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Gatwick closed (mod note post 1)

  • 19-12-2018 11:58pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 911 ✭✭✭


    LGW has been closed for some time. Diversions in progress.


    Mod Note added 23/12/2018:

    This is not the Conspiracy Theories forum, nor is it After Hours. Posters who do not come here often are asked to read the charter. Conspiracy theory posts are not acceptable here.


«13456713

Comments

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Sky News just reporting that it's due to the presence of 2 drones over the airport. Hope they manage to catch whoever is responsible.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,758 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    BBC reporting its due to a drone being sighted near the field


  • Registered Users Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Mebuntu


    Looks like 4 x easyJet gone to Cardiff, 1 to CDG, 1 heading North over Milton Keynes and another to STN.

    EDIT: Another 2 gone to CDG. The one heading North is gone to MAN.

    EDIT: FR119 and EI249 LGW-DUB still on the ground. I wonder if the crew will be out of hours?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,367 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Sky News just reporting that it's due to the presence of 2 drones over the airport. Hope they manage to catch whoever is responsible.
    Bloody things should be licensed. Anybody who doesn't want to act the prat with them shouldn't have an issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    LGW Still closed , not expected to reopen the runway before 0800 . Massive disruption.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    A4096/18 NOTAMR A4095/18
    Q) EGTT/QAZXX/IV/NBO/AE/000/023/5109N00011W003
    A) EGKK B) 1812200619 C) 1812200900
    E) AIRPORT UNAVALABLE DUE TO DRONE ACTIVITY WITHIN GATWICK ATZ
    CREATED: 20 Dec 2018 06:19:00
    SOURCE: EUECYIYN


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭sparrowcar


    Authorities believe it's a coordinated attack by persons with resources.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,039 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    Why can't they take these drones out of the sky. Apparently still flying? Eagles/ hawks or even the army/ RAF?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,546 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    GBX wrote: »
    Why can't they take these drones out of the sky. Apparently still flying? Eagles/ hawks or even the army/ RAF?

    On BBC Radio 4 they said there was concern about stray bullets.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,224 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    GBX wrote: »
    Why can't they take these drones out of the sky. Apparently still flying? Eagles/ hawks or even the army/ RAF?

    Or even a drone catcher! https://dronecatcher.nl/#specs


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  • Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭TheBigEvil


    Just fire off an EMP. Job done :D:D:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    sparrowcar wrote: »
    Authorities believe it's a coordinated attack by persons with resources.

    это не правда!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    fricatus wrote: »
    это не правда!!!

    Just doing some sight-seeing of the very historic Gatwick area


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    GBX wrote: »
    Why can't they take these drones out of the sky. Apparently still flying? Eagles/ hawks or even the army/ RAF?

    On BBC Radio 4 they said there was concern about stray bullets.
    Not like there are many people hanging around the runway area likely to be hit. Not sure what the problem is, other than them finding a bullet on the runway in a few years time and having forgotten that they fired it so there being a security alert due to that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    robinph wrote: »
    Not like there are many people hanging around the runway area likely to be hit. Not sure what the problem is, other than them finding a bullet on the runway in a few years time and having forgotten that they fired it so there being a security alert due to that.

    I don't think you appreciate how far a bullet shot into the air can travel and the speed and unpredictability at which it returns to earth when shot upwards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    It's certainly not a one shot one kill situation

    https://youtu.be/wmTKktd9xCc


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    robinph wrote: »
    Not like there are many people hanging around the runway area likely to be hit. Not sure what the problem is, other than them finding a bullet on the runway in a few years time and having forgotten that they fired it so there being a security alert due to that.

    I don't think you appreciate how far a bullet shot into the air can travel and the speed and unpredictability at which it returns to earth when shot upwards.
    Admittedly firing a load of bullets at it would be fairly futile anyway. A souped up tennis ball launcher would be a better way to down the drone, just need to be close enough.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,482 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Crash another drone into it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    I wonder if they're trying to triangulate any command signals to it, and that's the delay about intervening...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,482 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    kinda concerning... what's to stop a worldwide concerted effort to shut airports down?

    if all it takes is one man and his drone...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭sparrowcar


    fricatus wrote: »
    это не правда!!!

    I heard it on a conference call this morning..


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    lawred2 wrote: »
    kinda concerning... what's to stop a worldwide concerted effort to shut airports down?

    if all it takes is one man and his drone...

    I heard them saying there were two of them, presumably taking it in turns to fly and recharge their batteries.

    It's unusual (but good) that there doesn't seem to be any TV cameras out and about around the perimeter or showing footage of the drones. Normally an incident going on this long right next to London and there would be 360 coverage from TV cameras setup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Dardania wrote: »
    I wonder if they're trying to triangulate any command signals to it, and that's the delay about intervening...

    If someone was thinking this through perhaps they'd have the drones programmed to run themselves within the set area of the airfield. Whomever is at it, it's a helluva demonstration of the ease with which bad actors can cause a lot of economic damage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭AGC


    Extended now until midday


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,758 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    All that technology and not a spear in sight...

    giphy.gif


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,482 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    lol


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,589 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    sparrowcar wrote: »
    Authorities believe it's a coordinated attack by persons with resources.

    Any chance it's some of the locals who are trying to stop the second runway?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭sparrowcar


    Any chance it's some of the locals who are trying to stop the second runway?

    Possibly.
    Could also be kids high on energy drinks.
    Any Anti government group
    Any terror group
    A drunk wedding photographer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Mebuntu


    Aer Lingus cancelled their early flight from DUB to Gatwick but Ryanair flew theirs to Stansted instead. Good solution.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭glenfieldman


    sparrowcar wrote: »
    Possibly.
    Could also be kids high on energy drinks.
    Any Anti government group
    Any terror group
    A drunk wedding photographer.

    LOL


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I just sat through an interview with a UK Minister on Sky News, and the level of ignorance about the capability of a modern drone, and how to deal with it, was mind numbing.

    You can have all the legislation you like, and work with drone manufacturers to put in systems to prevent them flying in restricted areas, and it will do NOTHING to resolve the real issue, which is that it is technically totally feasible to launch a drone from a remote location, which will then fly under programme control to a pre programmed flight plan, and the only thing that limits how long that flight lasts is the capacity of the on board batteries. There is no requirement for a ground to air radio link to control it, so there is no easy way to triangulate where the operator is, there is no uplink active.

    The electronics to enable this sort of autonomous operation are freely available from multiple suppliers, and so it the software, and it is incredibly cheap to get, and the accuracy that can be achieved with the right equipment is the accuracy of the GPS signals that are used to provide the guidance.

    The only thing capable of taking out such a drone will be a very directed Laser style device that will either overload the internal electronics, or cause significant damage to the mechanical parts of the device and render it incapable of continuing to fly, but if such devices are available, they are not being widely talked about, and are certainly not being deployed to the airport operators. Another possible option is to have a directional radio beam that will block GPS signals, but that will only disrupt the navigation of the device, not prevent it from continuing to fly. The problem with disrupting the GPS system to take out a drone is that there are then major problems for aircraft in the area, as they are very likely to also be relying on GPS signals for their navigational accuracy, so for obvious safety reasons, the airspace has to be cleared before a take down system can be used.

    Shooting down using traditional weapons is not an option, the potential for injury or worse to third parties at a considerable distance from the airport makes any sort of projectile weapon an impossible solution, and depending on the size of the drone, even aiming such a device would be incredibly difficult to do.

    And to make it clear, the potential for damage to an aircraft from a drone is much higher than from a bird, and we've seen on a regular basis the sort of damage that a bird causes.

    The mass of the drone is higher, and the density of some of the parts means that they have the potential to inflict much more damage to critical components such as the engines. Fortunately, even with all the technology available, it is still incredibly difficult to put a drone into exactly the right position to impact an airframe in the right place to do damage, because of the closing speeds of the aircraft with the device.

    I'm under no illusions, for a person with the motivation, it is incredibly easy to get access to the devices and the technology to cause a huge amount of disruption, and the regulators have been very slow to develop appropriate counter measures that can mitigate the problem. Having said that, the final approach to landing is a problem area, because the way that the aircraft is flown means that it is operating within a very small airspace window, so it is much easier to get the drone into a location where it has the potential to do damage.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Gatwick's chief has said one of the drones is a heavy industrial drone.

    Drones normally only have 30 minutes of battery power.
    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 mikegermany


    A bigger concern around airports is surface-to-air missiles

    Hasn't happened thankfully


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    A bigger concern around airports is surface-to-air missiles

    Hasn't happened thankfully

    Not really. You can't pick them up so easily via Amazon with next day delivery.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,039 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    Been said now that at least one of the drone is a commercial one. Acquired outside of normal channels? Disgruntled operator?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,482 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    GBX wrote: »
    Been said now that at least one of the drone is a commercial one. Acquired outside of normal channels? Disgruntled operator?

    well if you're determined to actually go about doing such a thing - then using commercial channels (i.e. not AMZ) is hardly going to be much of a deterrent..

    using commercial channels is hardly akin to buying old Russian arms in the Ukraine


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    You just need an angry farmer with a shotgun on standby for this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Lustrum


    Mebuntu wrote: »
    Aer Lingus cancelled their early flight from DUB to Gatwick but Ryanair flew theirs to Stansted instead. Good solution.

    Ryanair have a huge base there, Aer Lingus don't. Stansted is also NOTAMed to say they'll only accept emergency diversions as they're at capacity, and also that stobart ground handling have no staff so any aircraft expecting to get handled by them won't be!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 mikegermany


    robinph wrote: »
    Not really. You can't pick them up so easily via Amazon with next day delivery.

    It's debatable

    Drones make headlines and cause disruption but are a visible hazard


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    It's debatable

    Drones make headlines and cause disruption but are a visible hazard

    Whilst a surface to air missile launcher gives you a good chance of killing a lot of people if you get lucky, it's also more difficult to obtain, more difficult to transport, limited number of attempts before you're out of ammo...and more importantly probably for whoever is doing the current drone messing about, if you are carrying a missile launcher then your chances of getting shot increase significantly.

    The guy with the drone at worst is probably going to get jumped on by a dog and or tasered.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    It’s very strange that with the signal can’t be tracked. I think there’s more to this story.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 mikegermany


    robinph wrote: »
    Whilst a surface to air missile launcher gives you a good chance of killing a lot of people if you get lucky, it's also more difficult to obtain, more difficult to transport, limited number of attempts before you're out of ammo...and more importantly probably for whoever is doing the current drone messing about, if you are carrying a missile launcher then your chances of getting shot increase significantly.

    The guy with the drone at worst is probably going to get jumped on by a dog and or tasered.

    Disagree with most of your points re: transport etc.

    Missiles are not like bullets either

    I'll leave it at that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,482 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Disagree with most of your points re: transport etc.

    Missiles are not like bullets either

    I'll leave it at that

    ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭nim1bdeh38l2cw


    It’s very strange that with the signal can’t be tracked. I think there’s more to this story.

    What signal? A lot of the drones out there use 802.11, 99.999% of houses have multiple 802.11 transmitters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,444 ✭✭✭plodder


    gctest50 wrote: »
    You just need an angry farmer with a shotgun on standby for this
    A shotgun would do the job, but the range is very limited and any drone would just need to stay more than 50m above ground to avoid being hit.

    Lasers are probably the answer long term, but the technology has only been used in highly costly, experimental military applications up to now. Once the bean counters work out the cost of today's mess, that might change. Could be years before a practical solution is available though.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Disagree with most of your points re: transport etc.

    Missiles are not like bullets either

    I'll leave it at that

    Yeah, missiles are bigger, heavier to carry around, in less easy supply and once you've fired one off then people have a pretty damn good idea as to where you are.

    The drone flying about and you could be anywhere nearby, or nowhere nearby at all and just set it off on autopilot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    What signal? A lot of the drones out there use 802.11, 99.999% of houses have multiple 802.11 transmitters.

    I’m sure that the signal can easily be picked out of the mess especially outside around an airport. Strength of signal etc. I can do similar at home with commview and a laptop.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,482 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    What signal? A lot of the drones out there use 802.11, 99.999% of houses have multiple 802.11 transmitters.

    surely a drone being actively controlled roaming around a airport would need a communication system with a slightly better range than wifi?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 mikegermany


    robinph wrote: »
    Yeah, missiles are bigger, heavier to carry around, in less easy supply and once you've fired one off then people have a pretty damn good idea as to where you are.

    The drone flying about and you could be anywhere nearby, or nowhere nearby at all and just set it off on autopilot.

    They're not big and heavy to transport

    They lock onto the target ,you don't fire off multiple missiles

    Can we at least stick with facts if you're arguing the point


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    They're not big and heavy to transport

    They lock onto the target ,you don't fire off multiple missiles

    Can we at least stick with facts if you're arguing the point

    They're also a damn sight more conspicuous than a lad with a drone controller.... speaking of facts and all that.

    Totally idiotic off topic posting


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