Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

freshpopcorn

Prime Time are airing a special about transgender issues on Tuesday night at 21:35. I believe it mainly involves young people but will also show older people who have transitioned.
Graham Linehan is due to appear on this but a petition has being started to have him removed. There was an article on the matter on an Irish newspaper website but it has being removed.
Where do people stand on this matter?

Personally I can see both sides on the matter when it comes to kids/teenagers transitioning and how it may effect them in the long term since it's such a big change to make but I'm no expert on the matter.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/opposition-to-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-being-on-tv-transgender-debate-skz8mp2rb


https://www.change.org/p/donogh-diamond-rte-to-remove-graham-linehan-piece-from-upcoming-prime-time-show-on-transgender-issues

VeryTerry

I can't imagine either side would want Linehan representing them. His head is gone.

StopWatch

I'm unsure how I feel here,but In what way is the writer of Father Ted an expert panel member?

hatrickpatrick

"Only host people who agree with the zeitgeist, blackball and censor everyone else." - idiots

freshpopcorn

StopWatch wrote: »

I'm unsure how I feel here,but In what way is the writer of Father Ted an expert panel member?

That's the bit I'm unsure of. Surely they could get somebody a little better.
He does seem a bit over the top in the ad for it.

HandsomeBob

VeryTerry wrote: »

I can't imagine either side would want Linehan representing them. His head is gone.

I'd be against Linehan on the subject but I've no problem with him saying his piece here. Why do you think he's lost his head?

He’s been an absolute c*nt for years. He was always extremely nasty to anyone who even politely disagreed with him, long, long before the Trans stuff. There is (or was) a website out there detailing how he used to sick his twitter followers on anyone who didn’t gargle his balls.



An issue which he has raised which I would agree with on the trans kids issue is how this effects children and vulnerable. Louis Theroux did an interesting documentary on trans kids in the US a number of years ago which showed parents actively encouraging their children into being transgender just because they showed some small indications such as a boy playing with dolls etc.

VeryTerry

HandsomeBob wrote: »

I'd be against Linehan on the subject but I've no problem with him saying his piece here. Why do you think he's lost his head?

Spends all his time arguing with no marks on Twitter to the point where the cops are getting involved. That's some seriously sad behavior.

KevRossi

StopWatch wrote: »

I'm unsure how I feel here,but In what way is the writer of Father Ted an expert panel member?

Because he's prepared to express his opinion on it in public where many others are not as they'd be openly vilified. It's also typical of the way RTE is going to get a shouty argument rather than a debate going.

VeryTerry

VeryTerry wrote: »

Spends all his time arguing with no marks on Twitter to the point where the cops are getting involved. That's some seriously sad behavior.

Eh the person who did it wasn’t better by sending his acolytes to his wife’s business

VeryTerry

Chaya Icy Underwear wrote: »

Eh the person who did it wasn’t better by sending his acolytes to his wife’s business

I don't really care. The fact that he got involved with anything like that over a Twitter argument is pathetic.

The Bishop Basher

Surely it’s up to RTE and the program makers to decide who they have on..

This sounds like an attempt at censorship because some people disagree with his views.

If that’s the case then I’m against it.

ceadaoin.

StopWatch wrote: »

I'm unsure how I feel here,but In what way is the writer of Father Ted an expert panel member?

He's been banned from Twitter and interviewed by the police due to complaints of transphobia from a frankly dodgy character who happens to be a trans woman. This person also targeted his wife's business and tried to incite people to attack it. And has targeted other people in the past. Anyway linehan refused to back down and continues to talk about the issues/problems with "self id". Seems they are going for the controversy angle to get viewers in. Why are people trying to stop it though? Surely if he really is a raging bigot then the more airtime the better so that people can see it?

super_furry

Jesus, he seems absolutely obsessed with attacking transgender people constantly. Not sure what qualifications he has to be held up as some font of knowledge on the issue, outside of really hating trans people.

Sir Oxman

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

"Only host people who agree with the zeitgeist, blackball and censor everyone else." - idiots

Yep, that's the way it goes now.
Led by the effervescent Roe McDermott saying people should "demand the media they want"
Get her.


Linehan has been invited AFAIK to share his experience in the UK of being piled on on Twitter, police being used to try scare him off opining on the woeful state of debate.
It's dystopian and needs to be talked about.

sligojoek

That would be an eccumenical matter

LoonyLovegood

I don't see why someone who doesn't live here is being interviewed for a piece on transgender laws in Ireland? I mean, he doesn't live here, hasn't for years, and has been cautioned by police for the way he's treated some trans people.

If you want to have someone who'd have similar views to him, find someone who's actually here. Don't be dragging the chaos that is anything to do with the UK over here. I mean, after his Christmas 'Graham is off twitter for Christmas, this is his assistant' idiocy, who'd trust him?

ButtersSuki

LoonyLovegood wrote: »

I don't see why someone who doesn't live here is being interviewed for a piece on transgender laws in Ireland? I mean, he doesn't live here, hasn't for years, and has been cautioned by police for the way he's treated some trans people.

If you want to have someone who'd have similar views to him, find someone who's actually here. Don't be dragging the chaos that is anything to do with the UK over here. I mean, after his Christmas 'Graham is off twitter for Christmas, this is his assistant' idiocy, who'd trust him?

I don’t agree with a lot of what Linehan has said, but that’s a pretty selective interpretation of what actually happened in that case - have you read the details of the full story there, particularly with regards to the complainant?

LoonyLovegood

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I don’t agree with a lot of what Linehan has said, but that’s a pretty selective interpretation of what actually happened in that case - have you read the details of the full story there, particularly with regards to the complainant?

Yup, I read it from the guardian here. I'm not saying the woman he harassed was right or wrong, but it is a fact that it happened.

facehugger99

Linehan seems like a right cnut, but he has the right to be.

These dangerous ideas of no-platforming anyone who doesn't agree with you should not be entertained by RTE.

Stuffed as it is to the gills with pinko liberals, I have no confidence in them.

batgoat

Recent things that Linehan has done is trying to get people to complain to the national lottery because a trans charity received money. This royally went wrong on him. Two hundred thousand had been raised for the charity as of last night including gaining the attention of Alexandria Cortez and Cher.

https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/20/18191023/hbomberguy-donkey-kong-64-twitch-stream-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-john-romero-chelsea-manning

The Bishop Basher

“She was also among the activists who pressurised a billboard company to remove a poster in Liverpool, which said the dictionary definition of “woman” was an “adult human female” because it was offensive.”

Stephanie Hayden sounds like a right pain in the hoop..

ceadaoin.

batgoat wrote: »

Recent things that Linehan has done is trying to get people to complain to the national lottery because a trans charity received money. This royally went wrong on him. Two hundred thousand had been raised for the charity as of last night including gaining the attention of Alexandria Cortez and Cher.

https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/20/18191023/hbomberguy-donkey-kong-64-twitch-stream-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-john-romero-chelsea-manning

It's a trans charity that actively campaigns for children to be able to transition. The woman in charge took her child to Thailand at the age of 16 for surgery. This is and was illegal in the UK, and is now illegal in Thailand. that's not ok. If you look into these things you'll find there's usually more to it than someone being a bigot.

JohnnyFlash

There’s something rather delicious about seeing this pontificating arsehole getting turned on by his own army of self-righteous liberal-at-all-cost twitter disciples.

batgoat

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It's a trans charity that actively campaigns for children to be able to transition. The woman in charge took her child to Thailand at the age of 16 for surgery. This is and was illegal in the UK, and is now illegal in Thailand. that's not ok. If you look into these things you'll find there's usually more to it than someone being a bigot.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/1026823/God-has-made-a-mistake-I-should-have-been-a-girl-Butterfly-ITV
Her child is now 25 and living a happy life. I think a sixteen year old can be perfectly aware of what her gender is so I'm not finding this a hugely big deal. You can get killed at war at age 16 in the UK but transitioning is a big no no? Also Linehan has a pretty long history of being terribly in relation to transgender people, he likens it to bulimia on the prime time thing... That's frankly not okay or accurate.

keano_afc

No dog in this fight, so happy to let them eat each other.

suicide_circus

RTE probably can't find anyone else to risk being publicly destroyed (including their ability to earn a living and having their families attacked) for espousing the idea that perhaps pumping confused children full of drugs might not be the best idea.

You know an ideology is on shaky ground when it's proponents go after detractors with such tenacious vitriol. it's like scientology or the Stasi.

Cockford Ollie

The whole transgender thing is ludicrous. Complete fantasy land stuff. Good on Graham for voicing the truth.

Mod-Banned

Rochelle

Linehan comes across as a grade twat but but nothing as bad as the mentally-ill radical trannies, shower of freaks.



Mod: banned

Mad_maxx

Rennaws wrote: »

Surely it’s up to RTE and the program makers to decide who they have on..

This sounds like an attempt at censorship because some people disagree with his views.

If that’s the case then I’m against it.

The PC ayotollahs issued a fatwah against linehan long ago so rte are now in the firing line for "platforming" him

fatknacker

I loved when he tried to get his Twitter army to go after the Scottish comedian with the "gas the Jews" dog....and get responded to by a volley of the Nazi Father Ted clips that he created. Sanctimonious hypocrite.

Mad_maxx

fatknacker wrote: »

I loved when he tried to get his Twitter army to go after the Scottish comedian with the "gas the Jews" dog....and get responded to by a volley of the Nazi Father Ted clips that he created. Sanctimonious hypocrite.

He's an insufferable Liberal but the crazies within his own tribe have now outcast him for heresy

conorhal

suicide_circus wrote: »

RTE probably can't find anyone else to risk being publicly destroyed (including their ability to earn a living and having their families attacked) for espousing the idea that perhaps pumping confused children full of drugs might not be the best idea.

You know an ideology is on shaky ground when it's proponents go after detractors with such tenacious vitriol. it's like scientology or the Stasi.

I donno, RTE have a habit of using such figures as 'controlled opposition' when it comes the any contentious issue on which they come down heavilly on one side. When this is case the 'dissenting voice' they pick to 'represent the other side' is often some wildly unhinged individual intending to discredit whatever position RTE are pushing.

One eyed Jack

conorhal wrote: »

I donno, RTE have a habit of using such figures as 'controlled opposition' when it comes the any contentious issue on which they come down heavilly on one side. When this is case the 'dissenting voice' they pick to 'represent the other side' is often some wildly unhinged individual intending to discredit whatever position RTE are pushing.

Yep, it’s been seen in numerous “debates” of late on RTÉ shows like Prime Time - the unhinged individual makes the loony toons look moderate by comparison. I’d have loved to see a “debate” on this issue between Ruth Coppinger and Linehan.

Actuality, no. Now I think about it I wouldn’t :pac:

ohnonotgmail

conorhal wrote: »

I donno, RTE have a habit of using such figures as 'controlled opposition' when it comes the any contentious issue on which they come down heavilly on one side. When this is case the 'dissenting voice' they pick to 'represent the other side' is often some wildly unhinged individual intending to discredit whatever position RTE are pushing.

In that case they could not have made a better choice.

keano_afc

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yep, it’s been seen in numerous “debates” of late on RTshows like Prime Time - the unhinged individual makes the loony toons look moderate by comparison. I’d have loved to see a “debate” on this issue between Ruth Coppinger and Linehan.

Actuality, no. Now I think about it I wouldn’t :pac:

With fire and tridents. Everyone's a winner.

Bob Harris

Freedom freedom freedom but say anything that goes against my opinion or belief and you will be silenced. Ah yes, freedom.

No harm having him on, his attitude might wake them up to the reality of life and their struggles to accept it.

Sir Oxman

super_furry wrote: »

Jesus, he seems absolutely obsessed with attacking transgender people constantly. Not sure what qualifications he has to be held up as some font of knowledge on the issue, outside of really hating trans people.

But he doesn't

Bannasidhe

I read somewhere that Linehan will not be on Primetime - don't know if that is true or not.

I question his inclusion on the Panel as I think - given his extreme anti-trans views - that it is an attempt by RTE to have, as one poster described it, a shouty show rather than any kind of reasonable debate.

Having said that, I would be of the opinion to let him voice his opinion - with strict moderation so any attempt at drawing comparisons to Nazis and generally abusive statements be quickly dealt with. But this is RTE and I have yet to see them be able to moderate anything in an impartial manner.

There are issues. That is the truth of it. Most of them are scaremongering but some aren't. There are some in the Lesbian community, for example, who feel that butch identity is being rendering invisible as there is pressure coming from the radical trans activists to 'admit' to 'really' being a transman - some very thoughtful, fully supportive of people transitioning, women feel this way but will not voice it in public for fear of being labelled transphobic.

There are also many who worry that radical transactivists are generally advocating a binary view of gender that seeks to reinstate a very outdated view of masculinity and femininity.

Add to that that many women are fed up with the likes of Jenner speaking for the 'experience' of women when they feel that as Jenner interacted with the world in a male persona for decades she did not really experience what is to be treated as female by society and therefore cannot truly claim to be the expert she portrays herself as...express this and quickly cries of T.E.R.F drown it out.
This is not to deny there are T.E.R.F.s who are just as radical and unbending in their position and will never accept any transwoman as a 'real' woman. A view I do not share.
There are transpeople expressing serious concerns about what is happening. They are being silenced.

These are genuine areas of concern that should be discussed. But there are two sides becoming entrenched through lack of dialogue and the considered thoughtful views on both sides are being subsumed into the extremes and battle lines are drawn.

I think Linehan is not the person to engage in thoughtful dialogue on this as his views are on the extreme anti-trans side. He was invited to generate controversy.

ceadaoin.

batgoat wrote: »

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/1026823/God-has-made-a-mistake-I-should-have-been-a-girl-Butterfly-ITV
Her child is now 25 and living a happy life. I think a sixteen year old can be perfectly aware of what her gender is so I'm not finding this a hugely big deal. You can get killed at war at age 16 in the UK but transitioning is a big no no? Also Linehan has a pretty long history of being terribly in relation to transgender people, he likens it to bulimia on the prime time thing... That's frankly not okay or accurate.

Um, just no. 16 year olds don't have the capacity to make that choice and for good reason. Gender dysphoria is a thing obviously, if they still feel that way as an adult then fair enough but a teenager or younger, no they don't have the capacity to make that decision. Just how we wouldn't let a 16 year old get a vasectomy or a hysterectomy or any other life altering elective surgery. I mean honestly, can you say that as a 16 year old you never made bad decisions that at the time you were sure about? I know I did.

All studies show that the vast majority of children with gender dysphoria grow out of it if left to their own devices , without medical intervention.

Also please can the people saying he "hates" transgender people give examples of this hate. As far as I can see calling out people who advocate surgery on children or people who change names to avoid detection due to being criminals is the extent of it, and that's not exactly "hate" is it?

Calhoun

Not quite sure how to take this one, I am not sure exactly how Graham is an expert or a voice of the issue but I don't really know too much about him.

At the same time they do need an opposing voice on teh debate it cannot be all one way.

Like it or not trans people are not going to have it as easy as other members of their community because of advocacy of treatment on young kids and the growing trend to remove kids from parents.

Sir Oxman

If anything, he's anti 'stifling of the debate unless you agree with every single thing that the trans orthodoxy dictates'
Which is ironic considering the petition to have him stifled.

Anyhow, I'm sure the extremis of trans orthodoxy will implode very shortly all on it's own.

I am bemused by the fact being brought up on twitter by people complaining about him that he is non-resident.

The same folks were delighted with the "home to vote" campaign during the last referendum.

jam_mac_jam

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Um, just no. 16 year olds don't have the capacity to make that choice and for good reason. Gender dysphoria is a thing obviously, if they still feel that way as an adult then fair enough but a teenager or younger, no they don't have the capacity to make that choice. Just how we wouldn't let a 16 year old get a vasectomy or a hysterectomy or any other life altering elective surgery.

Also please can the people saying he "hates" transgender people give examples of this hate. As far as I can see calling out people who advocate surgery on children or people who change names to avoid detection is the extent of it and that's not hate?

If you question anything about the current transgender position then you hate them. You are literally not permitted to discuss anything.

ohnonotgmail

Calhoun wrote: »

Not quite sure how to take this one, I am not sure exactly how Graham is an expert or a voice of the issue but I don't really know too much about him.

At the same time they do need an opposing voice on teh debate it cannot be all one way.

Like it or not trans people are not going to have it as easy as other members of their community because of advocacy of treatment on young kids and the growing trend to remove kids from parents.

He is neither, he is just very opinionated. That seems to be enough these days.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He is neither, he is just very opinionated. That seems to be enough these days.

I dont think he is an expert at all. It'd be like me going on to explain being a woman.

(I'm a 40 year old man)

ohnonotgmail

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I dont think he is an expert at all. It'd be like me going on to explain being a woman.

(I'm a 40 year old man)

I reckon you would do a much job explaining women than Linehan would explaining trans issues.

super_furry

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He is neither, he is just very opinionated. That seems to be enough these days.

It's lousy. It seems that if someone shouts and screams loudly enough against something and draws enough attention to themselves, they're handed a career as a professional agitator. It's how you end up with people like Katie Hopkins.

ironwalk

I don't think GL sets himself up as an expert at all.
What I take from it is that he questions where the line is between the rights of people who identify as being a trans woman, and the rights of women.

For instance, if you've a teenage daughter, do you want her going shopping on a Saturday, into the dressing room in Penneys and any fella who wants to, can say that he's a woman, and in he goes after her?

Do you want your granny having personal care on a hospital ward with a bloke who still has a beard and all his bits, but who decides to identify as a woman for a few days a week?

And don't say "that'll never happen". It mightn't have happened here, yet, but it has in other countries.

I've no problem with an adult man dressing and presenting in any way that he wants...off you go. But as soon as s/he wants to step on my toes or those of my daughter, then I'm going to draw a line.

So, the issue isn't about trans rights, it's about holding the rights of women in balance.

How Soon Is Now

Remember the good old days in Ireland when no one knew or talked about any of this kinda ****e? That was nice....

ohnonotgmail

ironwalk wrote: »

I don't think GL sets himself up as an expert at all.
What I take from it is that he questions where the line is between the rights of people who identify as being a trans woman, and the rights of women.

For instance, if you've a teenage daughter, do you want her going shopping on a Saturday, into the dressing room in Penneys and any fella who wants to, can say that he's a woman, and in he goes after her?

Do you want your granny having personal care on a hospital ward with a bloke who still has a beard and all his bits, but who decides to identify as a woman for a few days a week?

And don't say "that'll never happen". It mightn't have happened here, yet, but it has in other countries.

I've no problem with an adult man dressing and presenting in any way that he wants...off you go. But as soon as s/he wants to step on my toes or those of my daughter, then I'm going to draw a line.

So, the issue isn't about trans rights, it's about holding the rights of women in balance.

I dont understand your dressing room argument at all. Are womens changing rooms communal? Do they not have separate cubicles like they do in mens changing rooms?