_circus

seamus wrote: »

He's probably gone off the rails tbh. In a discussion where he insists that trans is a mental illness, Linehan probably needs psychiatric help of his own. It's an obsession for him at this stage.

What kind of medical professional diagnoses gender dysphoria?

ironwalk

suicide_circus wrote: »

What kind of medical professional diagnoses gender dysphoria?

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria
Psychiatrists

chicorytip

ironwalk wrote:

I'm not confused at all. The question was asked as to how many women "are comfortable sharing a dressing room with a pre-op trans woman".

Why are we even having this discussion and why does RTE deem the topic worthy of broadcast. Just how many of these "transgender" people are there in a small country like ours? The number must be minute. I don't know if this kind of transformative surgery is available in the Republic of Ireland and as to what exactly it entails, well, my mind boggles. It would be interesting to see any Dept. of Health data on the matter, if it's available. Let's talk about issues that really matter such as the huge problems of alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness and suicide affecting our young people.
Let these shemale freaks bugger off to England with themselves.


Mod-Banned

Topgear on Dave

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Why not? There’s no indication that RTÉ is going to give in, is there?

I dont know but Iv seen the twitter campaign against him.

His ideas are dangerous, we can repeat the highly successful section 31 censorship of SF and the campaign to ban discussion of abortion :pac::pac:

ironwalk

chicorytip wrote: »

Why are we even having this discussion and why does RTE deem the topic worthy of broadcast. Just how many of these "transgender" people are there in a small country like ours? The number must be minute. I don't know if this kind of transformative surgery is available in the Republic of Ireland and as to what exactly it entails, well, my mind boggles. It would be interesting to see any Dept. of Health data on the matter, if it's available. Let's talk about issues that really matter such as the huge problems of alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness and suicide affecting our young people.
Let these shemale freaks bugger off to England with themselves.

See in the interest of fairness, I can't agree with you there.
You could insert "homosexuality" for transgender into your paragraph.
How acceptable would it be to say "let these homosexual freaks bugger off to England with themselves".
That's just another version of Irish intolerance, exporting our issues.

No, I'm delighted RTE are having a debate. I hope it's a fair one. I hope they hear equally from both sides and that they insist on facts not feelings.
I hope that whatever small number of transgender people there are in this country, that they feel safe and supported.
I hope they understand that, while we're trying to work out how best to support them, that we also have a duty to safeguard women who's rights may be impacted. (And of course, transmen, who seem to get lost in this debate).
I hope that whatever your struggle or difficulty is, that we support you, even if its not one of the "huge problems" that we have.

JMNolan

RTE will 100% cave rather than appear to be in anyway other than completely loony left.

chicorytip

ironwalk wrote:

See in the interest of fairness, I can't agree with you there. You could insert "homosexuality" for transgender into your paragraph. How acceptable would it be to say "let these homosexual freaks bugger off to England with themselves". That's just another version of Irish intolerance, exporting our issues.

No, honestly. The actual number of gay/lesbian people among the general population is 2 to 3 %. Transgenders, I would reckon, would number a one ten-thousanth of that figure. My feck off to England comment was not meant literally, of course, but really, we need to have a sense of perspective about how highly issues such as this should rank in our national discourse.

One eyed Jack

chicorytip wrote: »

Why are we even having this discussion and why does RTE deem the topic worthy of broadcast.

We’re having these discussions because it’s a topic that’s becoming more and more relevant for people in modern Irish society. RTÉ deem the topic worthy of broadcast because it’s considered a current affairs topic, just like many of the issues you mentioned below which RTE have also covered in great depth and detail on numerous programmes, not just current affairs programmes.

Just how many of these "transgender" people are there in a small country like ours? The number must be minute.

It’s true, the number that we know of is minuscule, but that number has been increasing exponentially over the last decade or so. It’s still minuscule, but there appears to be an increasing trend in the number of people who identify as transgender. Therefore RTÉ having noticed how the trend is going in the UK and the backlash that is happening over there, decide in their wisdom that it’s a topical issue ripe for generating controversy and increasing their own viewership - give the two extremes a platform, grab popcorn, sit back and watch them go at it. Advertisers will pay a fortune for ad slots because they know people will be watching. RTÉ makes more money.

I don't know if this kind of transformative surgery is available in the Republic of Ireland and as to what exactly it entails, well, my mind boggles. It would be interesting to see any Dept. of Health data on the matter, if it's available. Let's talk about issues that really matter such as the huge problems of alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness and suicide affecting our young people.
Let these shemale freaks bugger off to England with themselves.

There’s plenty of data available from the HSE and numerous other organisations, but the reality is that in Ireland at least, there’s not much more to it as of the passing into law of the Gender Recognition Act of 2015 than “I think, therefore I am” so to speak - one only has to apply to be legally recognised as their preferred gender, and set in motion a series of events that from that day on they are to be legally recognised as their preferred gender. Surgery is not required, and more and more people who identify as transgender are foregoing surgery in favour simply of social transition, which is peeing off a lot of the “Old Guard” as it were, who complain about people identifying themselves as transgender when they haven’t gone through medical or surgical transition and have no interest in or intention of doing so.

The Bishop Basher

suicide_circus wrote: »

What kind of medical professional diagnoses gender dysphoria?

ironwalk wrote: »

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria
Psychiatrists

We're not allowed go there in these discussion for some reason.

Probably because facts get in the way of their ideology.

AndrewJRenko

ironwalk wrote: »

AlphabetCards wrote: »

I get the impression they are. Ask how many are comfortable sharing a dressing room with a pre-op trans woman.

Dial Hard wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but it wouldn't bother me in the least. Same as I have no issue sharing unisex bathrooms with men.

Dial, my elderly mother would get a start and would probably apologise, imagining that she had wandered into the wrong changing room. It would bother her. She wouldn't be able to wander around the dressing room.

There are lots of women who are from non-Christian religious backgrounds who would have a problem with using a changing room or bathroom with men.

I'd have a problem with my teenager sharing with a teenage male-bodied person, in a dressing room, or a Scout tent, or a bathroom etc etc etc.

And what if there is a female sexual predator in the tent or in the bathroom?

One eyed Jack

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And what if there is a female sexual predator in the tent or in the bathroom?

Don’t be silly, there’s no such thing as a female sexual predator!



Cat, meet pigeons

seamus

ironwalk wrote: »

How has it got to the point that being concerned with woman's right is now equivalent to being "anti-trans".

Nobody was talking about women's rights. I was responding to a post which claimed that most women would agree with Linehan, i.e. that most women were anti-trans.

freshpopcorn

chicorytip wrote: »

Why are we even having this discussion and why does RTE deem the topic worthy of broadcast. Just how many of these "transgender" people are there in a small country like ours?

Well I started the thread because I saw the article online regarding the Primetime debate.
I think we're having this debate because we need to find the right way to go forward for our country.
People are generally unsure of what the whole thing entails and how a young kid may decided they want to change gender.
What age can they start the process?
How will this matter be discussed in school?
When do you say yes/the doctor says yes to your kid changing gender?
What are the consequences?
We all knew guys who may have being a bit feminine or girls who were masculine grow up or may have being ourselves. Will it be sold to these people they may have gender issues in the future.