Brexit land

RasTa

Living over here the past year, this is a cheap cheap country. Work announced the other day that they will pay for the visa's of all EU staff and their spouses+kids. Didn't think it would happen(visas) and then yesterday the home office released this

https://twitter.com/ukhomeoffice/status/1078206349148708865

Us Irish don't need to apply but given the mess they are already making of people applying for British residence whom have lived here for years(Canadians etc) and Windrush mess this will be the end of the UK.

kneemos

Might discover where they're minimum wage workers come from.

namloc1980

Another Brexiteer promise that EU citizens would be unaffected is blown up. Wonder what the EU will do about UK citizens in the EU? Put them through the ringer I'd say.

Sky King

I'm totally torn between:

- Enjoying seeing the imperial / exceptionalist types get their comeuppance

- Disappointment at the departure of fellow Europeans that have more in common with us than most of the other countries

- Anger at how a hard brexit might fcuk us up here as collareral damage.

Torn!

TheValeyard

Sky King wrote: »

I'm totally torn between:

- Enjoying seeing the imperial / exceptionalist types get their comeuppance

- Disappointment at the departure of fellow Europeans that have more in common with us than most of the other countries

- Anger at how a hard brexit might fcuk us up here as collareral damage.

Torn!

There is something truly grotesquely fascinating about the whole thing. Part of me wants to see the whole thing come crashing down, just to see it, the more sensible part of me does not.

OldMrBrennan83

Sky King wrote: »

I'm totally torn between:

- Enjoying seeing the imperial / exceptionalist types get their comeuppance

- Disappointment at the departure of fellow Europeans that have more in common with us than most of the other countries

- Anger at how a hard brexit might fcuk us up here as collareral damage.

Torn!

There's a good foot on their throat at the moment. Can't pass up stepping down hard now, the whole world deserves a go at that one.

gimli2112

Was wondering why this was gone quiet and then remembered all the politicians are on holidays for a couple of weeks. Sure it'll be grand.

Yakuza

Patww79 wrote: »

There's a good foot on their throat at the moment. Can't pass up stepping down hard now, the whole world deserves a go at that one.

The thing is, by some act of unimaginable contortion, they've managed to put their own foot on their throat. Now that takes some doing...

Harry Palmr

Sky King wrote: »

I'm totally torn between:

- Enjoying seeing the imperial / exceptionalist types get their comeuppance

- Disappointment at the departure of fellow Europeans that have more in common with us than most of the other countries

- Anger at how a hard brexit might fcuk us up here as collareral damage.

Torn!

Collars should be grand.

Brexit just shows how nationalism and misplaced patriotism are likely to lead to ruination.

Capt'n Midnight

Considering how they have screwed up the initial registrations I wouldn't hold out much hope this will run smoothly.

McMurphy

I'm almost certain that the whole thing will be cancelled, the Brits surely aren't this stupid are they?


Some clusterfcuk from beginning to end and no mistake.

eggman100

No it won't be cancelled in a million years. To do that would be against the democratic will of the people and the ramifications would go on for a few generations at least, though I expect the EU to collapse well before then

Dakotabigone

All Leo’s fault.

Dyr

Lads, there's a few of us drilling up in the mountains to take back De Nort when it all inevitably goes pear shaped.

PM for details, we'll all be heroes.

mad muffin

Dakotabigone wrote: »

All Leo’s fault.

Leo and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Brexit :mad:

Grayson

eggman100 wrote: »

No it won't be cancelled in a million years. To do that would be against the democratic will of the people and the ramifications would go on for a few generations at least, though I expect the EU to collapse well before then

Even if they have another referendum and people vote against it?

Brexit is just a ****show of an omnishambles at the moment. The Tories are all over the place. And as for Labour, Corbyn is just happy to watch them burn so he can win an election. He has no actual policies except parroting the same crap about how he could negotiate a deal and there should be an election.

Even if there was an election tomorrow, what would the Tory manifesto have to say about Brexit. they can't even agree on a policy for their own party. Neither can labour. The only parties that seem to have a coherent plan are the SNP and Lib Dem's and they want to stay in the EU.

If they crash out without a deal it could knock off 7-8% of their GDP. Over a trillion pounds has fled the UK since the referendum. Loads of companies are relocating and every major business group is against a hard brexit.

Strazdas

Grayson wrote: »

Even if they have another referendum and people vote against it?

Brexit is just a ****show of an omnishambles at the moment. The Tories are all over the place. And as for Labour, Corbyn is just happy to watch them burn so he can win an election. He has no actual policies except parroting the same crap about how he could negotiate a deal and there should be an election.

Even if there was an election tomorrow, what would the Tory manifesto have to say about Brexit. they can't even agree on a policy for their own party. Neither can labour. The only parties that seem to have a coherent plan are the SNP and Lib Dem's and they want to stay in the EU.

If they crash out without a deal it could knock off 7-8% of their GDP. Over a trillion pounds has fled the UK since the referendum. Loads of companies are relocating and every major business group is against a hard brexit.

It's hard to see what outcome won't leave the UK in a very bad place. Even if Brexit was cancelled tomorrow, it would be followed by months and years of angry bickering and bitter recriminations. They're so entrenched and divided that every outcome is a bad outcome. The entire system is broken.

mad muffin

I suppose David Cameron had the ultimate pig fûck…

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

The only parties that seem to have a coherent plan are the SNP and Lib Dem's and they want to stay in the EU

Yet almost guaranteed a hard Brexit by voting against the withdrawal agreement.

El Weirdo

eggman100 wrote: »

No it won't be cancelled in a million years. To do that would be against the democratic will of the people and the ramifications would go on for a few generations at least, though I expect the EU to collapse well before then

What are all these benefits of Brexit that you mentioned in the Politics thread before you were banned?

kneemos

If they do Brexit Scotland and even Wales will look for sovereignty.
The only possible way to put an end to it is if they leave and want back in a few years after the economy tumbles.

Odhinn

eggman100 wrote: »

No it won't be cancelled in a million years. To do that would be against the democratic will of the people and the ramifications would go on for a few generations at least, though I expect the EU to collapse well before then

It may well be cancelled in the event of a second vote, which at this stage seems the sane option.

Grayson

Odhinn wrote: »

It may well be cancelled in the event of a second vote, which at this stage seems the sane option.

It may be cancelled at the last moment by the UK without a vote to avoid a hard brexit. It would be political suicide if a conservative does it but it may happen just to avoid crashing out.

The biggest problem is that there's a majority for a brexit that isn't hard, it's just that no-one can decide what non hard brexit it should be.

Beechwoodspark

Won’t happen or else Softest of soft brexits

Johnny Dogs

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

, the Brits surely aren't this stupid are they?

Simple answer to what may be a rhetorical question is yes! I've been living among them for some years now and I can 100% confirm one thing about the English (maybe not the British) - they are a nation absolutely addicted to misery!

Give them one good thing and they'll do everything they can between them to fcuk it up. I think it was Elton John who said that even on Christmas Day all they want to do is "turn on Eastenders to watch some kunt boil an egg and then kill himself". Don't remember the exact quote but there or thereabouts.

Infini

Come March 29th the United Kingdom will become the United Memedom of "Its Happening".

Doom Ron Paul making a comeback for this lol!

Capt'n Midnight

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Won’t happen or else Softest of soft brexits

A soft brexit means taking back control of immigration in return for handing over the UK Veto and seat at the table.

And non-EU immigration is on the up and up and May has COMPLETE CONTROL over that, it used to be her job so she has no excuses.

China and India together exceed May's 100,000 target.

And India have made it very, very clear that any trade deal with the UK will depend on three things. Visas, visas and visas.

Elemonator

I'm glad I'm not the only one with the inner desire to see it come all crashing down even though my intelligent self would not like to see it, good to know I'm not the only one that belongs in the crazy house :P

dr.fuzzenstein

Elemonator wrote: »

I'm glad I'm not the only one with the inner desire to see it come all crashing down even though my intelligent self would not like to see it, good to know I'm not the only one that belongs in the crazy house :P

If the UK crash out they will suffer, no question.
And there will be a thousand spin doctors getting paid huge money to "explain" (lie) to the people, how everything is the fault of the evil EU and if they just adopt a more stringent position, they will be given the unicorn poop and pink rainbows they have promised.
And the people will lap that bullsh*t up like it's milk and honey.
And I am wondering, would they eventually get it, or would they just get angrier and more belligerent and make it worse and worse for themselves.

super_furry

Play our cards right and we can get Scotland along with the North back.

Your Face

super_furry wrote: »

Play our cards right and we can get Scotland along with the North back.

Ah no, we're grand.

dr.fuzzenstein

super_furry wrote: »

Play our cards right and we can get Scotland along with the North back.

That would be awesome. (Scotland, not necessarily NI )
And so many Englanders would be spitting acid, blood and venom.
Sod the lying bastards.

mad muffin

Is it my imagination or has there been more, if Ireland doesn’t make a deal and the uk crashes out. Ireland’s going to get it on the nose?

So now it’s up to Ireland to make this shït storm work? Wtf…

whisky_galore

super_furry wrote: »

Play our cards right and we can get Scotland along with the North back.

Nope. Re NI...We are full up down here as far as nutters are concerned. Don't need any more, and could do without the hassle of propping up that statelet.
Dream on.

Johnny Red Cab

Revenge for 800 years will be so sweet. A dish best served cold.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure we've lived through the longest period of peace in Western Europe.

It all had to end sometime, and it'll end very soon.

Buford T Justice

Deleted User wrote: »

I could be wrong, but I'm sure we've lived through the longest period of peace in Western Europe.

It all had to end sometime, and it'll end very soon.

England aren't the empire they once were. Nothing more than a bunch of lager swilling curry eating uneducated racist on the sick slobs these days. At least the ones who voted to leave are. Hardly an end to peace in western europe.

Church on Tuesday

I feel sorry for half of the country who wished to remain.

Worked with some of these people over there, good people too.

It's a shame all round. The ones who voted to leave are the ones with nothing to lose as they'll mostly be dead in the next fifteen odd years and have retired in any event and the rest come from Stoke.

CalamariFritti

I agree with almost everything thats been said so far here.
Unfortunately thats not how a lot of the British/English see it. There is a strong narrative over there that the sole reason Brexit is such a mess is the bad bad EU thats all out to humiliate and punish them. Not their own fvck up at all. When things go tits up this is only going to get worse.

So I feel while in one way they deserve everything thats coming their way, I'm not sure I want to see it happening. This could get very very ugly yet.

But unfortunately we are already at a point of no return IMO. They cannot turn back from this without losing face completely, polarising things even more. And even if they did, what kind of EU would that be with them sitting back at the table? That would be an awkward first Monday morning meeting back in the EU...
It cant happen IMO, They were always difficult as it was, in the future they would just be impossible. Even if they cancelled Brexit tomorrow I think bridges are burned already and how could you trust them not to pull the same 2 year long stunt 6 months down the road?

No I think it's irreversible. The best outcome would now be to come at least sto ome sort of amicable solution that both sides can live with and then move on. All other options are just looking ugly.

Agricola

I just feel sorry for the 48% in 2016 (and probably a majority now) who are being held hostage by this total clusterfúck.

Could you imagine a governing party in Ireland comprising of a huge number of liars, sociopaths and disaster capitalists who were contriving to pull us out of the EU all for their own gain and completely against the national interest, and they managed to do this by a campaign of lies and deceit to fraudulently win a referendum. It beggars belief.

But there's no going back now. The Brits who voted leave will only get more entrenched the closer they come to a cancellation of Brexit or a second referendum and they'll just bring along a lot of luke warm remainers with them. A close run 2nd referendum with a similar result wont solve anything. They best they can do now is get through the softest of Brexits and practically stay in the EU when it's all said and done. Then all the mouth breathers can go back to doing what they were doing before 2015, ie not giving much of shít about the EU at all.

paw patrol

Buford T Justice wrote: »

England aren't the empire they once were. Nothing more than a bunch of lager swilling curry eating uneducated racist on the sick slobs these days. At least the ones who voted to leave are. Hardly an end to peace in western europe.

only a clown would make that statement (piece in bold)

In the event of a hard Brexit after an initial period of uncertainty and perhaps some issues that will lead to a chorus of smug "we told you so.." from Fintan O'Toole and his like-minded gimps, the UK will be fine. Not only will it be fine it will be free from the yolk of the EU and it's unelected mandarins.


The doomsday stuff in some posts here is laughable,

peasant

paw patrol wrote: »

... it will be free from the yolk of the EU and it's unelected mandarins.

*YOKE*

Your populist metaphor kinda loses its power once you bring eggs into it

paw patrol

peasant wrote: »

*YOKE*

Your populist metaphor kinda loses its power once you bring eggs into it

damn :eek:

you got me

fly_agaric

The Great British people have had enough of these eggsperts and eggheads with their chicken little talk of the economy taking a beating. They need to go to work on an egg.

Seth Brundle

paw patrol wrote: »

In the event of a hard Brexit after an initial period of uncertainty and perhaps some issues that will lead to a chorus of smug "we told you so.." from Fintan O'Toole and his like-minded gimps, the UK will be fine.

...except that from a trade perspective they'll be fecked most likely leading to a massive recession.
They already have lost significant multinational operations especially in terms of finance. This could easily over the next decade lead to a huge brain drain as the smart graduates GTFO of the UK.
Fine indeed. :rolleyes:

paw patrol wrote: »

Not only will it be fine it will be free from the yolk of the EU and it's unelected mandarins.

Jaysus not this crap again. The EU has less civil servants than Westminster.
Those in power are elected so I presume you're happy with them.
But that's all bad anyhow, right?

Capt'n Midnight

mad muffin wrote: »

Is it my imagination or has there been more, if Ireland doesn’t make a deal and the uk crashes out. Ireland’s going to get it on the nose?

So now it’s up to Ireland to make this shït storm work? Wtf…

We loose 4% growth. We always knew how dependent we were on the UK and the Tories have been mumbling about leaving for years. The ERSI report came out in Nov. 2015 so we haven't been blind-sided like UK keeps appearing to be.

So our growth would be only 1.5% for a year and then it's back to business as usual.

1.5% is a number the UK would be proud of right now, and a complete pipe dream for NI. In a Hard Brexit the UK would have negative growth and NI just drops off a cliff. We loose a year, NI looses a decade and that's not even a worst case.

Undividual

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

We loose 4% growth. We always knew how dependent we were on the UK and the Tories have been mumbling about leaving for years. The ERSI report came out in Nov. 2015 so we haven't been blind-sided like UK keeps appearing to be.

So our growth would be only 1.5% for a year and then it's back to business as usual.

1.5% is a number the UK would be proud of right now, and a complete pipe dream for NI. In a Hard Brexit the UK would have negative growth and NI just drops off a cliff. We loose a year, NI looses a decade and that's not even a worst case.

If I was living in England, I would still vote to leave.

The short term projections for the UK look bad or very bad but they're a major economy and will eventually bounce back. Trading with the rest of the world will definitely allow them to grow certain industries that the EU hampered (fishing/agriculture). I'd be surprised if economically they weren't back to where they are now in a decade.

The main thing will be that they can then control their own trade, legal system, borders, and social spending. If they want, they could cut corporate tax to 0%.
With the EU gearing up for their own army and lacking a comprehensive response on the migrant crisis, it looks like the UK might just be the first to see the changing of the tide... as bitter as the medicine may taste.

Capt'n Midnight

Undividual wrote: »

If I was living in England, I would still vote to leave.

The short term projections for the UK look bad or very bad but they're a major economy and will eventually bounce back. Trading with the rest of the world will definitely allow them to grow certain industries that the EU hampered (fishing/agriculture). I'd be surprised if economically they weren't back to where they are now in a decade.

Just in case you weren't aware, the UK imports most of it's food and fish.

UK and Dutch eat each others food due to preferences for different species. And six countries including us have pre EU fishing treaties.
Bruges has a document signed by Charles II himself back in 1666 granting eternal rights.

Grove's father had a fish factory. And Grove has sold out every chance he got. Half of NI's quota is held by one boat. 1% of Scotland's quota is held by inshore fishermen. Most of the UK quota is held by big , mostly foreign business. And the UK isn't imposing the existing rules. UK fishermen continue to be screwed over.

The main thing will be that they can then control their own trade, legal system, borders, and social spending. If they want, they could cut corporate tax to 0%.

Ever read fast food nation ?
EU health and safety rules imposed on US supplies.
If the UK cuts tax to 0% then the economy will tank. Thanks to Brexit uncertainty the UK treasury is already down £500m a week. And borrowing under the Tories has soared too.

With the EU gearing up for their own army and lacking a comprehensive response on the migrant crisis, it looks like the UK might just be the first to see the changing of the tide... as bitter as the medicine may taste.

The army thing is a barefaced lie.


As for immigration ? Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech complains about letting in "50,000 dependants", May let more than that in from China alone last year and they aren't even in the Commonwealth :rolleyes:

Undividual

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Just in case you weren't aware, the UK imports most of it's food and fish.

UK and Dutch eat each others food due to preferences for different species. And six countries including us have pre EU fishing treaties.
Bruges has a document signed by Charles II himself back in 1666 granting eternal rights.

Grove's father had a fish factory. And Grove has sold out every chance he got. Half of NI's quota is held by one boat. 1% of Scotland's quota is held by inshore fishermen. Most of the UK quota is held by big , mostly foreign business. And the UK isn't imposing the existing rules. UK fishermen continue to be screwed over.

Ever read fast food nation ?
EU health and safety rules imposed on US supplies.
If the UK cuts tax to 0% then the economy will tank. Thanks to Brexit uncertainty the UK treasury is already down £500m a week. And borrowing under the Tories has soared too.

The army thing is a barefaced lie.

As for immigration ? Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech complains about letting in "50,000 dependants", May let more than that in from China alone last year and they aren't even in the Commonwealth :rolleyes:

I take your points about the fisheries/agricultural policies and quotas but as of now those can generally be negotiated. I believe the UK gets 30% of its food imports from the EU. It is extremely unlikely that the EU will cut off its nose to spite its face when dealing with the UK, so much of those agreements will remain intact. The remainder should be replaceable by opening up trade relations with non-EU countries and through increased domestic production over time.

I'm not so sure about the EU army. Given the steps they've taken over the past 20 years to consolidate EU authority, an army would make sense.

“You would not create a European army to use it immediately,” Juncker told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper in Germany in an interview published on Sunday.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

Were those people from China working or studying? Were they financially dependent? I think its fair to say the high level of immigration in the UK over the last 2 decades was a driving force behind the Leave vote. Restricting social welfare payments to UK citizens would certainly help.

Capt'n Midnight

Undividual wrote: »

I take your points about the fisheries/agricultural policies and quotas but as of now those can generally be negotiated. I believe the UK gets 30% of its food imports from the EU. It is extremely unlikely that the EU will cut off its nose to spite its face when dealing with the UK, so much of those agreements will remain intact. The remainder should be replaceable by opening up trade relations with non-EU countries and through increased domestic production over time.

The EU need the UK more than the UK need them ?

At independence 96% of Irish exports used to go to the UK
Exports to the UK only provide 6% of Ireland's GPD.
The UK needs fresh food , we can export grass fed meat/dairy to EU at a premium.

I'm not so sure about the EU army.

We had a referendum over that and the Danes too got stuff in writing. Besides if the UK is a great power, rather than at the US's beck and call what's the issue ?

Were those people from China working or studying? Were they financially dependent? I think its fair to say the high level of immigration in the UK over the last 2 decades was a driving force behind the Leave vote. Restricting social welfare payments to UK citizens would certainly help.

I cba checking, because the UK cba checking either.
Until the UK imposes the existing laws on immigration and foreign trawlers there is no point in getting extra powers.

I do agree though that the Tories have been 'Restricting social welfare payments to UK citizens' just compare the dole on either side of the border.

Undividual

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The EU need the UK more than the UK need them ?

At independence 96% of Irish exports used to go to the UK
Exports to the UK only provide 6% of Ireland's GPD.
The UK needs fresh food , we can export grass fed meat/dairy to EU at a premium.

I didn't say that the EU need the UK more, just that it would be a politically driven mistake to cease trading with the UK completely.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

We had a referendum over that and the Danes too got stuff in writing. Besides if the UK is a great power, rather than at the US's beck and call what's the issue ?

Basically because an EU army is a terrifying prospect. When I see the failure of the EU's plan to deal with mass migration, the idea of a military force in those leaders' hands does not inspire confidence. The US for all its faults has not brought war to Europe. Would the EU do as good a job?

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I cba checking, because the UK cba checking either.
Until the UK imposes the existing laws on immigration and foreign trawlers there is no point in getting extra powers.

Fair enough.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I do agree though that the Tories have been 'Restricting social welfare payments to UK citizens' just compare the dole on either side of the border.

I sincerely doubt Ireland will be able to sustain our current dole payment or state pension rates indefinitely. We are an aging population with negative population growth heading towards an economy which will 'hopefully' be propped up by immigration. We may find ourselves in deeper water than the UK in 20-30 years.