Proposal for sliding scale of speeding fines / points

AndrewJRenko

JeffKenna wrote: »

Most of the hitchhikers I see have been on 100/80km stretch of roads so your dangerous assumption is incorrect.

THe problem is that you assume that your personal experience applies to all roads all the time. It doesn't.



There may well be pedestrians on the outskirts of towns, that's why there are particular speed limits in those areas. The limits aren't there for the craic.

SeanW

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And there's that assumption again, with the extra 'July' qualifier to try to make it stand up. I've collected kids from Dublin schools at 10pm at July weekends after a Ceilvent as part of a Gaeltacht week.

Schools are often used by foreign students for events during the summer too.

Those assumptions are very dangerous.

Ok, I'm going to try this one more time.

Take a hypothetical: Picture the scene - there's a primary school with 200-odd students from junior infants to 6th class, and it's about 1/2 km from a small town or large village. The closing bell rings at 3:30PM and all 200 students run for the gate at the same time. There are buses up the road a bit, some students walk home, and about 30-60 cars parked in various ways (some maybe not legal, so that might cause additional problems) waiting for 50-70 students who are driven to/from school for whatever reason. So you're going to have 200 children just doing, whatever, some of them may be jostling about, not paying attention, and there's a very real prospect of some 7 year old running out from between some of the standing cars to get to their parents car across the road or whatever. Maybe also some children are on or near the road waiting to be picked up, maybe they're playing or something while they're waiting.

Depending on how it's all laid out and what exact moment you arrive at this scene in your car, you may have to slow down to about 5 miles an hour and assume the same level of alertness as if you were driving through a drug cartel run barrio in Ciudad Juarez.

I don't "assume" that it's going to be a little bit different closer to midnight as 5 minutes after discharge time. I know, absolutely that it will be different because I regularly pass schools that are in total darkness, say, near midnight, but have also on occasion been driving in the daytime and come across schools where there are dozens of schoolchildren on the street/road coming and going in all different directions. And in many years driving, I've never encountered a situation where you have anything like the level of danger (at least not where schools are concerned) as when you have a school full of students coming or going at the same time. And that really does require a special level of care, hence my support of the type of variable speed limits/warnings like the American example I posted. If you can't understand why ... just, please, stay off the road. That's all I can say about that.

JeffKenna wrote:

Experience, drive through a town and pedestrians generally tend to be in the center at shops etc not a half mile out the road with no houses/shops buildings of any kind around.

Precisely. I have serious issues with 50kph and 60kph limits that are basically miles into the countryside. And it is mainly an ROI thing, elsewhere like Northern Ireland, you'll tend to see a much simpler pattern. Town: 30MPH. Town ends: National Speed Limit. None of this nonsense of having urban limits stretching miles into the countryside for no reason. You also see very low density areas being covered by 40MPH and 50MPH limits rather than 50kph. And the UK is not known for being particularly motorist friendly AFAIK.

SeanW

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

THe problem is that you assume that your personal experience applies to all roads all the time. It doesn't.

There may well be pedestrians on the outskirts of towns, that's why there are particular speed limits in those areas. The limits aren't there for the craic.

On what planet does this make any sense?

Take two examples from the same town. Both have 50kph limits. This is one road with a 50kph limit. And this is a street with a 50kph limit. Are you seriously suggesting that one is equally likely to encounter pedestrians in both areas? If it is your claim that one is equally likely to encounter pedestrians on a rural road, surrounded by nothing but fields and the odd 1970s one-off house that happens to be 2km from the nearest town as right smack in the middle of said down, then I'd really like to know your methodology in coming to that conclusion.

Leaving aside your other nonsense about phantom Pilates classes near midnight, you really need to explain this.

Is slowing down really that much of an inconvenience for some folks?

The time of the motor car being at the top of the pyramid is over. Time to consider other users of our nations infrastructure.

Personally, as much as I hate them, I fear we'll end up with speed bumps, chicanes and other traffic calming methods on major routes to slow down the numbskulls who think they are more important than everyone else.

Zebra3

JeffKenna wrote: »

Experience, drive through a town and pedestrians generally tend to be in the center at shops etc not a half mile out the road with no houses/shops buildings of any kind around.

Generally = most times = not always.

monument

SeanW wrote: »

On what planet does this make any sense?

Take two examples from the same town. Both have 50kph limits. This is one road with a 50kph limit. And this is a street with a 50kph limit. Are you seriously suggesting that one is equally likely to encounter pedestrians in both areas? If it is your claim that one is equally likely to encounter pedestrians on a rural road, surrounded by nothing but fields and the odd 1970s one-off house that happens to be 2km from the nearest town as right smack in the middle of said down, then I'd really like to know your methodology in coming to that conclusion.

Leaving aside your other nonsense about phantom Pilates classes near midnight, you really need to explain this.

On the grand scale of things that road with 50km/h is not normal in any county I know and if it is normal in county you should probably be more focused on getting a speed limit review rather than ranting online.

Recently I’ve come across more of the opposite —- 60km/h being applied where roads should remain 50km/h. They done it in Mayo recently, and some are ok going to 60km/h but others are a bad idea.

In any case, you can’t set fines etc for speed limits just because there’s some bad examples around.

AndrewJRenko

SeanW wrote: »

Ok, I'm going to try this one more time.

Take a hypothetical: Picture the scene - there's a primary school with 200-odd students from junior infants to 6th class, and it's about 1/2 km from a small town or large village. The closing bell rings at 3:30PM and all 200 students run for the gate at the same time. There are buses up the road a bit, some students walk home, and about 30-60 cars parked in various ways (some maybe not legal, so that might cause additional problems) waiting for 50-70 students who are driven to/from school for whatever reason. So you're going to have 200 children just doing, whatever, some of them may be jostling about, not paying attention, and there's a very real prospect of some 7 year old running out from between some of the standing cars to get to their parents car across the road or whatever. Maybe also some children are on or near the road waiting to be picked up, maybe they're playing or something while they're waiting.

Depending on how it's all laid out and what exact moment you arrive at this scene in your car, you may have to slow down to about 5 miles an hour and assume the same level of alertness as if you were driving through a drug cartel run barrio in Ciudad Juarez.

I don't "assume" that it's going to be a little bit different closer to midnight as 5 minutes after discharge time. I know, absolutely that it will be different because I regularly pass schools that are in total darkness, say, near midnight, but have also on occasion been driving in the daytime and come across schools where there are dozens of schoolchildren on the street/road coming and going in all different directions. And in many years driving, I've never encountered a situation where you have anything like the level of danger (at least not where schools are concerned) as when you have a school full of students coming or going at the same time. And that really does require a special level of care, hence my support of the type of variable speed limits/warnings like the American example I posted.

So when did the goalposts move from "It is not reasonable to expect motorists to adhere to school-limits at 10PM on a Sunday night" to "near midnight".

SeanW wrote: »

please, stay off the road. That's all I can say about that.