Yulewolf – A Werewolf Christmas Carol FEEDBACK THREAD

Baggly

Feedback to go here.

• Please keep all feedback constructive.
• Please be considerate of the mods time in putting the game together and running it.
• Please also be aware it’s been a very long week for everyone involved, so we are all a little tired so let’s be a little extra sensitive that players or mods have expended huge energy for the game this week (also its Christmas now the game is over, so let’s all go into this feedback thread with good spirits!)
• The game is over so let’s all leave any fights or disagreements from within the game just there; within the game. I didn’t see anything in the game that was excessive or intentionally bad, so there is no issues on my side of things. Lets all give each other a big Christmassy hug.
• Kudos and thank you's can go here, should you wish to give them!

Some discussion points the mods want to bring to people’s attention.

1. This wasn’t a randomised game. We did a player draft where mods picked the roles for whichever player they wanted according to draft rules we established (see below)
2. We flagged the game wasn’t vanilla before we began. I don’t think we realised the game was going to be as complicated as it turned out, however.
3. Flavour be flavour. I don’t know if I would use this again. Some of the flavour was important, some was not. I don’t know you can declare flavour important one way or the other. I probably won’t do that again.
4. Hidden info / reveals / updating OP. This was planned by as a key component of the game. I get its not everyone’s cup of tea. I’ve enjoyed its role within this game. That’s not to say I’d do it every game!

Player list / Role List
Good:
sKeith - Gertrude (Dickens Priest Good)
Barney - Gabriel (Fred Seer Good)
Mick - Ewan (Tiny Tim Vig Good)
beakerjoe - Angus (Belle Tied to Scrooge, otherwise a NRV Good)
Ectoplasm - Wendy (NRV NA Good)
Fixxxer - Vernon (NRV NA Good)
Tritium - Conor (Santa Picks who gets the ghost gifts Good)
Quickbeam - Henry (NRV NA Good)
Deconduo - Katie (NRV NA Good)
Necro - Brendan (Bob Cratchit Interrogator / Lover Good)
Sully - Clodagh (Martha Cratchit Lover Good)
Kitten K - Oisin (Xmas Present Convertable to wolf, village get additional peek if this happens, wolves gain priest Good/Wolf)
Molly - Isla (Xmas Future Convertable to wolf, village gets gun & 3 bullets, wolves get gun and bullet Good/Wolf)
Grumpylumpy - Barbara (NRV NA Good)
Kolido - Steve (NRV NA Good - Apprentice Priest)
Drumpot - Holly (NRV NA Good)
Duffman13 - Fiona (Fezziwig Activated if all sks die Good/SK)
Strawberry Milkshake - Riona (NRV NA Good)

Evils:
Uriel. - Mary (Marley Power Blocker Wolf)
Lord TSC - Derry (Scrooge Convertable Alpha Wolf)
Rikand - Phil (Xmas Past Convertable to wolf, village gets app priest, wolves gain seer Good/Wolf)

Ficheall - Desmond (Old Joe SK Sk)
Bounty Hunter - Nigel (Undertaker App SK & Priest Sk)



Draft Rules & Results

•Mods can choose 1 player from the player list for a role, based on the below picking schedule.
Once a player has been picked, that is their role (with 1 exception for the second last rule, below)
•Mod order below picked at random.
•Role order picked at random.
•Mods allowed 1 swap each at end of draft (swap 1 player from the role they have to another role, putting the displaced player into the role just vacated – sorry Ecto but we thought it was the best call).
•Draft to take place here on COP, no editing posts!

Lough picks Ghost of Xmas present - Kitten K
Mrs F picks 1st SK (Old Joe) - Ficheal
Mrs F picks 2nd wolf (Marley) - Uriel
Pter picks Bob (Interrogator / Lover) - Necro
Lough picks Fezziwig - Duffman
Pter picks Priest (Dickens) -sKeith
Pter picks Ghost of Xmas Past - Rikand
Lough picks 1st wolf (Scrooge) - Lord TSC
Pter picks Belle - Beakerjoe
Mrs F picks Ghost of Xmas yet to be – Ectoplasm (Molly was subbed into this role as we were worried about inactivity and a sub later being dropped into a NRV role and then immediately made a priest, having not followed the game).
Mrs F picks Fred (seer) - Barney
Lough picks Tiny Tim (Vig) - MicksJaguar
Mrs F picks Martha (Lover) - Sullivlo
Loughc picks Undertaker (SK priest) - BH

Late addition: Pter picks Santa – Tritium
Role swap: Mollyb60 was swapped into Ghost of Xmas yet to be, and Ecto was given Mollyb60’s NRV role

Remaining players are NRVs

deconduo

Quick thoughts, might have more later:

Good:
The roles were great.
I like the slow reveal throughout the game (was the order fixed from the start?)
Well run and organised
Overall good balance
My first anon game, was interesting.

Bad:
I hate any mind control or post manipulation mechanics
I dislike the speed fire last day. Could easily have a situation where one of the players is unavailable for a couple of hours which loses them the game

sKeith

statistics sheet updated, something up with the colours though

Baggly

Reveal schedule:

Role Reveals in OP
Mon Marley
Tiny Tim

Tue Ghost of Xmas Past
Fred
Santa

WedsGhost of Xmas Present
Belle
Martha

Thur Ghost of Xmas Future
Sk Priest
Bob

Fri Dickens
Fezziwig
App priest

Kolido

Too many priests...otherwise, brilliant game.

Ectoplasm

Ah thanks Mrs F. Might have be been fun to be a wolf but I totally get the swap, it was a good call.

Great game overall. I'm not a fan of unreliable peeks in general but I did like the fact that the SKs had a fighting chance in this game. Maybe too many priests alright. Loved the Santa role

beakerjoe

Quite Iconic that Nigel was beakering the role held by beaker.

So who shot Holly.

Or how did the whole conversion, powers wolf thingy stuff work

Baggly

Holly breached her gag order and was shot by the wolves for it.

Baggly

Ghosts were converted to evil spirits as per flavour one day at a time.

Fezziwig would have become sk when Ficheall died.

Drumpot

I was loving the game until I crossed the line with the spell. It ruined it for me because I really wasn’t trying to be cheeky but when Pter told me I had crossed the line I didn’t want to play on TBH. Not because there is anything wrong with rules, the decision to effectively mod kill me or anybody else, it’s a me thing. I don’t like playing anything where there is any question of my intentions or if it even might look like I’ve had an unfair advantage. Even in 5 aside if I am not sure if it’s a corner against me I leave it to the opposition. There is no satisfaction in winning by bending rules.

The problem with the spell thing was that the only rule was that you could not say you were forced to post that you had to post the note or talk about it. It left way too many avenues I could see where technically I wasn’t breakig the rules but it could be interpreted as cheating. I genuinely didn’t know where the line was on this.

I checked plenty of things with Pter and was surprised at some of the things I could do. Even posting straight after the note or. Making as much about Riona and leaving all the clues about what happened to her was fair game (I was PMing Pter to check in game).

I’m not sure what tipped the balance (and have no problem with the punishment at all) but it’s hard to know where to draw the line with that power.

Baggly

I'll write up a response to that when I have some time later this weekend drummer, if that's ok with you.

Necro

Pter wrote: »

Some discussion points the mods want to bring to people’s attention.

1. This wasn’t a randomised game. We did a player draft where mods picked the roles for whichever player they wanted according to draft rules we established (see below)
2. We flagged the game wasn’t vanilla before we began. I don’t think we realised the game was going to be as complicated as it turned out, however.
3. Flavour be flavour. I don’t know if I would use this again. Some of the flavour was important, some was not. I don’t know you can declare flavour important one way or the other. I probably won’t do that again.
4. Hidden info / reveals / updating OP. This was planned by as a key component of the game. I get its not everyone’s cup of tea. I’ve enjoyed its role within this game. That’s not to say I’d do it every game!

On 1 - I appreciate the idea, it's a nice change. That being said I'm not certain it doesn't leave mods open to accusations of player bias or from a player claiming they weren't selected as they aren't part of the in crowd. Randing is a big part of the game, I think it slightly removes the 'anyone can be anything' element from the game. But it was certainly worth a trial.

2 - Never an issue for me in complex VS vanilla, I'll play regardless. On that though, if there is a questions thread prior to the game - it's better to be able to give answers. A mystery OP should really have no questions thread - because as we saw, people asked lots of questions and were left wondering what the point of asking them was.

3. Flavour - I'm coming around to the idea that the less flavour, the better. It can give players an idea one way or another. In fact some flavour has been responsible for game wins/losses before (I'm thinking the Simpsons and the mention of Grandpa's powers after he died). By all means, have flavour - but don't link it to the game/kills etc.

4. Yeah, definitely not my cup of tea sadly. I totally appreciate the effort put into this game by all mods, and it's clear there was some amount of planning. Game went off well, and my kudos to all three of you for that.

However: A constantly changing gamestate is difficult for a village to function in correctly. Having a rolling OP with reveals and conversions up till Thursday means that it's difficult to get a grip on the game. Wolves have much more information than the village, and too many hidden roles and powers on both sides means it's an incredible uphill battle from the beginning.
I know the tendency here is to include as much as possible to allow the possibility for all sorts of role claims, but it's better imo to give an indication of what the powers given to the roled villagers do in the OP. Particularly if they have been altered in some way.


All that being said, thanks for the game mods. I did enjoy it - was a tonne of fun!!

MrsFlushdraw

Just a question on flavour. What do people mean by flavour?

grumpylumpy

I don't like the idea that the mods chose the roles for the group. Fair enough to trial something new but it takes an element of fun and fairness out of the game, and as necro mentioned, could lead to the feeling of not being in the in crowd. I for one don't mind whatever role is chosen for me, but I'd definitely prefer the more fair aspect of having it randomised.

grumpylumpy

Other than that, brilliant game mods, cheer for that

grumpylumpy

What was the reasoning behind mods selecting the roles?

MrsFlushdraw

grumpylumpy wrote: »

I don't like the idea that the mods chose the roles for the group. Fair enough to trial something new but it takes an element of fun and fairness out of the game, and as necro mentioned, could lead to the feeling of not being in the in crowd. I for one don't mind whatever role is chosen for me, but I'd definitely prefer the more fair aspect of having it randomised.

I think that was the whole thing in our minds when choosing. I didn't want to pick people and have others think I was showing favouritism. But I think we did balance it out well so that it was very varied in the pick.

Drumpot

Pter wrote: »

I'll write up a response to that when I have some time later this weekend drummer, if that's ok with you.

Thanks Pter, it’s more intended to be constructive feedback then anything.

I have no complaints at all about my punishment (I actually didn’t see how I could continue on and was more worried you would convert me!) and hope this doesn’t come across as negative criticism of you , the rules or any other mods. You know I was Pm ing you and saying I’m ok with any penalty and I meant it. Riona got through ok so it’s not that that it’s all bad and clear that I could of gotten to 4 without breaking the rule (that’s why I got so annoyed with myself).

fixXxer

MrsFlushdraw wrote: »

I think that was the whole thing in our minds when choosing. I didn't want to pick people and have others think I was showing favouritism. But I think we did balance it out well so that it was very varied in the pick.

I don't know why you'd give yourself the added stress! I know I wouldn't get looked at for any roles as I don't play well enough but at least with Random picks I've had the chance now a few times to play different roles. Otherwise I liked how it was laid out. Wolves and SK always feel at a disadvantage to me with limited options. It was good to see a game where it felt like a more even playing field.

grumpylumpy

MrsFlushdraw wrote: »

I think that was the whole thing in our minds when choosing. I didn't want to pick people and have others think I was showing favouritism. But I think we did balance it out well so that it was very varied in the pick.

Yeah I just don't like the idea that the mods were forced to play favourites/intentionally not to prove a point.

Just think randomisation is more fair.

sKeith

Constructive feedback, Don't rand or whatever you did, before questions thread.

I knew before the game even started that I was playing for the good side. Like 100%. What is called 'Mod spewed'.

For those that want to learn, go look at questions thread, and figure out how I knew i was playing for the side of good, before the game started. Good luck, its in there.

Necro

MrsFlushdraw wrote: »

I think that was the whole thing in our minds when choosing. I didn't want to pick people and have others think I was showing favouritism. But I think we did balance it out well so that it was very varied in the pick.

Ah of course, I wasn't making any accusations on you guys at all, just how it might seem to some people who didn't get picked for a role etc.

I was drafted first round so no complaints here :pac:

Baggly

fixxxer wrote:

I don't know why you'd give yourself the added stress! I know I wouldn't get looked at for any roles as I don't play well enough but at least with Random picks I've had the chance now a few times to play different roles. Otherwise I liked how it was laid out. Wolves and SK always feel at a disadvantage to me with limited options. It was good to see a game where it felt like a more even playing field.

I almost picked you for bob tbh.

grumpylumpy wrote:

Yeah I just don't like the idea that the mods were forced to play favourites/intentionally not to prove a point.

That's fair enough. I think being transparent after the game resolves that but I understand all the same. Tbh the rules outlined took away some of the mod control. So for example if flushy saw me picking my mates she could sub them out.

Intention behind doing it for me was to try make sure we had active players in the more demanding roles.

Rand may be more impartial (or at least appear thus) but if it puts someone just logging a vote each night but not using their role, that's not actually fair to other players who might put in more effort.

Now thankfully our full roster were all gooduns but I'm happy the draft was impartial and balanced.

tritium

I dunno I go away for an (enforced) few hours and come back to find the village has won

Well done you guys, hell of a job

Well done to wolves and SK teams too, genuinely fantastic performances. That was nail biting, and could have gone any way


Mods, brilliant job on the game, that had more twists and turns than an alley on Dickensian London


Feedback: I loved the game, it was exhausting. So many things to try to figure out. I’ve mixed feelings on the bad teams having their own full priest or seers, I always think it’s a massive boon to the baddies but that just personal perception.. my god you guys must need a long sleep after that.

And ho ho ho merry Christmas, thank you for randi g me as the greatest Christmas character of all

Lord TSC

No joke, I was losing sleep the last two nights from this game. Really enjoyed it. Felt there was highs and lows; felt at one stage the wolves were doing well, but once the role reveals started....that's something I suck at. Was a mad scramble then, especially when the village took Mary and Phil so close together.

Had brilliant fun though. Couldn't believe how well the first message worked.

Not a massive amount of feedback but wanted to say thanks to the mods cause I had a blast

I was the same the last 2 nights by head was ****ing buzzing, so much bits of information running around my head when trying to sleep.

Shout out to Santa for talking me onto the low posters, Katie and Henry for finally convincing me they were villagers on a read back last night and Wendy.

Again great game mods but my brain my poor brain

Also

Kolido

Not feedback but just wondering what the NA after nrv in the player list means?

Sorry if its a silly question, been a long week!

Necro

I think the effort put in by some of the players in this game deserves mentioning too.

Mick, his backroom was full of investigative stuff, still reading it.

Ficheall and Bounty's play was excellent. How Dessie pulled it out of the fire to get the village priest lynched was classic.

Henry's notes, and final vote to swing the game.

Santa's excellent present giving.

Sully/Clodagh's powerful play on day 3 to avenge my death. Also thanks sully, loved playing alongside you wifey/daughter...

So many others - Deco/Katie on point most of the game as well.

Top class everyone!

Necro

Oh and of course the clever use of the notes by the wolves, sewing all sorts of madness into the village!! Can't forget that!

sKeith

Kolido wrote: »

Not feedback but just wondering what the NA after nrv in the player list means?

Sorry if its a silly question, been a long week!

not applicable

Ectoplasm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was the same the last 2 nights by head was ****ing buzzing, so much bits of information running around my head when trying to sleep.

Shout out to Santa for talking me onto the low posters, Katie and Henry for finally convincing me they were villagers on a read back last night and Wendy.

Again great game mods but my brain my poor brain

Also

I'm just so grateful you believed me enough to make it a draw in that last lynch and then you and QB/Henry bringing it home was a joy to watch. You were an awesome vig.

Ectoplasm

That sounded a bit gloaty, didn't mean to. Wolves played really well with the notes and SKs were really excellent. As painful as it is to be in, I like the close games the best.

Bit of feedback...if a speed day is anticipated, it would be great to have the timings known ahead of time. I was out and about this morning and although I knew speed day was coming I didn't expect it to be quite so speedy. It was a bit of luck that I was able to spend so much time on thread in the run up to the finale (and looked a total weirdo sitting in my car shouting at my phone but that's not on the Mods )

Bounty Hunter

thank you LoughC

Loughc picks Undertaker (SK priest) - BH

didn't even notice - This equals my 19,000 post! knew it would happen in WW though

Baggly

Kolido the headings the role list are taken from have columns for character, role and alignment.

We put in nrvs for character and as such no role, so NA in that column

Also I suggest renaming all the anon accounts 1,2,3 etc

And I reckon henry/nigel would agree with me

Also cheers for the pick Lough c and happy belated birthday

Necro

Deleted User wrote: »

Also I suggest renaming all the anon accounts 1,2,3 etc

And I reckon henry/nigel would agree with me

Oh I think sully mentioned the Riona/Fiona account thing in the backroom. I'd agree they are a bit too similar. Best to rename or retire one imo.

Necro

Necro wrote: »

Oh I think sully mentioned the Riona/Fiona account thing in the backroom. I'd agree they are a bit too similar. Best to rename or retire one imo.

OK I actually have no problem with them just the ones that look nothing like each other think my brain is broken

Kolido

I reckon we should rename all of them after all of us, really mess with your head!

beakerjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

OK I actually have no problem with them just the ones that look nothing like each other think my brain is broken

I wouldn't retire them, Im happy with Riona and Fiona

sKeith

In smaller games, don't use one or the other. Riona has been used for 13 games and Fiona for 11 games.

Make sure winifred 4 and oisin 5 gets more games, and vernon 8 and wendy 8 too.

You only need Fiona and riona both playing when you have a 32 player game.

For ref, the anons not used in yulewolf were:
Orla WW Eva WW Frank WW Jake WW Abigail WW Doris WW Winifred WW Liam WW Tegan WW

quickbeam

Well done Mick and Ecto. A fantastic finish. Hard luck BH. Why didn’t you say Henry was Scrooge as a matter of interest?

Hey Trit. Ho ho ho! You got anything to say to me?

quickbeam

Really can’t believe I survived until the end.

Necro

quickbeam wrote: »

Really can’t believe I survived until the end.

The power of Brendan got you through

quickbeam

And thanks mods. Other than Thursday I really enjoyed it.

quickbeam

Necro wrote: »

The power of Brendan got you through

I was too busy patting myself on the back for figuring that the ‘both die’ rule was bs that I missed the even more obvious bit.

I can’t believe you told Sully I was bad though.

Ectoplasm

quickbeam wrote: »

Well done Mick and Ecto. A fantastic finish. Hard luck BH. Why didn’t you say Henry was Scrooge as a matter of interest?

Hey Trit. Ho ho ho! You got anything to say to me?

Well done you! It was your vote that swung it in the end. I reckon if he'd said you were Scrooge you'd have known and we might all have copped on that he shouldn't have actually had a check. You did amazingly well under pressure.

quickbeam

Ectoplasm wrote: »

Well done you! It was your vote that swung it in the end. I reckon if he'd said you were Scrooge you'd have known and we might all have copped on that he shouldn't have actually had a check. You did amazingly well under pressure.

Thanks. Having people sus of me is probably what actually saved me as it got me peeked to (almost) clear.

quickbeam

Ectoplasm wrote: »

Well done you! It was your vote that swung it in the end. I reckon if he'd said you were Scrooge you'd have known and we might all have copped on that he shouldn't have actually had a check. You did amazingly well under pressure.

You did defend yourself really well. And Nigel getting defensive when I brought up Mary’s FFA sort of swung it for me.

deconduo

quickbeam wrote: »

You did defend yourself really well. And Nigel getting defensive when I brought up Mary’s FFA sort of swung it for me.

Yup, well played

Bounty Hunter

quickbeam wrote: »

You did defend yourself really well. And Nigel getting defensive when I brought up Mary’s FFA sort of swung it for me.

damned if you do damned if you don't. At the same time I was being told I was too lax and not fighting enough compared to Wendy and you had mentioned this a few times in a row so I felt I had to fight it.

Hard luck BH. Why didn’t you say Henry was Scrooge as a matter of interest?

Think it was a combo of lack of time (The last 10m was the only time I was at a computer since I voted around 7pm the night before and not teaching / dealing with the wife) and the fact that people like Wendy had been been quiet so getting Henry on my side seemed like more of a positive than creating an adversary who would probably have more time than me to argue.