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Diesel engines - why did the Government encourage the Irish driving population

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    #32
    Renegade Mechanic
    Registered Users Posts: 7,934 ✭✭✭Renegade Mechanic


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    We already have one of the highest electricity costs in Europe....

    Doesn't matter, the Irish govt do not let money go. Something will replace the 60% revenue lost every time someone plugs in :(


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    #33
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,774 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    What I find funny is scrappage is available from almost every manufacturer and every car, excluding electric

    The real lower/zero emission car

    Joke it is :p

    Hyundai have €4k scrappage on the Ioniq EV, brand new on the road price is now €26k

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



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    #34
    tphase
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭tphase


    Water John wrote: »
    Diesel have lower CO2 emissions TMK, that was the simplistic analysis. This doesn't take into account particle emissions which are the biggest problem with diesel, esp in urban areas.
    Electric cars are becoming readily available. The VW Group have a big push in that direction. 2nd hand Nissan Leafs are available now.
    modern diesels produce lower particulate emissions than petrols ( https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105985784 ) but they do produce NOx which is an issue in urban areas. High particulate emissions tend to be associated older diesels.


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    #35
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,396 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    slave1 wrote: »
    Hyundai have €4k scrappage on the Ioniq EV, brand new on the road price is now €26k

    Can you actually get them though? Is that ex the €1000+ delivery charge they do when there’s scrappage?


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    #36
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,396 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    tphase wrote: »
    modern diesels produce lower particulate emissions than petrols ( https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105985784 ) but they do produce NOx which is an issue in urban areas. High particulate emissions tend to be associated older diesels.

    Particles themselves aren’t the same though.


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    #37
    MarkHenderson
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭MarkHenderson


    Had our Diesel I30CW for over 10 years now and haven't had as single issue with it bar a rear brake light recall despite 210,000klms. Saved a fortune on fuel as well as tax. Thanks Greens.


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    #38
    MarkHenderson
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭MarkHenderson


    demanufactured wrote: »
    For those of you wondering what comes out of a diesel exhaust.

    Floor iti n every gear when taking off and look the rear view mirror, you'll see a lovely cloud of particulate.

    Done this many times and nope.


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    #39
    tphase
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭tphase


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Particles themselves aren’t the same though.
    not sure what you mean by that


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jude13 wrote: »
    And it will happen again, there are great savings for EV's now (running costs and tax) however when the full impact of the mining of the battery components, the source or electricity to power them (carbon produced), and most importantly how to get rid of these massive batteries after 8+ years then the EV's will be hit too.

    No they won't, because that's all bull**** fakenews that has been disproven by study after study.

    Even when powered by the dirtiest of coal-fired plants, and even including lifetime co2 (i.e. co2 generated by production, transport, usage and disposal) EVs still come out as significantly cleaner than any diesel/petrol.

    You're uncritically parroting nonsense.

    ElectricyMixesClimateChange%20%281%29.png
    https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/electric-cars-emit-less-co2-over-their-lifetime-diesels-even-when-powered-dirtiest-electricity

    This is a good breakdown of how industry studies/press releases use creative statistics to spread FUD: https://www.euractiv.com/section/electric-cars/opinion/are-electric-vehicles-cleaner-the-evidence-points-firmly-in-one-direction/

    Here's a 7 year old study (using out of date figures that are overly generous to ICE co2 emissions): https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1530-9290.2012.00532.x


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    #41
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No they won't, because that's all bull**** fakenews that has been disproven by study after study.

    Even when powered by the dirtiest of coal-fired plants, and even including lifetime co2 (i.e. co2 generated by production, transport, usage and disposal) EVs still come out as significantly cleaner than any diesel/petrol.

    You're uncritically parroting nonsense.

    ElectricyMixesClimateChange%20%281%29.png
    https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/electric-cars-emit-less-co2-over-their-lifetime-diesels-even-when-powered-dirtiest-electricity

    This is a good breakdown of how industry studies/press releases use creative statistics to spread FUD: https://www.euractiv.com/section/electric-cars/opinion/are-electric-vehicles-cleaner-the-evidence-points-firmly-in-one-direction/

    Here's a 7 year old study (using out of date figures that are overly generous to ICE co2 emissions): https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1530-9290.2012.00532.x

    sorry, you're posting unsupported nonsense too, from a body which, like our DoE espoused diesel-as-saviour barely a decade ago.............but have now changed out minds.

    There is no way the EV impact is anywhere near known yet: for good or ill - and either way, all Govt's will be out for their pound/kilo of flesh. There's no way the Dept of Finance/Exchequer will be letting fuel excise dwindle to zero to appease the Dept of Environment et al...

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #42
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,764 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I think the alternative fuel options was one of the reasons diesel cars were promoted. They thought the use of green fuels in diesels cars would take off, but here we are and there are still no green fuels on the market.


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    #43
    demanufactured
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭demanufactured


    MarkHenderson wrote: »
    Done this many times and nope.

    What car do you drive?


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    #44
    pmce4
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭pmce4


    Tesla developing a space program I reckon to dump the batteries in space


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    #45
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,739 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    It's more of a case of choose your poison. There will be negatives no matter what your choice of vehicle.

    Main issue is consumption.


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    #46
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,764 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    There would be no need for diesel cars if petrol was cheaper than diesel. But its profit before the health of the people, that's Ireland. Should be a total ban on diesel cars, and make petrol 1 euro a litre full stop, a petrol car will use a bit more fuel so the difference to the government would be nothing.


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    #47
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    On a side note, I think diesels were popular here because of the above economic reason, but also people likes the power of a turbo diesel. Most drivers coming from a 1ltr petrol found a 2ltr turbo diesel a massive improvement in power and more refined to drive at motorway speeds. It was the excuse the Irish driver needed to get a car with a proper engine.


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    #48
    Borderfox
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    The Green party wanted to save the planet but not the people


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    #49
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,091 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Diesels overall are not as bulletproof as they once were, this is mostly thanks to the DPF. You can stall a modern diesel too which was impossible on the old PD units.
    Tax changes are needed to stop people buying them.
    S


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    #50
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,459 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Diesels overall are not as bulletproof as they once were, this is mostly thanks to the DPF. You can stall a modern diesel too which was impossible on the old PD units.
    Tax changes are needed to stop people buying them.
    S

    Agree that changes are needed but I think they should try to ensure that people who don't need them can buy a reasonable alternative.
    Lot's of big mileage drivers will still need diesel for a while yet.


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    elperello wrote: »
    Agree that changes are needed but I think they should try to ensure that people who don't need them can buy a reasonable alternative.
    Lot's of big mileage drivers will still need diesel for a while yet.

    Whilst on holidays in northern Norway they were saying that it is really only possible to use diesel in those very remote harsh regions where fuel insurance is very much required.


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    #52
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,396 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Diesels overall are not as bulletproof as they once were, this is mostly thanks to the DPF. You can stall a modern diesel too which was impossible on the old PD units.
    Tax changes are needed to stop people buying them.
    S

    I reckon it’s more to do with common rail engines than ones with DPF


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    #53
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    I think the alternative fuel options was one of the reasons diesel cars were promoted. They thought the use of green fuels in diesels cars would take off, but here we are and there are still no green fuels on the market.




    Excellent point. Another panacea that turned out to be bunkum.
    Incidentally the diversion of land to biofuels in that period caused a spike in world food prices in 2011 that helped spark the Arab Spring, and the resulting 7 years of war and revolution from Syria to Tunisia and the ensuing migration crisis here in Europe.

    The issues with Biofuels were also pointed out at the time but ignored in favour of industry hype.


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    #54
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Borderfox wrote: »
    The Green party wanted to save the planet but not the people

    ...and succceeded only in screwing both.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #55
    theoneeyedman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,366 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Ironically European legislation is responsible for more harmful diesel emissions. In the push to make them cleaner, they produce more NOX now than before. The hotter a diesel engine runs, the more efficient it becomes, but produces more NOX.

    The ones that were driving this agenda in Europe, the Germans, were then fiddling and cheating the emission test results as well remember. No real repercussions for them, but the policy certainly aided German car exports across Europe.
    When you make the rules, you can ignore them when you want.


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    #56
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,739 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    There would be no need for diesel cars if petrol was cheaper than diesel. But its profit before the health of the people, that's Ireland. Should be a total ban on diesel cars, and make petrol 1 euro a litre full stop, a petrol car will use a bit more fuel so the difference to the government would be nothing.
    Yeah, because petrol is great for you too... :rolleyes:


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    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    galwaytt wrote: »
    sorry, you're posting unsupported nonsense too, from a body which, like our DoE espoused diesel-as-saviour barely a decade ago.............but have now changed out minds.

    There is no way the EV impact is anywhere near known yet: for good or ill - and either way, all Govt's will be out for their pound/kilo of flesh. There's no way the Dept of Finance/Exchequer will be letting fuel excise dwindle to zero to appease the Dept of Environment et al...

    "You're posting unsupported nonsense" quoting where I provide 3 separate supporting references. Is there something wrong with you? I can provide another 10 if you'd like though I'm sure you'll read none and pretend they all come from the same mysterious 'body'.

    It also is perfectly possible to analyse lifecycle EV impact, saying it isn't doesn't make it true - it just makes you ignorant and makes it clear you've never actually looked into the subject.


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    #58
    Tuco88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Tuco88


    Today I seen a 1987 Scania rigid truck in mint condition, loaded to the rafters with gravel. I was behind it from the JLT heading to Dublin.

    It was roaring going uphill, black smoke out the stack while the driver was sledging up the gears 😀.

    Ironically its probably the real definition efficient, Well maintained very long service time. Local mechanic gets work, its probably seen out 2 other trucks in its time.

    Anyway the Diesel engine is our generations steam engine.


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Whilst on holidays in northern Norway they were saying that it is really only possible to use diesel in those very remote harsh regions where fuel endurance is very much required.
    .

    Correcting my typo -insurance = endurance!


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    #60
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    the car companies were lying
    that explains it partly


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    #61
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    Tuco88 wrote: »
    Today I seen a 1987 Scania rigid truck in mint condition, loaded to the rafters with gravel. I was behind it from the JLT heading to Dublin. It was roaring going uphill, black smoke out the stack while the driver was sledging up the gears ��.
    Must've had a good note to it.

    I often see a bull-nosed Scania near where I live. Its a V8 with a great tune that you can hear coming a mile off.


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