Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

P_1

Zorya wrote: »

That would be fine if they didn't peddle lies about biology.

I'm a big believer in letting people make their own minds up about something. Shouting one side of the argument at the other side just isn't going to do anyone any good bar people who sell headache tablets

Creol1

klaaaz wrote: »

Seems the objectors here should take the issue up with the top HSE endocrinologist in the country who deals with transgender people, he and a member of his team was on the Primetime program. It looks like that his medical professional qualifications are inferior to a bunch of boards posters here!

I don't see anyone disputing the authority of an endocrinologist to comment on his area of expertise, i.e., endocrinology. There are many other aspects to the issue, such as the psychological issue of believing one is a man in a woman's body, the sociology of gender, and the legal framework governing this.

If we were to restrict people's right to have an opinion on the subject to those who are appropriately qualified, you would have to find someone who is a consultant doctor, psychologist, lawyer and sociologist all at the same time.

Zorya

P_1 wrote: »

I'm a big believer in letting people make their own minds up about something. Shouting one side of the argument at the other side just isn't going to do anyone any good bar people who sell headache tablets

Tell that to the ideologues in Mermaids being consulted regarding primary school curriculums in the UK

P_1

ceadaoin. wrote: »

And police how others are allowed to refer to themselves. We can't be women anymore, but "cis" women. If talking about periods we can't be women then either but "menstruators" or even worse, "bleeders". Not pregnant women or mothers but "pregnant people". Even the dictionary definition of "woman" is offensive now.

Seems like they really just have a problem with the word "woman" and the people of that class being able to define themselves and speak about issues that effect them and only them.

Oh and by they I'm referring to the extremely vocal minority of extreme transactivists, not all trans people

Is anyone really policing what people can refer to themselves as though bar a loud minority? Call yourself whatever you want to call yourself and let others call themselves whatever they want to call themselves.

One eyed Jack

klaaaz wrote: »

Seems the objectors here should take the issue up with the top HSE endocrinologist in the country who deals with transgender people, he and a member of his team was on the Primetime program. It looks like that his medical professional qualifications are inferior to a bunch of boards posters here!

Are you referring to Professor Donal O’ Shea?

SEX-CHANGE SPECIALIST WARNS OF SURGERY REGRETS AS TWO IRISH PEOPLE REVERSE PROCEDURE

The country’s leading doctor who helps transgender people change their sex is now supporting three patients who regret having surgery.

Professor Donal O’Shea has told Extra.ie that their trauma highlights the need for proper support and resources to prevent post-operative remorse.

This country has a high rate of adults who regret treatment, he said.

Sixty adults have travelled abroad for sex-change operations since 2012, according to the HSE, and we can reveal that 40 Irish teenagers who have questioned their gender identity are getting treatment in the UK — a five-fold increase in four years, according to the British Clinic that treats them.

Meanwhile, two of the three people who Prof O’Shea is helping to deal with post-op regret are going through the ordeal of reversing their sex-change. Prof O’Shea, consultant endocrinologist at St Vincent’s and St Columcille’s Hospitals in Dublin, said that while data is difficult to compile, he believes the level of regret in Ireland is higher than it is internationally.

While some transgender support groups do not wish to highlight the number of people who suffer from post-operative regret, Prof O’Shea believes it is important that people be made aware. He said three transgender people have died by suicide in the past five years, two had surgery and one was on hormone therapy.

P_1

Zorya wrote: »

Tell that to the ideologues in Mermaids being consulted regarding primary school curriculums in the UK

From what I can see Mermaids are a counselling service, not ideologues. Like they were set up by parents of trans children who've been through it and are there for other parents who find themselves in the same boat. Is importing that rediculous tribal rhetoric from the UK going to do anyone any good?

Wibbs

klaaaz wrote: »

Seems the objectors here should take the issue up with the top HSE endocrinologist in the country who deals with transgender people, he and a member of his team was on the Primetime program. It looks like that his medical professional qualifications are inferior to a bunch of boards posters here!

If he and his team medically and scientifically stand behind the statement: Some transgender people seek to have surgery to permanently alter their biological sex then I and any biologist would take great issue with that statement. He and his team are most certainly coming from a position of patient sympathy and care and that's perfectly understandable and welcome on that score alone, however it is not medically, scientifically, or biologically true. Unless he and his team have come up with a monumental scientific breakthrough that changes biology down to the chromosome and tissue level. They haven't. And before the chimera/intersex argument comes along, the vast majority of transgender people are not in that group. The vast majority present as biologically male or female from birth.

Never mind that it's an obvious logic fail too. If surgery(and hormones, they left that part out) permanently alters biological sex, what happens if a person wants to change back? It's rare, but it happens. Would they then say they could change them back to their original biological sex? After all that should be easier as the framework down to the cellular level is present.

Surgery can't change biological sex. This is a fact. And it's not permanent either. If they had said "Some transgender people seek to have surgery to alter to their preferred sex" I would have no objection, but the other statement is quackery not seen since balancing the humours was a thing.

Creol1

B0jangles wrote: »

I feel very badly for any remaining trans boards members, (if there even are any at this point, given the way things have been let go here). It must be soul-destroying to have your personal choice to live in a way that makes life bearable, maybe even wonderful, endlessly treated as a delusion and a threat.

Being trans is a choice then?

Ken.

Mod- Seeing as how this has moved on to the usual horsesh!te and the damn tv programme is done and dusted this is locked.