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Surviving R.Kelly Docu-series

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24

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    #32
    RWCNT
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    So every friendship between an adult and a minor is considered grooming now? News to me.

    How many children that you're not related to are you friends with, out of interest?


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    #33
    Spleerbun
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭Spleerbun


    Muppet Man wrote: »
    Genuine question... Does knowing who the man is make his music less good overnight? Or is it a point of principle?

    Coz I happen to think "I believe I can fly" isn't a bad tune. The fact that the singer is a peado doesn't change my view of the song.

    On that basis, you can delete anything by Jerry Lee Lewis ("great balls of fire"), whose third wife was his cousin and possibly as young as 13 by some reports (15 by others... But still.... incestuous Peadophilia...)

    And the brilliant elvis who at 25 was "dating" priscilla aged just 14 (she married him at 18)

    Obviously there are degrees of awfulness involved here and in no way would I condone R Kelly, but my point is, I can separate the music from the controversy.

    (FTR, "I believe I can fly" is the only R Kelly song I would know)

    Muppet man

    Was just going to post something along these lines. Actually had this discussion with some friends not too long ago. Someone doing bad things doesn't make any difference to what a song sounds like, I wouldn't deprive myself of a song I liked because the artists has a bad character.


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    #34
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,409 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    sugarman wrote: »
    Forget Brian Jones, Bill Wyman (their former Bassist) started a relationship with a 13 year old when he was 47! They married when she turned 18 and shortly after their divorce she admitted theyd been in a sexual relationship all that time.

    Patsy kensit?


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    #35
    oneilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭oneilla


    siobhan08 wrote: »
    I love I Believe I Can Fly when I was little as Space Jam was one of my favourite movies. It's a point of principal at this point, those people who are still buying his music and buying tickets to his concerts are lining his pockets with money that allows him to live the lifestyle he does, which kinda facilitates him in being able to do what he does to women. If wasn't living the lifestyle he does he wouldn't the access to people that he does.

    Like I've not listened to a Chris Brown song since he beat the crap out of Rihanna, I'm not supporting an individual with my money who beats his girlfriend


    It has been known for some time that many male musicians were hanging around with underage girls. See below:
    Decades before Drake dissed Tyga for dating 17-year-old Kylie Jenner, and R. Kelly faced multiple allegations of having sex with minors, the most visible rock stars in the world blithely made it with girls who were barely out of junior high school. It was all glorified in the pages of a glossy magazine called Star, which reveled in the underage groupie scene for five issues. Other publications, such as the rock ‘n’ roll bible Creem, flicked at the Sunset Strip doings without so much as a wagged finger. Hell, in 1973, a leisure-suited Tom Snyder devoted an entire show to interviews with some of LA’s highly desired teenage groupies.


    https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/i-lost-my-virginity-to-david-bowie

    And, before Chris Brown & Rihanna there was for example Phil Spector & Ronnie Spector.


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    #36
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Patsy kensit?

    Mandy Smith I think her name was


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    #37
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    sugarman wrote: »
    Forget Brian Jones, Bill Wyman (their former Bassist) started a relationship with a 13 year old when he was 47! They married when she turned 18 and shortly after their divorce she admitted theyd been in a sexual relationship all that time.

    Jimmy Page had a similar set up.


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    #38
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    RWCNT wrote: »
    How many children that you're not related to are you friends with, out of interest?

    I have no friends.


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    #39
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Steven Tyler from Aerosmith too. He pretty much bought a teenager off her parents and got them to sign away parental rights and then abandoned her after pressuring her into an abortion. Not that I'd have any of their music but turned me right off him.

    The behaviour of 70s/80s rock stars was shocking.


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    #40
    Love2love
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Love2love


    I've watched a couple of the episodes. Harrowing to say the least. So so many girls. He hung out at high school recruiting young girls, long before he made it big. I made the decision to never listen to his music again but my god I can't get the songs out of my head since!


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    #41
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I applaud those who survived his music.

    His parody stuff is good though https://youtu.be/zFosUj6A22c :)


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    #42
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    The late John Peel married a 15 year old back in the 70s and had a relationship with an underage girl in the UK.


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    #43
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Muppet Man wrote: »
    Genuine question... Does knowing who the man is make his music less good overnight? Or is it a point of principle?

    Coz I happen to think "I believe I can fly" isn't a bad tune. The fact that the singer is a peado doesn't change my view of the song.

    On that basis, you can delete anything by Jerry Lee Lewis ("great balls of fire"), whose third wife was his cousin and possibly as young as 13 by some reports (15 by others... But still.... incestuous Peadophilia...)

    And the brilliant elvis who at 25 was "dating" priscilla aged just 14 (she married him at 18)

    Obviously there are degrees of awfulness involved here and in no way would I condone R Kelly, but my point is, I can separate the music from the controversy.

    (FTR, "I believe I can fly" is the only R Kelly song I would know)

    Muppet man


    Good point and I feel the same way about Kevin Spacey. An excellent actor who made some brilliant movies.


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    #44
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Steven Tyler from Aerosmith too. He pretty much bought a teenager off her parents and got them to sign away parental rights and then abandoned her after pressuring her into an abortion. Not that I'd have any of their music but turned me right off him.

    The behaviour of 70s/80s rock stars was shocking.

    Apparently Jimmy Page would whip his 14 year old gf while dressed in a SS uniform.


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    #45
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Steven Tyler from Aerosmith too. He pretty much bought a teenager off her parents and got them to sign away parental rights and then abandoned her after pressuring her into an abortion. Not that I'd have any of their music but turned me right off him.

    The behaviour of 70s/80s rock stars was shocking.

    It started with a little kiss


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    #46
    The Crowman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭The Crowman


    siobhan08 wrote: »
    I've recently watched the Surviving R.Kelly docu-series that was broadcast over the weekend on Lifetime in America. I was shocked and disgusted by everything in the 6 episodes, I can PM the links for those of you who want to watch.

    I was born in the early 90's so that would be the reason why I didn't hear about them at the time, just so surprised that he seems to have flown under the radar for so long when it seems like rumours about the allegations were common in the latter half of the 90's in hometown of Chicago and America in general.

    Can anybody remember if the rumours of the allegations were known this side of the pond back in the late 90's and early noughties?

    The sex tape with an underage girl story broke in 2002 and was heavily covered at the time in the media.


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    #47
    Pac1Man
    Registered Users Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭Pac1Man


    Didn't he have kidney issues?


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    #48
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    A 30+ year old texting a 14 year old about "boys", how much they miss each other and setting themselves up as a great "friend" to them is highly inappropriate and textbook grooming. Get a grip. If you are a genuine poster you are an extremely creepy individual.

    I wouldn’t bother. That poster has referred to themselves as a creep on another thread and by all accounts seems to be into weird shlt


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    #49
    AskMeBollix
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭AskMeBollix


    Don't get me started on R Kelly,


    he response to this thread

    "I'm like so what I'm drunk
    It's the freakin' weekend baby
    I'm about to have me some fun"


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    #50
    vladmydad
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭vladmydad


    Perversion is widespread in the entertainment industry, that’s why it makes me sick that our society idolizes celebrities.


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    #51
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Few names being mentioned above. David Bowie was another one, yet people still idolise him. Amount of times I've heard the line 'things were different then' when you mention his 14 year old gf (and her friend) when he was in his late 20's. He was a nonce, end of.


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    #52
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    I find it hard to enjoy the music of paedophiles who abuse really young children. I'm not making some kind of moral stand or anything, I just can't enjoy the music. For instance I couldn't listen to a Lostprophets song without thinking about Ian Watkins raping a baby. I can't see myself listening to Michael Jackson again either. They're not that much of a loss (especially the former) but I'd like to be able to enjoy The Who again.

    If I stopped listening to the music of everyone who has ever had sex with girls under the age of sixteen though I'd have to throw about half my CDs in the bin.


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    #53
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,904 ✭✭✭circadian


    Corey Feldman come out recently enough to state that Jackson wasn't a peadophile, at least in his experience. He mentions that his anger at Jackson is centred around the fact that he'd devote all his time to you then just drop you when he got bored and had a very childlike attitude towards relationships.


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    #54
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    Not having sex with one child doesn't prove Michael Jackson wasn't a paedophile. It would be a stroke of genius to hang around with a famous child and not abuse him so if the truth ever came out there would be at least one person to defend him.

    I have no idea how people can believe that a grown man who built a Disneyland style amusement park at his house, gave alcohol to children and then slept in the same bed as them wasn't a child abuser. If an average person, and not someone who had recorded Thriller, did this no one in their right mind would believe him.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    Maybe he's just giving her advice that she can't get from anyone else. Your claim that it is textbook grooming is complete nonsense too.

    FFS, if that was your daughter you'd be fine with it then, me hole would ya.
    It's creepy and frankly most know that molesters come as friends. Most victims of grooming and the likes know their abusers. He's testing the water with a white young girl is all and we all know it c'mon.

    If you really are genuinely serious, maybe change your name from don't thank me to Nabokov!


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    #56
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,203 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    retro:electro wrote: »
    I wouldn’t bother. That poster has referred to themselves as a creep on another thread and by all accounts seems to be into weird shlt

    Just seems really into underage kids tbh.


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    #57
    8-10
    Registered Users Posts: 13,329 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    I can't see myself listening to Michael Jackson again either.

    I agree with the others but MJ was so clearly set up twice for money and had a c**t of a prosecutor after him for years. That was trial by media and fake news, amazed that people still hold an opinion of him to the extent of never wanting to listen to his music again. Nothing like the R Kelly stuff


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    #58
    Ragnar Lothbrok
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Ragnar Lothbrok


    vladmydad wrote: »
    Perversion is widespread in the entertainment industry, that’s why it makes me sick that our society idolizes celebrities.

    I have often thought this.

    There are interesting questions though. Are such people attracted to the industry, does the industry somehow change "normal" people, or is it that we get to hear about these people more just because they are already in the public spotlight?

    I suppose the same questions could be asked about the seemingly high proportion of religious orders involved in abuse.

    Personally, I tend to feel that the unreal world of the entertainment industry affects those involved, they begin to believe they can act any way they want to without consequence and are surrounded by sycophants telling them whatever they want to hear. Again, similar in many ways to the religious orders, at least until very recently.


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    #59
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    I remember there being a bit of chat around R Kelly back in the early 00s alright.

    Weren't Bowie, Jagger, and Jimmy Page linked with that famous under age groupie too?


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    #60
    8-10
    Registered Users Posts: 13,329 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    Not having sex with one child doesn't prove Michael Jackson wasn't a paedophile. It would be a stroke of genius to hang around with a famous child and not abuse him so if the truth ever came out there would be at least one person to defend him.

    I have no idea how people can believe that a grown man who built a Disneyland style amusement park at his house, gave alcohol to children and then slept in the same bed as them wasn't a child abuser. If an average person, and not someone who had recorded Thriller, did this no one in their right mind would believe him.

    Nobody's saying he wasn't really stupid and incorrect in his behaviour and attitude. He definitely had a bizarre outlook.

    But you're definitely adding 2 and 2 and getting 5 here. Being odd doesn't make you a child abuser. There's been no credible allegations of it from anyone either. The only 2 allegations I know of were the Jordy Chandler and Gavin Arviso ones which turned out to be money-grabbing nonsense fuelled by their crazy parents.

    Added to that you're trying to claim he gave alcohol to children.....there is no proof of that and he was acquitted of that charge. Gavin definitely stole wine from his house though....


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    #61
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Muppet Man wrote: »
    Genuine question... Does knowing who the man is make his music less good overnight? Or is it a point of principle?

    Coz I happen to think "I believe I can fly" isn't a bad tune. The fact that the singer is a peado doesn't change my view of the song.

    On that basis, you can delete anything by Jerry Lee Lewis ("great balls of fire"), whose third wife was his cousin and possibly as young as 13 by some reports (15 by others... But still.... incestuous Peadophilia...)

    And the brilliant elvis who at 25 was "dating" priscilla aged just 14 (she married him at 18)

    Obviously there are degrees of awfulness involved here and in no way would I condone R Kelly, but my point is, I can separate the music from the controversy.

    (FTR, "I believe I can fly" is the only R Kelly song I would know)

    Muppet man

    I think a key thing is whether or not the person is living. If they're profiting from you listening to their music than it's bad. If they're dead then it's w ahole different story.

    They don't even have to be dead. If all the royalties from the song went to a charity for abused children for example, we could listen to the music and know that he wasn't profiting from it and there's nothing unethical about it.


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