Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

ismat

end of the road wrote: »

because they are private individuals and not state law enforcement. even if sanctioned to cary out forced evictions they do not enjoy any rights compared to the gards so therefore the rules that apply to the gards do not apply. therefore you can resist

the bank were likely quick to give them the money as well.

Banks exist to take deposits and issue loans, and make a profit from same. If they asked the bank for a loan the bank would of evaluated the risk and granted the loan based on this application and the security they could obtain. The loan clearly has gone bad. Why would you think the bank should not be able to enforce their security? Business is business.

the_syco

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Doesn't add up why they would borrow heavily against the farm.

Milk prices were good at the time. When it tanked, their planned payments probably nosedived.

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

What more evidence do you want you absolute cabbage.. Look at the video posted last page. The man himself at another KBC eviction recently.

Members of Sinn Fein were once IRA terrorists (convicted bomb makers, etc). By your logic, all members of Sinn Fein are current IRA terrorists.

Omackeral

backspin. wrote: »

I agree. My problem was with the use of loyalist eviction squads. Surely there is a Dublin firm who could have done the eviction.

Their faces and addresses would be doing the rounds on social media if that was the case, like the gardai in Summerhill. If they donned balaclavas to prevent that, they'd be called paramilitaries. Sure the ones from this case are called it on here anyway! You can't win no matter what.

blueythebear

I've since seen the videos doing the rounds... it seems that on Tuesday, the occupants knew somehow the bank was coming so there was more than three "elderly" people there. It seems that they tried some half hearted resistance and thats what led to people being forcibly removed.

All this talk of PSA Licenses etc means nothing. Its irrelevant that PSA licenses are not on display or even if they exist. It should be stressed that the Gardai watched the entire eviction and did not intervene so to my mind, that's an endorsement of the security guys actions in the circumstances (which you don't see in the videos).

If they were willing to pay €1000 per month, how did the bank get a Court Order ? It is incredibly difficult to get a court order for possession in this country and I cannot buy the narrative being pushed on social media. It actually does not make any sense to any reasonable person.

P_1

Another concerning thing to consider is just how many loans were given based on milk prices continuing to rise and are now on shaky ground.

In light of the nonsense coming out of England is our capacity to produce our own food at risk due to this? I can't imagine too much milk was produced on that farm last week and the prospect of more being produced there is limited in the short term

Omackeral

Allinall wrote: »

How do you know they were loyalists?

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

IDG security firm, owned by an ex uda member.

Don't forget the facial hair.

Lefty Bicek

blueythebear wrote: »

All this talk of PSA Licenses etc means nothing. Its irrelevant that PSA licenses are not on display or even if they exist. It should be stressed that the Gardai watched the entire eviction and did not intervene so to my mind, that's an endorsement of the security guys actions in the circumstances (which you don't see in the videos).

Is it a requirement for security personnel to have identification visible when they are at work ?

Hammar

The Debt Collection agencies identity has been well shared on social media and is run by an ex UDR member. It's based in a town in Antrim.

mikeym

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Are the people on this forum at least in agreement that it was wrong and unlawful for a gang to assault the security men after the initial eviction?

You mean hired thugs?

These people are not saints by any means.

6541

Regardless of loans etc, this has set a very dangerous precedent. For some unusual reason whilst we are in the middle of a massive boom loads of people are really angry. This is the kind of nonsense that will prove a rallying cry to the folk who are just agitating for trouble. The authorities would want to tread very carefully here.

ismat

P_1 wrote: »

Another concerning thing to consider is just how many loans were given based on milk prices continuing to rise and are now on shaky ground.

In light of the nonsense coming out of England is our capacity to produce our own food at risk due to this? I can't imagine too much milk was produced on that farm last week and the prospect of more being produced there is limited in the short term

What difference does that make. If the price of milk was at 40 cpl would these people be going around handing out money to everyone as they had done better than expected? They would pocket every penny of it. They are like the vast majority of people with loans in trouble. They gambled and they lost. Don’t play the game if you can’t take the consequences of things going against you

end of the road

blueythebear wrote: »

I've since seen the videos doing the rounds... it seems that on Tuesday, the occupants knew somehow the bank was coming so there was more than three "elderly" people there. It seems that they tried some half hearted resistance and thats what led to people being forcibly removed.

All this talk of PSA Licenses etc means nothing. Its irrelevant that PSA licenses are not on display or even if they exist. It should be stressed that the Gardai watched the entire eviction and did not intervene so to my mind, that's an endorsement of the security guys actions in the circumstances (which you don't see in the videos).

If they were willing to pay €1000 per month, how did the bank get a Court Order ? It is incredibly difficult to get a court order for possession in this country and I cannot buy the narrative being pushed on social media. It actually does not make any sense to any reasonable person.

it's actually very relevant if PSA licences are not on display or exist as from what i understand it is an offence to not have the required badge on display.

Mad_maxx

Mrsmum wrote: »

This from AIB website

"Repayments that match your farm cashflow.
Repayment schedules (monthly, quarterly or half-yearly) may be structured to the high output months."

Poster said once per year is the norm.

STB.

Quote:

Omackeral wrote: »

Originally Posted by pablo128
Anyone else got any proof these lads were loyalists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fann Linn
Any proof they weren't?

Omackeral wrote: »

Checkmate.

There is no checkmate about it.

I watched the video and I am assuming its Ben Gilroy and his gang on site at the eviction and behind the video camera.

What is evident from the video is that one of the hired goons in black that is among those dragging people out, and is attempting to block someone videoing the goings on is challenged in an interaction with "You should be f***ing ashamed of yourself [doing this to] a fellow Irishman.” to which he retorts in a Northern accent “I am not ashamed of myself. I am British”. Its evident what that exchange was meant to do, and the resultant response was inevitable.

I am all for people paying their mortgages etc but whoever the idiot in KBC is that thought it was a good idea to send in unidentified Northern thugs with that type attitude should be fired. Stroketown has a long history with eviction and more than a little attitude ala Wind that Shakes the Barley.

riemann

6541 wrote: »

For some unusual reason whilst we are in the middle of a massive boom loads of people are really angry.

That unusual reason would be that the boom is mainly in Dublin.

Most people are so absorbed by the selected information pushed to them on their phones they've no idea what is actually happening.

There are plenty of people who know of the power of large numbers. No community is going to let a bunch of foreign hired goons run riot in their neighbourhood, whatever the reason. No one was seriously hurt and the message was signed, sealed and delivered.

This has nothing to do with the IRA, plenty of men still have a sense of camaraderie and standing by their neighbour.

gandalf

end of the road wrote: »

it's actually very relevant if PSA licences are not on display or exist as from what i understand it is an offence to not have the required badge on display.

If they weren't on display and they should have been then it should be looked at. However does it change the fact that the debtor's are unable to service or discharge their debt to the bank?

Mad_maxx

P_1 wrote: »

Another concerning thing to consider is just how many loans were given based on milk prices continuing to rise and are now on shaky ground.

In light of the nonsense coming out of England is our capacity to produce our own food at risk due to this? I can't imagine too much milk was produced on that farm last week and the prospect of more being produced there is limited in the short term

Milk prices are strong right now, not that that is relevant anyway

We are an absolute outlier when it comes to enforcing bad mortgages, it's more evictions we need, reading this thread and the bone headed posts from many has me worried if we are a mature democracy.

P_1

ismat wrote: »

What difference does that make. If the price of milk was at 40 cpl would these people be going around handing out money to everyone as they had done better than expected? They would pocket every penny of it. They are like the vast majority of people with loans in trouble. They gambled and they lost. Don’t play the game if you can’t take the consequences of things going against you

That's not what I meant. I'd imagine this isn't the only farm that's struggling to pay back loans based on what they forecast on covering the repayments collapsing. If a farm is repossessed that means the farm cannot operate until someone takes it over or the farmers sort something out with the bank.

Looking at what's happening with Brexit it looks like a lot of supply chains are going to turn into a mess. This can lead to more loans going into a default state and the cycle getting worse. The more farms that are being repossessed, the less food we can produce.

washman3

washman3 wrote: »

Maybe Irish people have finally woken up...!!!

Deleted User wrote: »

To what exactly? It sure isn't personal responsibility.

gctest50 wrote: »

To the fact some rural people could borrow a few hundred thousand and never pay it back ?


because 3 generation/800 years/one guy said he was English



Where is the money they borrowed ?

Woken up to the fact that we have two sets of rules in this country.
One rule for elderly farmers like these who it seems over borrowed to improve their farm (God knows whose advice they took) and another rule for the speculators like Johnny Ronan who borrowed hundreds of millions and was able to walk away unhindered leaving generations of taxpayers to pick up his tab when things went belly up. Guys like him were able to swan off unquestioned to their pre-prepared luxurious bolt-holes for a spell pre-determined by their peers, declaring 'bankruptcy' while plotting their return to the status quo when the anger abated.

blueythebear

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Is it a requirement for security personnel to have identification visible when they are at work ?

It is a requirement for a security guard to have visible an Identity Badge in Ireland, yes. There is also an allowance for them to not wear an ID badge where there is good reason not to (See Section 30 (4) of the Private Security Services Act 2004). I imagine, not wanting to have your name and address plastered over social media, is a good reason not to.

Lefty Bicek

gandalf wrote: »

If they weren't on display and they should have been then it should be looked at. However does it change the fact that the debtor's are unable to service or discharge their debt to the bank?

Are you ambivalent about the law being enforced by people who don't enforce the law ?

If you are, your opinion about anything else is worthless.

andekwarhola

Allinall wrote: »

So no evidence they were loyalists. Glad you cleared that up.

To be fair, if it is true that your man is running the firm, it'd be pretty naive to completely rule out that there's no loyalists involved.

Especially if one of them is on the video making a point of saying they're British.

blueythebear

washman3 wrote: »

Woken up to the fact that we have two sets of rules in this country.
One rule for elderly farmers like these who it seems over borrowed to improve their farm (God knows whose advice they took) and another rule for the speculators like Johnny Ronan who borrowed hundreds of millions and was able to walk away unhindered leaving generations of taxpayers to pick up his tab when things went belly up. Guys like him were able to swan off unquestioned to their pre-prepared luxurious bolt-holes for a spell pre-determined by their peers, declaring 'bankruptcy' while plotting their return to the status quo when the anger abated.

Nothing to stop this farmer going through bankruptcy too or a personal insolvency arrangement for that matter, but people who engage in this type of carry on do not obtain actual legal advice, just a load of waffle from some lad down the pub.

Lefty Bicek

blueythebear wrote: »

It is a requirement for a security guard to have visible an Identity Badge in Ireland, yes. There is also an allowance for them to not wear an ID badge where there is good reason not to (See Section 30 (4) of the Private Security Services Act 2004). I imagine, not wanting to have your name and address plastered over social media, is a good reason not to.

That's not a good reason at all.

A good reason not to show it might be a sensible operational reason eg you're on duty as an undercover store detective.

nice_guy80

If any of ye knew the history of Strokestown and the area in relation to evictions during the 19th century you would understand the strong feelings of a family being turned out of their home (owing money or not)

People don't forget these things in rural areas.

John Sacrimoni

blueythebear wrote: »

It is a requirement for a security guard to have visible an Identity Badge in Ireland, yes. There is also an allowance for them to not wear an ID badge where there is good reason not to (See Section 30 (4) of the Private Security Services Act 2004). I imagine, not wanting to have your name and address plastered over social media, is a good reason not to.

If the PSA badge is displayed correctly the name is not visible as it is on the back of the badge.

gandalf

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Are you ambivalent about the law being enforced by people who don't enforce the law ?

If you are, your opinion about anything else is worthless.

You did not read what I said did you.

If it's wrong that no ID was visible then those individuals should be dealt with to the full extent of the applicable law.

It doesn't mitigate the debtor's from their obligation though does it.

Mrsmum

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Poster said once per year is the norm.

Poster's point was that farm loans are very different from household mortgages and in fairness he was way closer to the truth that your suggestion of "completely untrue". In fact he may be 100% correct depending on the bank.

Lefty Bicek

andekwarhola wrote: »

To be fair, if it is true that an ex UDA man is running the firm, it'd be pretty naive to completely rule out that there's no loyalists involved.

Especially if one of them is on the video making a point of saying they're British.

Of course. Unless we should instead believe that they all knew each other in the Boy's Brigade.

There is such a tiresome lack of common-sense in some posters we have to deal with here.

6541

Its all fairly messed up. Hope the older folk who got evicted are okay and are been looked after.