Some Zoe questions

Andy From Sligo

unkel wrote: »

You need to factor in battery rental for the whole life of the car. And you need to factor in the penalty you have to pay Renault for the privilege of them scrapping the car for you

It will be sale proof, it will be worthless, you will be stuck with it. How many times do all of us here have to warn you against battery rental?

If you want an EV, but are strapped for cash, there's a Leaf up on DD with an asking price of €5,950. Buy it and avoid a world of financial pain...

oh right I am going to do a search for that then thats a really realy good price I wonder what the catch is . the used leafs I have been looking at much more expensive than that

You need to calculate the cost of the battery rental + cost of car this could work out not a lot more for the 30 Kwh Leaf, remember the SVE Spec with 6.6 Kw charger is the one to get.

beauf

This is the problem with the Zoe the Leaf is a better deal.

Andy From Sligo

KCross wrote: »

Deaf ears unkel... Andy is not for listening.... he has done the same on the Fibre to the Home thread in the Broadband forum.

In his own words....

theres no need to get personal about it - why would you bring up what I have discussed on a completely different thread on a completely different subject? - I dont understand why?

Andy From Sligo

Simona1986 wrote: »

That's literally madness, just get a leaf for the same money with no rental?!
Do you have another car?

it will be our main car

Andy From Sligo

unkel wrote: »

....
If you want an EV, but are strapped for cash, there's a Leaf up on DD with an asking price of €5,950. Buy it and avoid a world of financial pain...

right i see that thanks for letting me know- would we be better going for an older 11 KW 2011 leaf with a higher mileage of 95,000 km than a newer lower mileage 2014/15 22kWh Zoe (battery rental issue aside) I am wondering?

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

right i see that thanks for letting me know- would we be better going for an older 11 KW 2011 leaf with a higher mileage of 95,000 km than a newer lower mileage 2014/15 22kWh Zoe (battery rental issue aside) I am wondering?

I wouldn't do it, you could potentially have as little as 70-80 Km range on a early Leaf, as your main car, no, I would not do it you'll crack up on longer trips.

Best to stick to 2014 + at least as it had a better battery even at that range is a bit low for the infrastructure we have.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't do it, you could potentially have as little as 70-80 Km range on a early Leaf, as your main car, no, I would not do it you'll crack up on longer trips.

Best to stick to 2014 + at least as it had a better battery even at that range is a bit low for the infrastructure we have.

thanks, thats helpful advise.

I have already said to the wife realistically if she was going to go electric that realistically its best to do shorter trips in it especially on a used one .

So really she does lots of trips in Town near us, a few trips from Sligo to Frenchpark, very iodd times Sligo to enniskillen ,sometimes sligo to carrick on shannon or Boyle and any trips to dublin gets the bus or irish rail because wasnt too sure about trusting our present 16 Y/O ICE clio car

so it might be ok we might get by oK - we no means have to travel the country or do really long mileage by no means

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thanks, thats helpful advise.

I have already said to the wife realistically if she was going to go electric that realistically its best to do shorter trips in it especially on a used one .

So really she does lots of trips in Town near us, a few trips from Sligo to Frenchpark, very iodd times Sligo to enniskillen ,sometimes sligo to carrick on shannon or Boyle and any trips to dublin gets the bus or irish rail because wasnt too sure about trusting our present 16 Y/O ICE clio car

so it might be ok we might get by oK - we no means have to travel the country or do really long mileage by no means

What is your total budget again ?

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

What is your total budget again ?

we applied for 8grand from CU in the end , so its not really that much to play around with in the scheme of things I always said the next car we get i would like brand new but we all got to live within our means isnt that right

EDIT: just seen this leaf on DD €7,100 - 2012 - 73,000 km - 24KWH posted 55days ago though. might it be worth enquiring about?

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

we applied for 8grand from CU in the end , so its not really that much to play around with in the scheme of things I always said the next car we get i would like brand new but we all got to live within our means isnt that right

EDIT: just seen this leaf on DD €7,100 - 2012 - 73,000 km - 24KWH posted 55days ago though. might it be worth enquiring about?

If you can live with 70-80 Km range but my advice wold be to keep your money and save as much as you can another couple of years and the + side of that would be that the charging network should be a lot better by then.

Nurse the Clio along another while, if it's not giving you trouble then keep it.

And yes you are correct, live within your means , always a good plan.

CU interest is not cheap so all the more reason to keep saving.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

If you can live with 70-80 Km range but my advice wold be to keep your money and save as much as you can another couple of years and the + side of that would be that the charging network should be a lot better by then.

Nurse the Clio along another while, if it's not giving you trouble then keep it.

And yes you are correct, live within your means , always a good plan.

CU interest is not cheap so all the more reason to keep saving.

thanks for your helpful replies mad lad its give us something to chew over and think about - really appreciate your input and information on it cheers

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thanks for your helpful replies mad lad its give us something to chew over and think about - really appreciate your input and information on it cheers

No Bother, save up another few years and get a smaller loan pay less interest and maybe get a better car, perhaps the 30 Kwh leaf, it will be worth it !

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

You need to factor in battery rental for the whole life of the car. And you need to factor in the penalty you have to pay Renault for the privilege of them scrapping the car for you

It will be sale proof, it will be worthless, you will be stuck with it. How many times do all of us here have to warn you against battery rental?

If you want an EV, but are strapped for cash, there's a Leaf up on DD with an asking price of €5,950. Buy it and avoid a world of financial pain...

That leaf still has 10 bars I think, much better buy than a battery rental Zoe.

But the range is not good if only 1 car . You'd go bonkers on long trips.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

But the range is not good if only 1 car . You'd go bonkers on long trips.

I had a 24kWh leaf and did 500-700km trips in it.
Not great but perfectly doable if it's not too often. For the regular commute (average is 40km round trip) it's perfect and a better option than a Zoe with perpetual €80/mo battery lease

You did it because you were committed or had to but it would drive most people to the brink especially now with the charger situation being so bad and 40-60 Kwh cars it will get a lot worse before it gets better but even so , charging every 70 odd kms would drive most people mad even if there were loads of available chargers add to that cold battery charging isn't so fast and leaf 24 Kwh isn't so fast charging anyway.

ELM327

I was committed, sometimes I had to, and it did drive me to the brink!! lol.

It depends how many times the OP would drive more than 70-80km in a day. I find the limit for me isn't actually 70-80km, it's the range of the car + 1 fast charge. After that I get p1ssed off.

You can get p1ssed off too easily now, abandoned cars, 40-60 Kwh cars charging and the owner insists they need 90% charge etc, but hopefully charging per Kwh will persuade a lot of people that they need a lot less Kwh lol.

You can get p1ssed off too easily now, abandoned cars, 40-60 Kwh cars charging and the owner insists they need 90% charge etc, but hopefully charging per Kwh will persuade a lot of people that they need a lot less Kwh lol.

It's not just about the driver willing to do it it's if the whole family are willing to do it and it's not fair to expect everyone to be willing to wait at chargers more than maybe 1 time.

Andy From Sligo

once in a blue moon do we as a family do long trips in a car driving, its been like this for years , that (and finances) particularly why we have stayed with getting old bangers of the 2003 vintage) - this is why i think maybe we would be a good candidate for an EV now and now they have become more affordable (with all that tech!) for us with short journeys in and out town. The odd time going up to enniskillen (dont know if after brexit! ) thats it really. - all relitavely shortish trips we (or rather the mrs) will be doing.

Ah no, if doing long trips and having one car of an EV even I then would be shelving the idea and swaying/advising her more to go with an ICE car (msot probably would be a 3cyl 1ltr aygo or something)

unkel

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

that (and finances) particularly why we have stayed with getting old bangers of the 2003 vintage)

I had never owned a car newer than 2004 until I bought my brand new EV 2 years ago

Andy From Sligo

unkel wrote: »

I had never owned a car newer than 2004 until I bought my brand new EV 2 years ago

What is it you have Zoe or leaf again?

The older leafs on done deal are around 2011 ( they would be gen 1 leafs then I think) and Nissan had said the batteries in the leaf *should* last 10 years before deteriorating so that's put me off getting a leaf of that age , but then I kind of don't like the idea of battery rental on the Zoe but could get one of the 2014 variety so newer than what could get a leaf for. The idea of the battery rental coming with breakdown and tow to nearest charging point sounds get (especially when new to owning an event) but does that warrant the high monthly battery rental charges. It's a tough one to know what to do. I have just been reading (a uk) leaf Vs Zoe review in 2015 and Zoe has come out on top even with taking into account the battery rental charges.

Sound like you have a chance of Renault replacing worn out cells or replacing batteries if below certain charge but with Nissan leaf if battery goes you have to foot a bill for battery of 5000 dollars + fitting.for a leaf battery.

unkel

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

What is it you have Zoe or leaf again?

Hyundai Ioniq.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

The older leafs on done deal are around 2011 ( they would be gen 1 leafs then I think) and Nissan had said the batteries in the leaf *should* last 10 years before deteriorating

Nobody has ever said that. The battery starts deteriorating the first day after it's been produced. All 2011 Leafs will have significant battery deterioration at this stage, you'd be very lucky to get one with better than 2 bars lost already (out of 12). Degradation is slow though, even on first generation batteries like in the Leaf.

BENDYBINN

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to be clear on the Zoe battery rental.

The battery rental absolutely does not guarantee you a new battery under any circumstances.

All Renault are obliged to do is provide you with a battery at 75% capacity or above, so you shell out 6-7 K on battery rental and if your battery capacity drops to 75% they may only give you a reconditioned battery with around 80% capacity. Not worth it.

How much will you have spent on battery lease over 5,6,7 years ? save it and buy a Leaf 30 Kwh !

The only really good thing about Zoe is the brilliant AC charger which can charge at 22 Kw on an AC street charger !

A 30 Kwh Leaf is a good bit faster car, Zoe is very slow above about 60 Km/h.

Does that mean that even if the car is ten yrs old the battery has to be at %75?

BENDYBINN

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Does that mean that even if the car is ten yrs old the battery has to be at %75?

As long as you pay for battery rental they have to honor the agreement which you should carefully read by the way and get them to clearly show what battery capacity they guarantee.

But it's my understanding that they are not obliged to give you a new battery only battery that has been reconditioned abd that should be above 75% but does not guarantee anything above this.

It would be stupid if they replaced a battery that had 75% with 75% so I would be expecting at least 80%.

Again, read the terms and conditions carefully and get them to point out exactly what the monthly rental covers and get them to highlight it.

Add up the battery rental over x years and ask yourself if it's worth it because your car repayments will be the cost to repay the car + battery rental per month.

BENDYBINN

Deleted User wrote: »

As long as you pay for battery rental they have to honor the agreement which you should carefully read by the way and get them to clearly show what battery capacity they guarantee.

But it's my understanding that they are not obliged to give you a new battery only battery that has been reconditioned abd that should be above 75% but does not guarantee anything above this.

It would be stupid if they replaced a battery that had 75% with 75% so I would be expecting at least 80%.

Again, read the terms and conditions carefully and get them to point out exactly what the monthly rental covers and get them to highlight it.

Add up the battery rental over x years and ask yourself if it's worth it because your car repayments will be the cost to repay the car + battery rental per month.

Many thanks,
Given that we do not know what a leaf battery will be like in ten yrs this is a huge advantage in my opinion

unkel

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Many thanks,
Given that we do not know what a leaf battery will be like in ten yrs this is a huge advantage in my opinion

You prefer to pay 10 years battery rental? 10 * 12 * 69 = over 8 grand in rental alone. Plus 6k for the car is 14k in total

I'd rather pay 9k for the car and take my chances. 9k in total. Worst case scenario (very unlikely) I need a new 5k battery. 14k in total. Most likely I get to keep the 5k in my pocket...

BENDYBINN

Cost 15 leaf 14000

Cost 15 Zoe 7000. Rental 5000(6yrs). Total 12000