22 syrian families arrive in ireland, then what?

bodhrandude

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

What does wueue mean?

_Kaiser_

Billy86 wrote: »

It is point blank racist to say you wouldn't get a taxi solely on the basis of the drivers ethnicity. Pretending that is not is very telling.

I'd agree that going to that extreme is a bit much, but if one genuinely feels that they're being slowly pushed aside in their own country then it's education and calm, open discussion that's needed as to why they feel like that, and what can be done to reassure them.

Jumping to the "you big racist" hysteria solves nothing, isn't true anyway, and only hardens attitudes towards migration.

Ireland HAS changed significantly in demographic terms in the last 25 years and that pace of change is accelerating faster in certain economically poorer areas than others. It's not racist to recognise or question what this means for the natives.

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You as usual have that completely the wrong way around.

This ridiculous self-loathing, white guilt complex and American buzzwords and terminology that sees racism and discrimination everywhere is irrelevant to Ireland. Despite looking similar on the surface, we're a completely different country and culture with a very different history.

But by all means, keep projecting your own issues and need for validation if that helps you get through the day.

And you, as usual, are completely ignoring the point. The poster specifically said they wouldn't use a taxi driven by a non-national. That is unequivocally a racist position. Yet you try and defend it with some deflection on to the liberals. So why are you ignoring this completely racist position as just "pointing out things around you"?

batgoat

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You as usual have that completely the wrong way around.

This ridiculous self-loathing, white guilt complex and American buzzwords and terminology that sees racism and discrimination everywhere is irrelevant to Ireland. Despite looking similar on the surface, we're a completely different country and culture with a very different history.

But by all means, keep projecting your own issues and need for validation if that helps you get through the day.

I've seen a handful of posters claim on a regular basis that nobody is Irish in Dublin or that it's majority non Irish. That's bull**** and very much so racist. I would say it's another person projecting their issues when they're making such outlandish claims.

whomitconcerns

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

And.... What difference does any of that make?

_Kaiser_

Captain Obvious wrote: »

And you, as usual, are completely ignoring the point. The poster specifically said they wouldn't use a taxi driven by a non-national. That is unequivocally a racist position. Yet you try and defend it with some deflection on to the liberals. So why are you ignoring this completely racist position as just "pointing out things around you"?

Read my post above this one and stop looking for racism everywhere to justify the nonsense you're reading on twitter or wherever you're getting this stuff from.

sk8erboii

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

‘Im not racist btw (; ‘

_Kaiser_

batgoat wrote: »

I've seen a handful of posters claim on a regular basis that nobody is Irish in Dublin or that it's majority non Irish. That's bull**** and very much so racist. I would say it's another person projecting their issues when they're making such outlandish claims.

There is a significant percentage of non-nationals in Dublin these days, (far in excess of 12% or whatever the official numbers are) in many areas. It's the same in many towns as well.

Now this isn't automatically a bad thing by any means, but the people immediately itching to pull their "racism level 12 card" are the ones with the issues, not those questioning how this will affect the social makeup of previously wholly native communities.

Also worth noting that not everyone can put themselves across in the same way. Maybe take a minute to look at the intent of the post before jumping to conclusions based on your own prejudices.

batgoat

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Read my post above this one and stop looking for racism everywhere to justify the nonsense you're reading on twitter or wherever you're getting this stuff from.

He says he leaves the city early because there's so many non nationals.... Ya, he's sounding pretty racist/xenophobic although I'd say it's more racism since he even takes jabs at the race of children. Fun fact for you two btw, Irish children can in fact be black.

Billy86

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'd agree that going to that extreme is a bit much, but if one genuinely feels that they're being slowly pushed aside in their own country then it's education and calm, open discussion that's needed as to why they feel like that, and what can be done to reassure them.

Jumping to the "you big racist" hysteria solves nothing, isn't true anyway, and only hardens attitudes towards migration.

Ireland HAS changed significantly in demographic terms in the last 25 years and that pace of change is accelerating faster in certain economically poorer areas than others. It's not racist to recognise or question what this means for the natives.

It's not 'on the extreme end of the spectrum' to point blank refuse a taxi based entirely on the drivers ethnicity, it is point blank definitive racism and nothing else, no different to hitting someone or shouting slurs at them based on nothing but their ethnicity.

Race: a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.

Racist: showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.

Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

This is what the poster pointed out, there is no jumping to hysteria at all about it. Far more dangerous than calling racism like the above for what it is, is the increasing trend of some to reflexively jump to the defense of racists because of a feeling of being on the same 'side' of the left/right political spectrum.

_Kaiser_

batgoat wrote: »

He says he leaves the city early because there's so many non nationals.... Ya, he's sounding pretty racist/xenophobic although I'd say it's more racism since he even takes jabs at the race of children. Fun fact for you two btw, Irish children can in fact be black.

I'll let the lad speak for himself, but nowhere do I see anything meeting the "f*ing foreigners!" label you're trying to ascribe to him.

What I read is a guy who feels uncomfortable and apart in places where he would have previously felt completely welcome. That's more sad than anything, and warrants discussion as to why he feels that way, how he might change that view, and yes reassurance that he's not an outsider in his own country.

On a larger scale, it highlights the disconnect between social media and political statements and press releases on migration into Ireland, and the feelings of many on the ground, and what can be done to improve this situation.

But again, so long as people like yourself and others here keep pulling the - ist and - phobic cards, all you're really doing is hardening attitudes on the other "side" and actually defeating whatever points you're actually trying to make. No one likes being shouted down or told what an idiot/racist/whatever they are. It just closes ears and minds to whatever legitimate point you may have.

Timberrrrrrrr

bodhrandude wrote: »

What does wueue mean?

Its the irish version of convefe

enricoh

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

Stayed in a hotel in Croydon in London last year, a multicultural melting pot to which many of our lefty boards members aspire to.
To go for a pint one needed their passport scanned, patted downfor weapons and facial recognition yoke to take a snap. Rival gangs killing each other being the reason.
An ideal weekend break for the leftys, but be warned if yer white u may experience a bit of the aul racism if in the wrong bar!

batgoat

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'll let the lad speak for himself, but nowhere do I see anything meeting the "f*ing foreigners!" label you're trying to ascribe to him.

What I read is a guy who feels uncomfortable and apart in places where he would have previously felt completely welcome. That's more sad than anything, and warrants discussion as to why he feels that way, how he might change that view, and yes reassurance that he's not an outsider in his own country.

On a larger scale, it highlights the disconnect between social media and political statements and press releases on migration into Ireland, and the feelings of many on the ground, and what can be done to improve this situation.

But again, so long as people like yourself and others here keep pulling the - ist and - phobic cards, all you're really doing is hardening attitudes on the other "side" and actually defeating whatever points you're actually trying to make. No one likes being shouted down or told what an idiot/racist/whatever they are. It just closes ears and minds to whatever legitimate point you may have.

Why should the race of children matter to him in the slightest? I only recently left Dublin after living there for years, I can comfortably say that he's engaging in a pretty racist view of the city. I hope this doesn't upset you too much. If a person engages in outright racism, they deserve to be called out.

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Read my post above this one and stop looking for racism everywhere to justify the nonsense you're reading on twitter or wherever you're getting this stuff from.

You are literally defending an outright racist and their comment. Every piece of the comment was at best hyperbole but to most clearly xenophobic. Foreigners everywhere. Black children all over the schools. Wouldn't use a taxi driven by a foreigner. I didn't even call him racist. I asked if he considered himself racist. i was genuinely curious. And after reading both those posts your first reaction was to defend him as just pointing out what he sees, which he clearly could only have been doing in a vastly exaggerated fashion. You're so obsessed with attacking the liberals you defend outright racism.



Do you not ever look at your posts and thing "Hey, maybe I'm on the wrong side of this one."

_Kaiser_

Captain Obvious wrote: »

You are literally defending an outright racist and their comment. Every piece of the comment was at best hyperbole but to most clearly xenophobic. Foreigners everywhere. Black children all over the schools. Wouldn't use a taxi driven by a foreigner. I didn't even call him racist. I asked if he considered himself racist. i was genuinely curious. And after reading both those posts your first reaction was to defend him as just pointing out what he sees, which he clearly could only have been doing in a vastly exaggerated fashion. You're so obsessed with attacking the liberals you defend outright racism.



Do you not ever look at your posts and thing "Hey, maybe I'm on the wrong side of this one."

The first thing that struck me about his post was how your immediate reply was to dismiss it with a claim of racism.

Could he actually be racist? Possibly.. But I like to actually read a post and the point/intent behind it before jumping to hyperbolic and unhelpful conclusions - this is after all a discussion forum, right?

In that context I see a poster who feels that there's been a huge influx of non-nationals in a short time and he feels uncomfortable with it and unwelcome in places he previously went.

Again, it's more sad than anything and surely people like you should be trying to correct that impression and educate rather than just jumping to the labelling and virtue signalling?

Now, think about what I've written here before you respond, and try to address the points above (happy to clarify anything you're unclear on), and maybe we could actually have a constructive discussion on this topic for a change.

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The first thing that struck me about his post was how your immediate reply was to dismiss it with a claim of racism.

Except I didn't. I simply asked if he considered himself racist. I specifically didn't address his individual points because they were hyperbolic nonsense.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Could he actually be racist? Possibly.. But I like to actually read a post and the point/intent behind it before jumping to hyperbolic and unhelpful conclusions - this is after all a discussion forum, right?


In that context I see a poster who feels that there's been a huge influx of non-nationals in a short time and he feels uncomfortable with it and unwelcome in places he previously went.

No, there is no question. He is a racist. It is very evident from his post. Whether it is from fear, ignorance or hate is irrelevant to that fact.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Again, it's more sad than anything and surely people like you should be trying to correct that impression and educate rather than just jumping to the labelling and virtue signalling?

I see. It's not the racists fault or the fault of the person defending and enabling him. It's the fault of the person who thinks he is a racist for not trying harder to educate him. But the problem with that is his racism is clearly based on a warped perception and not actual facts so even if it was my responsibility to correct his world view, I wouldn't be able to.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Now, think about what I've written here before you respond, and try to address the points above (happy to clarify anything you're unclear on), and maybe we could actually have a constructive discussion on this topic for a change.

No amount of patronising will change your defence of outright racism.

_Kaiser_

Fair enough Captain. There's no point in trying to debate with someone who just wants to cry racism and point score among like-minded individuals.

Me I'm more interested in what increased migration brings to Ireland, what the benefits and risks are, how it can be managed in a sustainable way given our limited resources and significant domestic issues, how we ensure that we don't repeat the mistakes of our European neighbours and how we bring people already here along with all these changes.

Enjoy your day

batgoat

It's telling when a poster happily ignores outright racism and complains when people point it out...

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Fair enough Captain. There's no point in trying to debate with someone who just wants to cry racism and point score among like-minded individuals.

Me I'm more interested in what increased migration brings to Ireland, what the benefits and risks are, how it can be managed in a sustainable way given our limited resources and significant domestic issues, how we ensure that we don't repeat the mistakes of our European neighbours and how we bring people already here along with all these changes.

Enjoy your day

Sure. You tactically retreat all you want. And next time you cry about being called a racist remember this occasion where you defended the position a man who refuses to use a taxi just because it's a foreigner driving.

_Kaiser_

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Sure. You tactically retreat all you want. And next time you cry about being called a racist remember this occasion where you defended the position a man who refuses to use a taxi just because it's a foreigner driving.

Ah if you need the "win" that badly then go for it :rolleyes:

I think trends outside this forum and indeed country through show that an increasing number of people are being tired of being talked down to and insulted on topics like this by people like yourself, and this is being reflected in hardening attitudes, election results, and new political movements.

The real danger is that the approach of people like yourself (to immediately jump to the accusations of racism, xenophobia or <insert Americanised term here>) is that some of these movements ARE actually dangerous and extreme and could lead to far bigger problems in the near future.

Most people place a value on national identity and belonging to a country of shared culture and history. In all the many posts and threads I've read on this subject here, I've yet to see ANYONE say "bloody foreigners. They should all be sent home. Ireland for the Irish!" (with whatever colourful phrases you might like to add to that).
Now maybe I've missed a few posts like that (I don't have time to read every one), but what I see is people asking how immigration benefits us, how do we avoid the problems seen elsewhere in Europe and the UK, how do we make sure that we're not inviting potentially dangerous individuals into our communities, how do we deal with the chancers and wasters (we have enough of our own), and how do we manage migration in a sustainable manner and give the newcomers opportunity to integrate and the locals time to adapt as well.

Now if you and others here consider those questions to be racist then I can't help you, but those discussions are happening with or without you or the even the likes of Leo and Coveney, and people want their questions heard and reasonable answers given. If not, I expect it'll be reflected in the ballot box before long as some of the incidents we've already seen in Ireland become more frequent.

This isn't scaremongering.. It's what's happening all over Europe. The only way to address it is through debate and open discussion.. Not something that can happen while dismissive labelling (and it comes from both "sides") is going on.

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah if you need the "win" that badly then go for it :rolleyes:

I think trends outside this forum and indeed country through show that an increasing number of people are being tired of being talked down to and insulted on topics like this by people like yourself, and this is being reflected in hardening attitudes, election results, and new political movements.

The real danger is that the approach of people like yourself (to immediately jump to the accusations of racism, xenophobia or <insert Americanised term here>) is that some of these movements ARE actually dangerous and extreme and could lead to far bigger problems in the near future.

Most people place a value on national identity and belonging to a country of shared culture and history. In all the many posts and threads I've read on this subject here, I've yet to see ANYONE say "bloody foreigners. They should all be sent home. Ireland for the Irish!" (with whatever colourful phrases you might like to add to that).
Now maybe I've missed a few posts like that (I don't have time to read every one), but what I see is people asking how immigration benefits us, how do we avoid the problems seen elsewhere in Europe and the UK, how do we make sure that we're not inviting potentially dangerous individuals into our communities, how do we deal with the chancers and wasters (we have enough of our own), and how do we manage migration in a sustainable manner and give the newcomers opportunity to integrate and the locals time to adapt as well.

Now if you and others here consider those questions to be racist then I can't help you, but those discussions are happening with or without you or the even the likes of Leo and Coveney, and people want their questions heard and reasonable answers given. If not, I expect it'll be reflected in the ballot box before long as some of the incidents we've already seen in Ireland become more frequent.

This isn't scaremongering.. It's what's happening all over Europe. The only way to address it is through debate and open discussion.. Not something that can happen while dismissive labelling (and it comes from both "sides") is going on.

Again you are trying to put the responsability on non-racists for the beliefs of racists. This is the post you are defending in case you forgot.

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

Odhinn

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

Yep, that's racist allright.

Billy Mays

Imagine reading that post and thinking "no, I don't see anything there that implies the poster doesn't like foreigners".

Sonics2k

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah if you need the "win" that badly then go for it :rolleyes:

I think trends outside this forum and indeed country through show that an increasing number of people are being tired of being talked down to and insulted on topics like this by people like yourself, and this is being reflected in hardening attitudes, election results, and new political movements.

The real danger is that the approach of people like yourself (to immediately jump to the accusations of racism, xenophobia or <insert Americanised term here>) is that some of these movements ARE actually dangerous and extreme and could lead to far bigger problems in the near future.

Most people place a value on national identity and belonging to a country of shared culture and history. In all the many posts and threads I've read on this subject here, I've yet to see ANYONE say "bloody foreigners. They should all be sent home. Ireland for the Irish!" (with whatever colourful phrases you might like to add to that).
Now maybe I've missed a few posts like that (I don't have time to read every one), but what I see is people asking how immigration benefits us, how do we avoid the problems seen elsewhere in Europe and the UK, how do we make sure that we're not inviting potentially dangerous individuals into our communities, how do we deal with the chancers and wasters (we have enough of our own), and how do we manage migration in a sustainable manner and give the newcomers opportunity to integrate and the locals time to adapt as well.

Now if you and others here consider those questions to be racist then I can't help you, but those discussions are happening with or without you or the even the likes of Leo and Coveney, and people want their questions heard and reasonable answers given. If not, I expect it'll be reflected in the ballot box before long as some of the incidents we've already seen in Ireland become more frequent.

This isn't scaremongering.. It's what's happening all over Europe. The only way to address it is through debate and open discussion.. Not something that can happen while dismissive labelling (and it comes from both "sides") is going on.

I don't know why you're getting so defensive about this. That persons post was just racist. There's no American politics or white guilt at play here.

Dude literally says he won't get in a cab with a non-national because they're a not white/Irish.

tretorn

I dunno.

I think if the poor girl who had takentoo much to drink had been picked up by an irish taxi driver he would have made sure she got home safely.

She was picked up by a person from an Asian background and raped orally and vaginally for over two hours. If you take a taxi at night time in Dublin now youa re getting into a car with someone who may not have been vetted correctly, all the foreigners look the same so a picture stuck on the dashboard isnt much use to you, it could be anyone with any sort of dubious background.

You need to look after your own personal safety because with the numbers coming in and from countries where records dont exist vetting is impossible.

I will make up my own mind and strongly advise people to make sure to get the last bus or Luas home, better to be safe than sorry.

I dont care if that makes me a racist, most of the non nationals here are racist too, they prefer to stick to their own communities and are only here because Ireland provides a better lifestyle than the countries they have left.

Captain Obvious

tretorn wrote: »

I dunno.

I think if the poor girl who had takentoo much to drink had been picked up by an irish taxi driver he would have made sure she got home safely.

She was picked up by a person from an Asian background and raped orally and vaginally for over two hours. If you take a taxi at night time in Dublin now youa re getting into a car with someone who may not have been vetted correctly, all the foreigners look the same so a picture stuck on the dashboard isnt much use to you, it could be anyone with any sort of dubious background.

You need to look after your own personal safety because with the numbers coming in and from countries where records dont exist vetting is impossible.

I will make up my own mind and strongly advise people to make sure to get the last bus or Luas home, better to be safe than sorry.

I dont care if that makes me a racist, most of the non nationals here are racist too, they prefer to stick to their own communities and are only here because Ireland provides a better lifestyle than the countries they have left.

Are you of the belief no white Irish taxi driver has ever taken advantage of a passenger?

Edit: Also, are you of the opinion that no woman has been attacked after getting a luas or bus home?

tretorn

No, of course there are bad apples in every profession but most Irish men manage to live alongside their fellow human beings without expecting some of them to dress head to toe in uncomfortable clothing so they wont draw male attention.

Irish men for the most part are respectful of women and they know rape is a serious crime that will have consequences.

Many of these non nationals are coming from countries where if you are raped its your own fault and women wont even report it, rapists will then commit this crime repeatedly and will never get caught. You have people coming to this country having been brought up to think anyone not covered up is worthless and she is available for whatever use men want to put her to.

As I said be careful around strangers whose culture and way of life is alien to you and definitely dont get into a locked moving vehicle with them.

I see there was another stabbing by someone shouting Allah in Manchester, the UK has become a very unpleasant place to live.

trellheim

the bang of racism and whataboutery of this thread

batgoat

tretorn wrote: »

No, of course there are bad apples in every profession but most Irish men manage to live alongside their fellow human beings without expecting some of them to dress head to toe in uncomfortable clothing so they wont draw male attention.

Irish men for the most part are respectful of women and they know rape is a serious crime that will have consequences.

Many of these non nationals are coming from countries where if you are raped its your own fault and women wont even report it, rapists will then commit this crime repeatedly and will never get caught. You have people coming to this country having been brought up to think anyone not covered up is worthless and she is available for whatever use men want to put her to.

As I said be careful around strangers whose culture and way of life is alien to you and definitely dont get into a locked moving vehicle with them.

I see there was another stabbing by someone shouting Allah in Manchester, the UK has become a very unpleasant place to live.

Eh, we have plenty of Irish people who say it's a woman's own fault that she was raped. We have plenty of Irish people on this forum who are happy to make plenty of judgements of rape victims. Look at George Hook, attacked more than one rape victim for which he's applauded by plenty for being a non pc voice.

You're intent on portraying non white people as barbarians while white Irish men are saints for the most part apparently.