Very tempted but overwhelmed

deegs

Long story short.
Just moved home 5 months ago from abroad. Bought a €1000 1.8 petrol freelander (used by wife for school run and her work at approx 40km per day). Always planned to use for scrappage.
Then I got a job with a 125km commute (65km motorway and 60km secondary back roads, never traffic, 250km round trip) and got a 2.0 tdi a6 around the €5k mark around September. Just pumped 3k into servicing it and maintenance. We were all ignorantly happy ðŸ˜

My work has just just installed 8 charge points for EVs and I've only just started to look at options as a curiosity.

Unfortunately, it seems financially irresponsible to keep my old car... I should buy a 191 as it makes evonomuc sense.... <= This seems bonkers... Someone please tell me what I'm missing.

I am spending approx 680 p/m for fuel / tax / tolls / maintenance. Over three years I would also expect additional issues and repair costs like faulty turbo or alternator, head gasket etc to add 2-4000 to cost. At the end of this period I'd have a car worth about 2k or 0 if I subtract additional repair costs.

Now if I trade my freelander for scrappage (not sure it's eligible till Feb) or Audi as trade in I should avoid paying any additional and my monthly repayments + tax + tolls should be under the €600 mark. Fuel is free at work so at the end of 3 years in this scenario I'd have an asset worth approx €15k.

Buying a new car in this scenario seems like a government funded savings plan.... Is this correct, am I missing anything? Obviously figures will vary greatly depending finance etc. Yadda yadda

So options. I'm mostly looking at ionic for the all round deal + scrappage. But I will look at the leaf40 also.
I'm worried on the range as I'd prefer closrer to 400km so I could rely on work charging fully and not charge at home at all. This only seems possible with the Kona, and I've had the petrol version on loan from my folks last week and felt the trim was cheap for a 25k car. Trim is terrible for 38k but the range is awesome.

To make this feasible on my figures I'd have to get a loan of 5 years for Kona as opposed to 3 years for leaf/ionic to keep it under my current monthly spend. But then I'll need to charge at home which is both a cinconvience and tangible cost, albeit minor.

Like the idea of Kona, but think ionic may be a better price point but range is worrying.

What you guys think? Would I regret buying the smaller range? Appreciate your help.

DesperateDan

Here is some Kona numbers from my thread a while back. I don't see the issue with charging at home, it would probably cost you less than €400 a year if you are charging at work as well.

I also think that unless you know a dealer with a Kona at the moment, you might not get one before next July so that might have made your decision regarding range for you

liamog

I've calculated a 1c/km rule of thumb for our Ioniq when charging on night rate. So if you do have to charge overnight it's approx €6.25 a week, or around €27 a month.

Basically planning to only charge at work won't save you that much money. If you have a driveway/off street parking you can probably expect to spend around €200 on top of the grant for a home charger.

unkel

deegs wrote: »

Buying a new car in this scenario seems like a government funded savings plan.... Is this correct, am I missing anything?

Nope you're not missing anything. Dump your old car and buy a brand new EV like a Leaf or an Ioniq. You will save a fortune with your mileage.

I'm only doing about average mileage myself, but it is now cheaper for me (total cost of ownership) to own my Ioniq that I bought brand new than my previous car, which I got for a few hundred quid and which was 16 years old (the car was reliable and I did the maintenance myself - so not a money pit)

deegs

Ok, so assuming home charging every night (thanks guys) I don't object, just painful when I have free access but my range will halve / limit that savings, then unkel how realistic is a 130km cmute during depth of cold dark winter hitting an accident or traffic adding say an hour. So 65km motorway 65 back roads and 1 hour stuck in traffic on an icy windy day. Is there any concern the ionic / leaf won't make it?
Hard to justify the additional for Kona if above makes it.

listermint

deegs wrote: »

Ok, so assuming home charging every night (thanks guys) I don't object, just painful when I have free access but my range will halve / limit that savings, then unkel how realistic is a 130km cmute during depth of cold dark winter hitting an accident or traffic adding say an hour. So 65km motorway 65 back roads and 1 hour stuck in traffic on an icy windy day. Is there any concern the ionic / leaf won't make it?
Hard to justify the additional for Kona if above makes it.

An ioniq would eat that. Nom nom.

Lantus

That's some commute. I'd consider the car in general as your spending a lot of time in it. Personally I'd like to make one round trip without charging as in 2 years popularity may not guarantee that you get a charging spot. Also your job may change?

How would say a 2 or 3 year old octavia compare? 17k on capital car cost versus higher fuel costs. At 5l per 100km your at 15eu a day for fuel.

You should spreadsheet at least 3 scenarios factoring all core costs like car, interest, fuel, tax, servicing, repairs, nct etc. And over 5 years. That's you financial argument. So kona vs ioniq vs leaf40 vs 3yr old diesel vs 5 Yr old diesel.

You also need to score the car comfort and preference honestly and get good drives in all. While ioniq and leaf and kona would suit me fine the 60km of back roads may feel like hard work compared to an a6 or similar large saloon.

I'd try to avoid the term asset with a car. It's a depreciating money pit at the best.

Also at circa 50k mileage a year is a 5 year plan viable? Factor in battery degradation...

mickdw

Sure, it appears to be a reasonably cheap way into a new car however I'm not so sure it beats your current setup by as much as you believe. I would question the retained value in any electric car with circa 200k km on it at 3 year old.
Now if your commute suited a used leaf for €10k, the saving would be huge but the range requirements are pushing you into a new car with high depreciation. Do the maths again with worst case scenario re retained value on the electric car and see how it suits. It's Probably still the cheapest but maybe not the saving plan you believe it to be.

peposhi

While it appears to be a difficult decision to replace an ICE with an EV, it is actually proving to be the right one in almost all cases.
You have some serious millage to cover currently and picking the right car for you needs plenty of factors to be taken into consideration.
No matter what you buy it would depreciate eventually with that kind of millage. So I don’t think this is the most important thing.
Kona - Clearly range speaking Kona would be the best choice of all as even with battery degradation over time you’d still be able to cover a great number of km (in hundreds) per day. So if getting a loan to get the car is not a problem - you have no worry - your fuel and maintenance cost covers your repayments. The problem here is that Kona has not been tested yet by vast amount of owners to have a really good, real life feeback. From other side you have your warranty cover, so it should be OK.
IONIQ - a fantastic car, great efficiency and charging ability - but you are left with limited range, although quite good one, which leaves you relying on the home/work/public charging a lot more. This car will be perfect for you motorway commute, has been tested in real life conditions, available now so you can start saving even next week as the repayments will be significantly lower than Kona and less pressure if you change job (5 years is a long time).
L40 - bring similar the Ioniq goods to you but with more gadgets in the car, e-pedal and app that is great tool to control your car. This is my personal favourite, but I don’t know how fast you drive on motorways as you’d not get any near the efficiency of the Ioniq... also there’s a lot of blabbing about the rapidgate that you’d need to decide if it’s a bother.

Decisions, decisions...

In short:

1. Buy an EV that you like, does the range and is affordable for you and enjoy your life with having a full warranty and piece of mind.
Or
2. Keep buying ICEs every year/second year and keep dealing with the 2000 moving parts in it that can fail you each and every day...

liamog

I guess it really depends on how efficent your A6 Diesel is.


Fuelly is showing around 7l/100km for a 2014 Audi A6. Pumps.ie are showing an average of 139.9c for a litre of diesel at the moment.


With a daily return commute of 250km you doing at least 60,000km per year, which requires 4,200 litres of diesel, @1.399/l your annual fuel bill will be €5,875. If you only charged at home night rates, using the 1c/km rule of thumb, you'll add around €600 to your electricity bill.


Let's say you plan to keep the car for 3 years. Ask yourself do you think it will depreciate by more than €15,600, bearing in mind that the maintenance costs will also be alot less.

unkel

mickdw wrote: »

the range requirements are pushing you into a new car with high depreciation.

You are aware that EVs currently depreciate very little? Far less than ICE cars. Also, an EV will take a high mileage (say over 300k) far better than a diesel car, and without any maintenance of the drivetrain. Unlike diesels...

It is always prudent though to stick a few realistic figures into Excel and to test drive all cars you consider before buying

KCross

mickdw wrote: »

Sure, it appears to be a reasonably cheap way into a new car however I'm not so sure it beats your current setup by as much as you believe. I would question the retained value in any electric car with circa 200k km on it at 3 year old.
Now if your commute suited a used leaf for €10k, the saving would be huge but the range requirements are pushing you into a new car with high depreciation. Do the maths again with worst case scenario re retained value on the electric car and see how it suits. It's Probably still the cheapest but maybe not the saving plan you believe it to be.

Would you question the retained value in a 3yr old diesel with 200k on the clock?!
I'd suggest the EV would hold its value better than a diesel would in this scenario.


The depreciation argument against EV's doesnt exist anymore, so personally I wouldnt use that as a reason not to switch to EV. That doesnt mean he goes off and spends €38k though.



@deegs
A €38k Kona isnt justified in this scenario, so if you go for that its a decision made with the heart, not the head. And you do seem focussed on the money so I'd give the Kona a skip.

An Ioniq, Leaf 40, i3 etc (new or secondhand) would be ideal since you can utilise the work chargers. As others have pointed out you need to be sure you can access those chargers everyday.

If it happens that your work chargers are occupied or out of service do you have a plan B because neither car will cover your commute without a stop in that case, so you really would need to have a plan B (i.e. a rapid charger within reasonable reach of your commute) for that possibility. Have you checked the eCars map?

As liamog's figures show, I cant see how any ICE (even at bangernomics level) will match the EV for TCO for your mileage and you'll be driving a much nicer car with new tech ideally suited for motorways (lane keep assist, adaptive cruise etc). Your commute should be calmer!

But definitely get an extended test drive in whatever you buy and ideally drive the commute so you can feel confident about the range before you buy.

Lantus

KCross wrote: »

Would you question the retained value in a 3yr old diesel with 200k on the clock?!
I'd suggest the EV would hold its value better than a diesel would in this scenario.


The depreciation argument against EV's doesnt exist anymore, so personally I wouldnt use that as a reason not to switch to EV. That doesnt mean he goes off and spends €38k though.



@deegs
A €38k Kona isnt justified in this scenario, so if you go for that its a decision made with the heart, not the head. And you do seem focussed on the money so I'd give the Kona a skip.

An Ioniq, Leaf 40, i3 etc (new or secondhand) would be ideal since you can utilise the work chargers. As others have pointed out you need to be sure you can access those chargers everyday.

If it happens that your work chargers are occupied or out of service do you have a plan B because neither car will cover your commute without a stop in that case, so you really would need to have a plan B (i.e. a rapid charger within reasonable reach of your commute) for that possibility. Have you checked the eCars map?

As liamog's figures show, I cant see how any ICE (even at bangernomics level) will match the EV for TCO for your mileage and you'll be driving a much nicer car with new tech ideally suited for motorways (lane keep assist, adaptive cruise etc). Your commute should be calmer!

But definitely get an extended test drive in whatever you buy and ideally drive the commute so you can feel confident about the range before you buy.

The work charger dependancy is a big risk IMHO. Just a few days maintenance or fault or a few more EV users in the next 12 months could mean an inability to commute home. Assuming these are slow chargers so you'd need a long recharge time. That doesn't make sense in my book especially as you have kids.

The kona or 60kwh leaf due in 12 months or so?
Subject to both the economic and comfort arguments.

I'd be leaning towards towards comfort even if economically not the best option.

At 5l per 100km on diesel you'd be at 4.5k to 5k a year fuel give or take so I'd say the kona should balance the books on fuel versus capital cost. You need to verify those figures yourself.

I'd budget buying it and keeping it. It will be a fantastic long mileage EV so please consider a record of all maintenance issues servicing, battery cycles etc to give others an idea on long term use.

mickdw

unkel wrote: »

You are aware that EVs currently depreciate very little? Far less than ICE cars. Also, an EV will take a high mileage (say over 300k) far better than a diesel car, and without any maintenance of the drivetrain. Unlike diesels...

It is always prudent though to stick a few realistic figures into Excel and to test drive all cars you consider before buying

You are possibly using the example of a new EV with a waiting list as having little depreciation.
Tell the people who bought early Nissan leaf that they don't depreciate. Such is the advancement that the current generation might be seen to also be obsolete in short time. While the mileage itself won't be an issue for the car, if it's being traded in a 3 years, it will be least desirable of many used ones on offer so it's far from certain that it will be a low depreciator.
I don't like EV that look odd. Latest leaf looks ok.
Other than that and the golf, they just to me don't do the job imo. Even at that, a golf or a leaf would not be my idea of a nice car.

KCross

Lantus wrote: »

The work charger dependancy is a big risk IMHO. Just a few days maintenance or fault or a few more EV users in the next 12 months could mean an inability to commute home. Assuming these are slow chargers so you'd need a long recharge time. That doesn't make sense in my book especially as you have kids.

The kona or 60kwh leaf due in 12 months or so?
Subject to both the economic and comfort arguments.

I'd be leaning towards towards comfort even if economically not the best option.

At 5l per 100km on diesel you'd be at 4.5k to 5k a year fuel give or take so I'd say the kona should balance the books on fuel versus capital cost. You need to verify those figures yourself.

I'd budget buying it and keeping it. It will be a fantastic long mileage EV so please consider a record of all maintenance issues servicing, battery cycles etc to give others an idea on long term use.

He does have a second diesel to cover extended outages of the work charge point. I dont think it would be wise to spend an extra €20k or so just to cover that scenario.

If he gets caught on a particular day he needs to know what his plan B is. Beyond that I think its being too conservative to only consider a long range EV if a current EV can comfortably cover the commute. He needs a plan B though. If there are no rapids on the commute its a deal breaker, imo.

Just my opinion, everyone has their own comfort zone.

mickdw wrote: »

Tell the people who bought early Nissan leaf that they don't depreciate. Such is the advancement that the current generation might be seen to also be obsolete in short time.

That was because it was new tech and low demand for resale in an unproven and untrusted new sector of the market. We are passed that now.

The increasing demand has actually pushed the price of those 2011 cars up in recent times and demand is only going one direction, while supply is still constrained.

None of us have a crystal ball but high depreciation is not evident in the EV market right now and there are new models appearing. We can only go by what is happening over the last few years and high depreciation is not a thing for EV's right now. Depreciation on ICE isnt doing too well with all the cheap imports so I dont think there is anything to fear on the depreciation side... it will be the same or better than ICE.

mickdw wrote: »

While the mileage itself won't be an issue for the car, if it's being traded in a 3 years, it will be least desirable of many used ones on offer so it's far from certain that it will be a low depreciator.

No different to a diesel trade in with high mileage.

mickdw wrote: »

I don't like EV that look odd. Latest leaf looks ok.
Other than that and the golf, they just to me don't do the job imo. Even at that, a golf or a leaf would not be my idea of a nice car.

Lack of choice is an issue alright. If you dont like the current EV's on the market you just have to suffer on with the diesels. The OP seems happy enough to consider the current EV's and the savings are substantial. I think those savings are a big motivator!

mickdw

KCross wrote: »

He does have a second diesel to cover extended outages of the work charge point. I dont think it would be wise to spend an extra €20k or so just to cover that scenario.

If he gets caught on a particular day he needs to know what his plan B is. Beyond that I think its being too conservative to only consider a long range EV if a current EV can comfortably cover the commute. He needs a plan B though. If there are no rapids on the commute its a deal breaker, imo.

Just my opinion, everyone has their own comfort zone.




That was because it was new tech and low demand for resale in an unproven and untrusted new sector of the market. We are passed that now.

The increasing demand has actually pushed the price of those 2011 cars up in recent times and demand is only going one direction, while supply is still constrained.

None of us have a crystal ball but high depreciation is not evident in the EV market right now and there are new models appearing. We can only go by what is happening over the last few years and high depreciation is not a thing for EV's right now. Depreciation on ICE isnt doing too well with all the cheap imports so I dont think there is anything to fear on the depreciation side... it will be the same or better than ICE.




No different to a diesel trade in with high mileage.




Lack of choice is an issue alright. If you dont like the current EV's on the market you just have to suffer on with the diesels. The OP seems happy enough to consider the current EV's and the savings are substantial. I think those savings are a big motivator!

But we had posters on here telling us that everyone should buy a leaf and that it was the best car ever. I believe for a time here it was suggested as the right choice for everyone, from those looking at everything from superminis to Porsches.
In relation to the resale of the higher mileage car,it is very different to a high mile diesel. Diesel has a broader market and there is always a buyer at any mileage and an in-depth knowledge of what tends to go wrong.
A 3 year old high mile electric car will have questionable resale even if the car is more serviceable than any diesel.

KCross

mickdw wrote: »

But we had posters on here telling us that everyone should buy a leaf and that it was the best car ever. I believe for a time here it was suggested as the right choice for everyone, from those looking at everything from superminis to Porsches.

I dont know who that is, but its not what I see on the forum. There are fanboys and loonies on every forum... even the motors forum!

Clearly the Leaf isnt for everyone.

mickdw wrote: »

In relation to the resale of the higher mileage car,it is very different to a high mile diesel. Diesel has a broader market and there is always a buyer at any mileage and an in-depth knowledge of what tends to go wrong.
A 3 year old high mile electric car will have questionable resale even if the car is more serviceable than any diesel.

What is that based on though. Is it based on real world experience of high mileage EV's being sold or just your idea of it?

Rather than go over and back on it, take a look for yourself on carzone and donedeal and see what s/h EV's are making and decide for yourself if the depreciation is bad or not. Just be careful to exclude the battery rental examples.

Personally I'd be alot more nervous of buying a high mile diesel (unless it was real rock bottom price with big depreciation) than a high mile EV.

Mike9832

mickdw wrote: »

A 3 year old high mile electric car will have questionable resale even if the car is more serviceable than any diesel.

Hyundai Ioniq i believe has a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty on the car and 8 year/200,000 km warranty on the battery

Resale after 3 years should be pretty decent compared to any diesel imo

unkel

I bought my EV brand new nearly 2 years ago for €25k on the road. I would be surprised if I didn't easily enough get €22k in a private sale today.

Show me one family size diesel or petrol car out there around that price that has as low a depreciation...

Lantus

Op has a 2nd diesel if any fault or issue with chargers is good enough to give notice. If he arrives at work and has an issue the other car is 120km away. 1hr + drive for wife each way.

Doesn't seem like a sane choice of vehicle to commute.

KCross

Lantus wrote: »

Op has a 2nd diesel if any fault or issue with chargers is good enough to give notice. If he arrives at work and has an issue the other car is 120km away. 1hr + drive for wife each way.

Doesn't seem like a sane choice of vehicle to commute.

He will have a good 80km or so of spare range after arriving at work. There is surely one, if not two, rapids on his motorway run for that exceptional case. It would be useful to know what route he is on.

He needs to check what rapids are on his commute and decide if he is comfortable with that. It wouldnt bother me anyway. I'd be willing to put up with occasional inconvenience if it was saving me €5k net a year!

optimal

If he is going ev he should aim to get one that will him to work and home. As someone said previously, there is no guarantee that he will always be able to charge at work and then looking for a FC will be some pain. Also it is highly unlikely that charging will remain free at work so I wouldn’t be banking on that.

deegs

Wow folks, checking this thread multiple times a day and I'm overwhelmed again by the response, discussion and helpful advise. I really appreciate it all. I'll definitely keep a log of long distance use and payback any new members in the future.

KCross wrote: »

If he gets caught on a particular day he needs to know what his plan B is. Beyond that I think its being too conservative to only consider a long range EV if a current EV can comfortably cover the commute. He needs a plan B though. If there are no rapids on the commute its a deal breaker, imo.

Embarrassingly I didn't consider a plan b but gave it some thought yesterday.
I commute from East cork to UL campus. I usually take the Dublin road and then turn off through mitchelston. There is a rapid charge point at fermoy. Alternatively the main cork Limerick road has multiple charge points along the way. It is a lil slower and has no tolls so if work was down or out I could chcarge via the route there or any of the points around Limerick. Home harge should be fine on the cork side.

The scrappage deal on ionic is attractive. But on the Kona I'd try to trade my a6 in. Only work about 5k but I'd push for 7k, unlikely they'd want to bargain on Kona.

I don't really have a spare car, as my wife uses whichever is left.

Seems like to a ionic should do it, but I do leave at 5am and get home at 7pm so lights, heating and coldness will make it tricky. I'll try to do the drive in a test car to see for myself but Feb is prob the worst conditions to test so I'd like to do the drive now in ionic with 50km to spare.
Kona... They need to give me a good trade on the a6 to make it feasible as no scrappage. Money is defo not available.

I think it will remain free at work. I expect work to absorb any Costs. Great benefits etc.

Thanks again folks! Great community!

peposhi

deegs wrote: »

I'll try to do the drive in a test car to see for myself but Feb is prob the worst conditions to test so I'd like to do the drive now in ionic with 50km to spare.
Kona... They need to give me a good trade on the a6 to make it feasible as no scrappage. Money is defo not available.

Actually is best to test it in the worst conditions. And in fairness any month from now till March is good to do so.

I can see that Kona is still an option for you. I drove the car yesterday. I can confirm from that this kind of range and power is a game changer! For any current EV driver or people entering the EV world. Te car is 2/3 of the size of your A6 though
Since I drove te Kona I made my decision not to upgrade my L30 to any 40kwh battery cars now and wait and pick from the available 60kwh options in 192.

The backup plan for any electric vehicle is a three pin socket and an extension cord through a window. You can charge about (close to) 100 km of range in a typical 8 hour workday from a standard socket.

2 kW net for 8 hours is 16 kWh, i.e. over a half a battery worth of charge on IONIQ and close to half on a LEAF 40. This combined with the residual charge arriving to work would allow close to a full battery by the end of the day.

KCross

deegs wrote: »

Embarrassingly I didn't consider a plan b but gave it some thought yesterday.
I commute from East cork to UL campus. I usually take the Dublin road and then turn off through mitchelston.

Do you go through the Toll on the M8 by Watergrasshill? You should get a discount on that toll if you have an EV. Thats worth upto €500/yr.

deegs wrote: »

There is a rapid charge point at fermoy. Alternatively the main cork Limerick road has multiple charge points along the way.

Hmm... What route is that? Are you talking Mallow, Charleville?
The charge points on that route are no use to you. You can only pull 7kW off those. You would be sitting in the car for hours.

From what you've said your main route is
East Cork-->Watergrasshill(Toll)-->Mitchelstown-->Ballylanders-->Hospital-->Limerick

Is that your route or do you go to Jct10(Cahir) and turn off there?

If you bought a Leaf (ChaDeMo) you would have the following rapids you could use
Fermoy, Cahir(J10) and two in Limerick. So, well covered for a Plan B if the work charge points were down.

If you bought an Ioniq (CCS) you would have 2 rapids as a Plan B... Fermoy and Limerick, both of which are <70km from UL so you should be able to make both of those if needed due to work chargers being out.

If you buy the Kona you dont need a Plan B as long as you have home charging. Obviously thats the ideal but its a very expensive option.

deegs

Yip... East Cork-->Watergrasshill(Toll)-->Mitchelstown-->Ballylanders-->Hospital-->Limerick

KCross wrote: »

If you bought a Leaf (ChaDeMo) you would have the following rapids you could use
Fermoy, Cahir(J10) and two in Limerick. So, well covered for a Plan B if the work charge points were down.

If you bought an Ioniq (CCS) you would have 2 rapids as a Plan B... Fermoy and Limerick, both of which are <70km from UL so you should be able to make both of those if needed due to work chargers being out.

If you buy the Kona you dont need a Plan B as long as you have home charging. Obviously thats the ideal but its a very expensive option.

Great summary! Thanks!

deegs

So just an update.
Tested both ionic and kona. Both available right now in white. There is another boat of Hyundai's coming in on 20th of Feb if you want to order another color.

Loved power and range of Kona, but that's about all. Wasn't keen on interior design or ergonomics.

Ionic on the other hand was fantastic. Loved design and ergonomics. Lack of power will take some getting used too coming from a 2.0tdi but a far better deal overall. Better spec, styleing and interior space and comfort.

White is my least favorite color so was tempted to order a fiery red but browsing now I see the roof and bumpber gloss black wrap looks fantastic so this will probably be my choice. Will look for finance options and hopefully put down a deposit during week!

unkel

deegs wrote: »

Lack of power will take some getting used too coming from a 2.0tdi

You weren't driving in sport mode so. 0-60 has been timed independently at just over 8s, which is faster than almost any 2.0tdi. And that is only the half of it as EVs have their biggest acceleration from zero because of the immediate availability of 100% of the torque. No turbo lag as with any small engined petrol or diesel car and no manual gearbox (in fact there is only one gear) helps too.

I have watched hundreds of Audi and BMW owners in my rear view mirror with shock and suprise on their faces - childish I know but it does not get old

deegs

Ah... Definitely wasn't in sport. I was on dual carriageway and flooring it from about 60kmph I mention a lack of power and we discussed sports mode but didn't change as I was getting a feel for it. Not a huge issue, just looking for omph at 60ish so I can over take lorries on the secondary roads when I hit a straight stretch. Not too shabby if that's my only issue!

deegs

deegs wrote: »

Ah... Definitely wasn't in sport. I was on dual carriageway and flooring it from about 60kmph I mention a lack of power and we discussed sports mode but didn't change as I was getting a feel for it. Not a huge issue, just looking for omph at 60ish so I can over take lorries on the secondary roads when I hit a straight stretch. Not too shabby if that's my only issue!

Kona on the other hand was extremely impressive in the same scenario.... The airplane turbo that goes when you floor it is a sick bonus ðŸ˜

unkel

deegs wrote: »

I was on dual carriageway and flooring it from about 60kmph I mention a lack of power and we discussed sports mode but didn't change as I was getting a feel for it. Not a huge issue, just looking for omph at 60ish so I can over take lorries on the secondary roads when I hit a straight stretch. Not too shabby if that's my only issue!

Acceleration from 0km/h is excellent, but acceleration from 60km/h to overtake is ok, but certainly no better than the tdi in turbo rev range. And there is very noticeable lack of power when accelerating from say 100km/h in Ioniq. You know it only has 118bhp when you do that

Kona has a lot more power, so doesn't have this problem

People who have driven the old Leaf and the new model have said the same, as the new Leaf has a lot more power, so can accelerate much better at motorway speeds

peposhi

Ioniq is much better value for money unless you really need the range.

deegs

Just making sure this work charger will charge the ionic within 8 hours. I have a spec sheet and it's a 7kwh charger but it doesn't say if the apapter / charger will fit the ionic?

peposhi

deegs wrote: »

Just making sure this work charger will charge the ionic within 8 hours. I have a spec sheet and it's a 7kwh charger but it doesn't say if the apapter / charger will fit the ionic?

The cable that comes with your car has a standard plug that fits all slow chargers in Ireland. The difference is on the other side of the cable - the plug that goes into a Leaf and Ioniq e.g. is a different type.
So no worries here.

unkel

deegs wrote: »

Just making sure this work charger will charge the ionic within 8 hours. I have a spec sheet and it's a 7kwh charger but it doesn't say if the apapter / charger will fit the ionic?

Yes the cable that came with your Ioniq will fit and that charger will charge the Ioniq from completely empty to completely full in about 4 hours

The Bishop Basher

unkel wrote: »

Nope you're not missing anything. Dump your old car and buy a brand new EV like a Leaf or an Ioniq. You will save a fortune with your mileage.

I'm only doing about average mileage myself, but it is now cheaper for me (total cost of ownership) to own my Ioniq that I bought brand new than my previous car, which I got for a few hundred quid and which was 16 years old (the car was reliable and I did the maintenance myself - so not a money pit)

I’m genuinely intrigued...

I’m currently driving a bangernomics 1.9 diesel which only cost me a couple of grand so there’s no discernible depreciation..

I do all my own serving and most repairs but the car is reliable and costs me very little to keep on the road..

My mileage is low and would defiantly suit a full EV although I would probably only buy PHEV as I couldn’t be arsed with the planning and potential delays involved on the occasional longer trip..

How would my cost of ownership be less ?

unkel

My car was not a 1.9 diesel but a 3l petrol

So tax + petrol + depreciation was about 1700 + 2500 + 0 = 4200

My EV: tax + electricity + depreciation: 120 + 100 + 2000 = 2220

Cheaper to buy a brand new car than to keep driving my worthless banger! Everything else is cheaper too. Maintenance, tolls, insurance, etc.

peposhi

unkel wrote: »

My car was not a 1.9 diesel but a 3l petrol

So tax + petrol + depreciation was about 1700 + 2500 + 0 = 4200

My EV: tax + electricity + depreciation: 120 + 100 + 2000 = 2220

Cheaper to buy a brand new car than to keep driving my worthless banger! Everything else is cheaper too. Maintenance, tolls, insurance, etc.

Unkel, you’ve missed €25k towards a new car .
The poster above is asking how come he’d be better off with an EV. If he plans to buy a new/nearly new car then the math is good, but in his case I think the bangeronomics work...

unkel

peposhi wrote: »

Unkel, you’ve missed €25k towards a new car

It is you who missed the two grand depreciation I included

deegs

The depreciation is the inverse of upfront purchase cost so it works out the same I suppose.
In my scenario I'm getting a loan and my loan repayments + tax + feul + maintenance on new car cones to 500 per month. On my old diesel it comes to 800+ per month (and I also service and do minor repairs myself). For the few years of my loan I'm almost halving my total cost of ownership after I pay off the loan I've almost eliminated it. Practically free car with practically free fuel and a warranty for 8 years or 200km on battery!

The simpliest way is to figure out your fuel, tax + maintenance cost (even if doing yourself) and see how long it would take to pay back a new car by eliminating them. Then you will be left with a free car.

I sure as hell want to pay 26k to Hyundai over 3 years and get a cool car at the end, than pay 26k to topaz (diesel), government(tax), and AUDI/factors (parts) to barely keep my old car on the road... The upgrade in safety tech alone is staggering.

Anyway... I put down a deposit today... Only 3 left in Ireland unless someone cancels their order!

Lantus

unkel wrote: »

It is you who missed the two grand depreciation I included

2k depreciation? That's less than 180 a month. And it's not what your spending on a car. Just a theoretical decrease in value.

A new ioniq needs a 10k deposit and 389 a month. That's 4680 a year cost to buy an EV. Plus tax and fuel of course.

unkel

Lantus wrote: »

2k depreciation? That's less than 180 a month. And it's not what your spending on a car. Just a theoretical decrease in value.

Just a theoretical decrease in value? I think you'll find depreciation is a real cost.

Depreciation, interest (if you have to borrow money to buy the car) and opportunity costs of money (if you don't have to borrow money to buy the car, you could have invested it which would generate money) are the costs, what you actually paid for the car is irrelevant to total cost of owning it...

The Bishop Basher

Thanks guys..

I was getting a bit excited there but it would add to my costs quite significantly..

At the very most I use 2 tanks of diesel a month and when I factor in tax, insurance and maintenance, I’m paying a lot less then €600.

I’d need to be doing a lot of mileage, paying a lot of tolls and have a good bit go wrong..

I wouldn’t factor in depreciation on a bangornomics as I write off the purchase cost as soon as I buy it..

I wouldn’t factor in expensive failures either as I’ve only had a couple in over 20 years.

I can’t wait to get an EV but couldn’t justify paying more for it..

Guess I’ll keep the tractor going a bit longer..

Best of luck with the new car deegs :-)

Lantus

unkel wrote: »

Just a theoretical decrease in value? I think you'll find depreciation is a real cost.

Depreciation, interest (if you have to borrow money to buy the car) and opportunity costs of money (if you don't have to borrow money to buy the car, you could have invested it which would generate money) are the costs, what you actually paid for the car is irrelevant to total cost of owning it...

To most of us what we pay for a car is very relevant. Its a question of affordability.

Depreciation costs are nice but not at the expense of real world cost. What comes out your pay packet every month.

unkel

Still a possibility, Rennaws. If you buy something like a 2014 Leaf for about €9k, you will very likely have almost zero depreciation. These cars in fact have been going up in value in the last year or so, even though the model was replaced with a brand new one. Your depreciation will almost certainly cost you less than 2 tanks of diesel a month plus the extra €500 per year you pay on tax on your diesel compared to an EV

unkel

Lantus wrote: »

To most of us what we pay for a car is very relevant. Its a question of affordability.

Most people in Ireland can't afford to buy a car hence why PCP is so popular here

The Bishop Basher

unkel wrote: »

Still a possibility, Rennaws. If you buy something like a 2014 Leaf for about €9k, you will very likely have almost zero depreciation. These cars in fact have been going up in value in the last year or so, even though the model was replaced with a brand new one. Your depreciation will almost certainly cost you less than 2 tanks of diesel a month plus the extra €500 per year you pay on tax on your diesel compared to an EV

Just had a good look at carsireland and private sales on Donedeal.

I'm not crazy about the Leaf. I prefer the later model.. I also like the the ionic and the i3 but they would all require a significant spend and i've got used to very cheap driving.

I notice the Prius's are now in Bangornomics range so they'll all make their way down the line soon enough..

I'm in no rush to lose the ICE but as soon as it makes financial sense i'll get one. I imagine the fast charging network should vastly improve over the next year or so too.

unkel

Rennaws wrote: »

I'm not crazy about the Leaf. I prefer the later model..

I'd prefer a Tesla Model S P100D Ludicrous over my modest Ioniq. But we can't always get what we want

The Bishop Basher

unkel wrote: »

But we can't always get what we want

We can if we wait long enough..

I’ve owned a few €100k plus cars.

I’ve never paid more then €8k

unkel

Rennaws wrote: »

We can if we wait long enough..

I’ve owned a few €100k plus cars.

So have I.

I'll be dead before a working P100D Ludicrous is available for under €8k though