Some Zoe questions

KCross

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

heres a thing - with the zoe battery rental , sure they say under 80% (or is it 70%?) they will replace dead cells or fit a refurbished battery or in extreme case replace with new battery ... but fine that's the part/battery taken care of .. but what about 'fitting/installation/labour' charge? - I have not seen any mention of that .. and that is more than likely a very extensive job replacing a battery on an EV .. I bet they really have to strip it all down ... sounds expensive $$$$$


Our hotpoint washing machine - 5 years warranty on parts when we bought it new. Read the reviews on how much the labour costs are if the part goes, fine the parts are under warranty but the labour/fitting is not.

Read a review once - bloke paid 349eur for hotpoint washing machine the drum or the control board went within 3 years ... parts were quoted as free ... the labour was going to come to 280eur for washing machine repair man to call out and fit the parts .. they just went out and bought another washing machine (better than their present one) for 250euro

Maybe it is expensive Andy, but the thing is no one knows because, as its been repeatedly said, it doesnt happen. The batteries dont die.

There are 2011 Leaf's that have not gone below the warranty point and the warranty is long since gone.

There are some companies who will refurbish the battery for you for <€2k but they are in the UK.

Nissan offer a refurbushed battery for, I think, about €4k all in. They announced that pricing about 6 months ago.
EDIT: Its $3k (thats dollars) and in Japan initially. Not sure what their rollout plans are but the price for refurbishing is dropping considerably.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1116042_nissan-leaf-refurbished-batteries-offered-for-older-electric-cars-in-japan


You're over-thinking everything and it sounds like you havent even driven one yet. Get a test drive please it will answer alot of the questions you are posing.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I just watched a youtube video the other day where a guy test drove a Renault Zoe for 7 days and as it was charging up (think by granny cable) he had to unlock the doors and open the drivers door to see on the dashboard at the steering wheel to light up the display to see how much the battery had charged to.

Really?? - do you have to go through this palarvour to see at what stage the battery is charged to? - can you not just press a button on the remote and peer through the drivers window at the dash to see how much the battery has charged to? - or see it on a phone app?

in fact he unlocked the car and opened the drivers door once and the battery display didnt show on the dash, so he had to close the drivers door again , then lock it, then unllock it and open the drivers door again and then it came up on the display.

Cant speak for the Zoe but every other EV I've seen has 3 lights on the dash that are visible from the front of the car (i.e. where you plug it in) that shows what % the battery is at... <33%, 34-66%, 67%+. They are on all the time while the car is charging so no need to start the car or hop into it.

ethernet

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I just watched a youtube video the other day where a guy test drove a Renault Zoe for 7 days and as it was charging up (think by granny cable) he had to unlock the doors and open the drivers door to see on the dashboard at the steering wheel to light up the display to see how much the battery had charged to.

Really?? - do you have to go through this palarvour to see at what stage the battery is charged to? - can you not just press a button on the remote and peer through the drivers window at the dash to see how much the battery has charged to? - or see it on a phone app?

in fact he unlocked the car and opened the drivers door once and the battery display didnt show on the dash, so he had to close the drivers door again , then lock it, then unllock it and open the drivers door again and then it came up on the display.

I haven't found it to be an issue day-to-day:

1. Most EV users charge at night while asleep - so you don't need to check its progress - it's just ready to go in the morning
2. If you are rapid charging, the etiquette is to stay in the car or get back to it quickly after popping into the shop and doing whatever you need to do. Again, don't really need to check the percentage while away from the car as you should, in theory, be sitting it in while you get enough juice to keep going to your next stop or final destination.
3. In many cases, there is an app for your phone so you can check it if you must

ELM327

kceire wrote: »

Andy, it sounds like you don’t want an EV.
That’s fine. Move on.

Some of your posts, with all due respect are rubbish. They are factually incorrect and are more along the lines of hearsay or pub talk.

I get the loads of questions


I have high functioning aspergers and as such I like to analyze the fck out of everything before making the decision, I researched for 2 years before buying my first EV.


With Andy however it seems like he is borderline taking the proverbial as every question is met with a negative response. Like you say, pub talk.

Andy From Sligo

kceire wrote: »

Andy, it sounds like you don’t want an EV.
That’s fine. Move on.

Some of your posts, with all due respect are rubbish. They are factually incorrect and are more along the lines of hearsay or pub talk.

With all respect not at all would these things put me off . To me they are niggly things that you could get with an ICE car as well .

Am I causing any harm to anyone discussing or looking for advice on what I have heard or seen and looking for further information from an owner or someone who extensively deals in EVs on a regular basis. ?

Boards whole idea revolves along the lines of discussion does it not. If people stopped discussing stuff on boards would it not shut down?

Andy From Sligo

ELM327 wrote: »

I get the loads of questions


I have high functioning aspergers and as such I like to analyze the fck out of everything before making the decision, I researched for 2 years before buying my first EV.


With Andy however it seems like he is borderline taking the proverbial as every question is met with a negative response. Like you say, pub talk.

I'm the same as you in the respect of analysing things over and over again until it becomes an obsession.

However you have been diagnosed with high functioning aspers (as my son has been diagnosed with) and I haven't been (diagnosed that is) but I could have traits of it (as people have said to me before I am osessed with a lot of stuff and issues) so maybe I have , but I haven't took it further or got it checked out . But I do think some people on here / on boards in general could be a little more understanding and less stressed out and annoyed that I seem to ask a lot of questions

KCross

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I'm the same as you in the respect of analysing things over and over again until it becomes an obsession.

However you have been diagnosed with high functioning aspers (as my son has been diagnosed with) and I haven't been (diagnosed that is) but I could have traits of it (as people have said to me before I am osessed with a lot of stuff and issues) so maybe I have , but I haven't took it further or got it checked out . But I do think some people on here / on boards in general could be a little more understanding and less stressed out and annoyed that I seem to ask a lot of questions

I dont follow you around boards Andy but I have had the joy of being on the FTTH thread with you and you have pi**ed alot of people off on that thread.... you are currently having the exact same "argument" with people on that thread and that has been repeated a few times over the last 6 months that I was on the thread (thankfully I have now unsubscribed as I have FTTH)....
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109289320&postcount=7003


You are starting to do similar here. The common denominator is you not everyone else.


I think most of us welcome questions, it is, as you said, what boards is for and we all had questions before we bought our first EV's but you need to do some more research and not just post every thought that comes into your head.

Do a search on the forum before you post as well as nearly all of your questions have been asked and answered already.... and finally... please go for a test drive.

Then come back with your questions.

Or alternatively, carry on as you are if you think its other peoples lack of understanding is the issue. Anyone can use the boards block function if they dont want to "listen" to you.

Markcheese

Mike9832 wrote: »

Would you rent a battery for your phone?

Yup.. If my 4 or 5 grand phone was gonna be useless without it...

I'm sure I've seen a leaf on done deal with really poor range, if it got below your normal daily use, it'd be as good as useless...

KCross

Markcheese wrote: »

I can still see the worth of a battery rental leaf...you pay 5 or 6 grand for a battery rental zoe, and you don't have to worry about the battery degrading below a certain level...
I've had a 6 grand vehicle (was worth more than that to me) that just died, and was told by 3 different mechanics, scrap it... It cost me to get the thing towed,
If I had to pay 50 / 60 quid a month (what I pay a week for diesel) to ensure my cheapo vehicle stays alive, that sounds like a good deal...

The thing is, thats not what the battery rental is. The battery doesnt die like an engine does. It slowly degrades. The battery rental ensures that when it goes below 70% they will bring it above 70%. They wont give you a new battery.

You will be paying thousands for something that might never be called upon and if it did you can get it fixed anyway just that by paying battery rental you are gifting the rental company the money if the battery stays above 70% (which is more likely than not). Why do that?


Not to mention that resale will be extremely difficult and the perceived savings/insurance you are getting is likely to be eroded by your ability to sell it on.

Mike9832 wrote: »

I have never read of a Zoe or Leaf battery dieing

Degrading a bit, yes

Your covering a risk that is 99.9% not going to happen

I dont agree with you much but thats exactly it. It made some sense in the early days when the batteries were entirely an unknown quantity. 9 years on and several chemistry improvements later more is known. The battery rental doesnt make sense anymore and that is why it has been discontinued by Nissan.

KCross

Markcheese wrote: »

Yup.. If my 4 or 5 grand phone was gonna be useless without it...

I'm sure I've seen a leaf on done deal with really poor range, if it got below your normal daily use, it'd be as good as useless...

Sell it on to someone who it is suitable to. Try selling the same car with battery rental and then you'll understand worthless.

Cars dont last forever either so it will come to a point where it will be useless and needs to be scrapped. Battery rental doesnt solve that. It just gives more money to the lease company.

Gumbo

Markcheese wrote: »

Yup.. If my 4 or 5 grand phone was gonna be useless without it...

I'm sure I've seen a leaf on done deal with really poor range, if it got below your normal daily use, it'd be as good as useless...

The thing is, once an EV battery gets to that stage, it will still have a particular kWh capacity. Cars need a lot of energy to move, so an EV with a 5kwh battery is worthless, but that 5kwh battery can be removed and reused in housing battery storage using night meter feeding or solar PV.

5kwh in a house goes a long way.

Markcheese

I can see that it's insurance (or more like assurance, since the battery will degrade slowly, eventually)..
I wouldn't bother with battery lease on a new or nearly new vehicle..(so I can see why Nissan ditched it)
But on an 8 to 10 year old one, that I can get cheaply (maybe) that will be guaranteed to be kept at minimum 75% to 80%,(as long as that suited)
, would save me money, and get me into an ev,
That I probably couldnt otherwise afford, yeah I'd go that,
Obviously it's horses for courses..
(and at the moment I haven't even got 5 or 6 grand for a Zoe..)

BENDYBINN

Markcheese wrote: »

I can see that it's insurance (or more like assurance, since the battery will degrade slowly, eventually)..
I wouldn't bother with battery lease on a new or nearly new vehicle..(so I can see why Nissan ditched it)
But on an 8 to 10 year old one, that I can get cheaply (maybe) that will be guaranteed to be kept at minimum 75% to 80%,(as long as that suited)
, would save me money, and get me into an ev,
That I probably couldnt otherwise afford, yeah I'd go that,
Obviously it's horses for courses..
(and at the moment I haven't even got 5 or 6 grand for a Zoe..)

Absolutely agree, A ten yr old Zoe would easily be worth a couple of grand...
Even including the battery rental it would be very cheap motering for the next five or six yrs.

A leaf on the other hand would struggle to get you home from mass

BENDYBINN

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Absolutely agree, A ten yr old Zoe would easily be worth a couple of grand...
Even including the battery rental it would be very cheap motering for the next five or six yrs.

A leaf on the other hand would struggle to get you home from mass

Depending on how far the Church is lol.

I think we should wait the 10 years before we judge the leaf battery.

It would be nice to see some leafspy stats.

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Depending on how far the Church is lol.

I think we should wait the 10 years before we judge the leaf battery.

It would be nice to see some leafspy stats.

I careful owner, a nun, who only used it to drive to mass, on Sundays... (But not back cos no charge point in the church car park)...

Andy From Sligo

BENDYBINN wrote: »

...Absolutely agree, A ten yr old Zoe would easily be worth a couple of grand...

except for a Zoe were'nt out in 2008 - or do you mean when 2013 renault reaches 2023 you will pay a couple of grand on one?

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

I careful owner, a nun, who only used it to drive to mass, on Sundays... (But not back cos no charge point in the church car park)...

Lol,

I would bet there's plenty of battery capacity after 10 years for local driving.

Degradation is not linear and is most severe in the first couple of years.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

..I think we should wait the 10 years before we judge the leaf battery... .

True , I wish i could find the article where the Nissan tech said around 10 years a Leaf battery would last at least by which time the vehicle is EOL (which also seems to insinuate to me that the leaf is EOL after 10 years and should be changed for a new vehicle .. so what were they around 25k ? and last 10 years ? hmmm...


if I find the article again i will re-post .. unless I dreamt reading it, thats possible

Andy From Sligo

kceire wrote: »

... but that 5kwh battery can be removed and reused in housing battery storage using night meter feeding or solar PV.

5kwh in a house goes a long way.

thats an interesting thought / way of thinking

Lighting it would be good for.

but my cooker uses 7kw i think, shower uses 9kw , fan heater uses 2kw and so on

BENDYBINN

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

True , I wish i could find the article where the Nissan tech said around 10 years a Leaf battery would last at least by which time the vehicle is EOL (which also seems to insinuate to me that the leaf is EOL after 10 years and should be changed for a new vehicle .. so what were they around 25k ? and last 10 years ? hmmm...


if I find the article again i will re-post .. unless I dreamt reading it, thats possible

You’ve hit the nail on the head there, Andy

End of life in the battery industry is 70% capacity, however , at 70% the car is still perfectly usable, it's no longer usable when the range is insufficient for the owner but could still be more than suitable for someone else as 2nd car that does school /shop runs for many years to come and it can still plug into fast chargers for some extra range.

Gumbo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

True , I wish i could find the article where the Nissan tech said around 10 years a Leaf battery would last at least by which time the vehicle is EOL (which also seems to insinuate to me that the leaf is EOL after 10 years and should be changed for a new vehicle .. so what were they around 25k ? and last 10 years ? hmmm...


if I find the article again i will re-post .. unless I dreamt reading it, thats possible

2011 leafs are nearly 10 years old. Not long to wait and they are still perfectly useable.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thats an interesting thought / way of thinking

Lighting it would be good for.

but my cooker uses 7kw i think, shower uses 9kw , fan heater uses 2kw and so on

Them figures mean nothing. Unless you are using them all for hours on end. Your mixing up kw and kWh.

5kwh could get you about 50 mins in an electric shower, 10 hours of constant kettle boiling, 30 hours of watching tv.

The average Irish household uses about 11.5kwh of electricity per day.

ELM327

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thats an interesting thought / way of thinking

Lighting it would be good for.

but my cooker uses 7kw i think, shower uses 9kw , fan heater uses 2kw and so on

A 10 minute shower of a shower rated 9kW (which usually actually only draws 6-7kW) will use 7kW*(10/60), or 1.16kWh. You could shower for 4 days of the week out of a 5kWh battery!

Andy From Sligo

Markcheese wrote: »

..
I wouldn't bother with battery lease on a new or nearly new vehicle..(so I can see why Nissan ditched it)

I believe all new Zoe's and leaf's have been sold without battery rental since 2016 I think thats it

Markcheese wrote: »

But on an 8 to 10 year old one, that I can get cheaply (maybe) that will be guaranteed to be kept at minimum 75% to 80%,(as long as that suited)
, would save me money, and get me into an ev,

well Leaf's around 2011 are around and i think Zoe 2013 - so 2021 and 2024 respectively they will be 10 years old

Markcheese wrote: »

That I probably couldnt otherwise afford, yeah I'd go that,
Obviously it's horses for courses..
(and at the moment I haven't even got 5 or 6 grand for a Zoe..)

a lot of people cant outright. Us personally we would try go for CU loan although there are cheaper APR out there . But warned right off cars with this PCP thing and baloon payment.

Ditch the 9 Kw shower, if you got central heating which heats water the 9 Kw shower wastes a lot of energy !

Andy From Sligo

for the plethora of people saying 'why dont you go sit in a Zoe and and test drive one!' well we are away for a few days (weather permitting) and trying to get a test drive near to home where we live came to a full stop because none of the nearby dealers have no Zoe's to test drive (new or otherwise) so we have decided on tuesday or wednesday (thats the wife and i , because the wife will be buying it/using it) we are going to go up to Dublin on de train as they seem to have more of a selection up there and should get to test one and get the feel of it , might even come back with one if we lucky. (hence taking the train just in case ) or maybe we will come across a dealer whilst we are away with them on the forecourt

ELM327

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

for the plethora of people saying 'why dont you go sit in a Zoe and and test drive one!' well we are away for a few days (weather permitting) and trying to get a test drive near to home where we live came to a full stop because none of the nearby dealers have no Zoe's to test drive (new or otherwise) so we have decided on tuesday or wednesday (thats the wife and i , because the wife will be buying it/using it) we are going to go up to Dublin on de train as they seem to have more of a selection up there and should get to test one and get the feel of it , might even come back with one if we lucky. (hence taking the train just in case ) or maybe we will come across a dealer whilst we are away with them on the forecourt

There's a dealer in meath called EVelectriccarsales (or something like that) that currently have 2 Zoes for sale, and another called Electric Autos in kildare that have 1 for sale.


Best to contact the EV specialists and ask for a test drive, they will be a lot more knowledgeable and helpful than a normal dealer.

Andy From Sligo

ELM327 wrote: »

There's a dealer in meath called EVelectriccarsales (or something like that) that currently have 2 Zoes for sale,


Best to contact the EV specialists and ask for a test drive, they will be a lot more knowledgeable and helpful than a normal dealer.

thanks thats the one we have been in touch with - mathew , top man - he been very helpful

cant get t see it until next week tho

ELM327

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thanks thats the one we have been in touch with - mathew , top man

cant get t see it until next week tho

Yes they are in Trim I think. Have no personal dealings but have seen him and his advertising at some EV events and always seems to have some stock up at reasonable prices.


The black Zoe he has at 7k (battery lease) looks well.

Andy From Sligo

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes they are in Trim I think. Have no personal dealings but have seen him and his advertising at some EV events and always seems to have some stock up at reasonable prices.


The black Zoe he has at 7k (battery lease) looks well.

Yeah I love the look of the black one , looks in really good nick from the photos. My wife likes both colurs he has. the otherone is a sort of pale blue . and im not made keen on that colour myself but at the end of the day it will be the wif'es car.

He could even deliver outside our door fo 200eur extra if we interested but she wants to try one out first

BENDYBINN

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Yeah I love the look of the black one , looks in really good nick from the photos. My wife likes both colurs he has. the otherone is a sort of pale blue . and im not made keen on that colour myself but at the end of the day it will be the wif'es car.

He could even deliver outside our door fo 200eur extra if we interested but she wants to try one out first

Tut tut tut tut.......
Have you not been told by the experts on hear that only a fool goes for battery rental.......