Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

batgoat

hotmail.com wrote: »

The lives of minorities in America was bad before Trump got into power. Obama's speeches did little to improve the lives of black Americans.


I'm not saying Trump is good or anything, but getting excited about his daily madness is probably unhealthy particularly when you understand that his madness doesn't generally affect the average American.

You didn't have anything like Charlottesville or the president saying that there were decent people among the Nazis.... The president is enabling Nazis. We only had a bomber two months back who was inspired by him who targeted all the various people he attacks on stage. The fact that his antics primarily affect minorities is a pretty poor reason to ignore the **** that he does.

His impact is going to be long term, the US has basically already lost its superpower position. Lacking credibility on the international stage matters in the long run.

Lastly, his absolute abuse of his role is relevant for the very fact that his behaviour will impact the role of the presidency for ever more. Would you have said that everyone should have ignored Nixon's behaviour at the time?

hotmail.com

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

He has the turkeys not only vote for Christmas, he has them scream, yell, clap and stomp their feet for it. And just as a sideorder of spite, he is destroying the environment. Yes, his madness is at least partially a disguise for the really nasty stuff he's doing. The stuff that is turning a huge part of America into a third world country, whilst the richest of the rich get more and more

Large parts of America was already in third world country status before Trump.

He'll be president for 4 years, possibly 8. Then someone new will come in, probably a Democrat. = American democracy.

dr.fuzzenstein

hotmail.com wrote: »

Large parts of America was already in third world country status before Trump.

He'll be president for 4 years, possibly 8. Then someone new will come in, probably a Democrat. = American democracy.

So you don't mind the crazy things he says or does or that the poor get poorer and that minorities have it even worse.
If you really that apathetic and uncaring, why you even bother defending him?
Just bored? Nothing better to do?

dr.fuzzenstein

If the sole defense for a corrupt, criminal lunatic in the White House is "ah shurr, he's no the worst", that's a pretty sh*tty argument.

hotmail.com

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

So you don't mind the crazy things he says or does or that the poor get poorer and that minorities have it even worse. If you really that apathetic and uncaring, why you even bother defending him? Just bored? Nothing better to do?

The problem isn't Trump. It's the US system, culture and false illusion of the American Dream.

The inequalities and prejudices have always been there in America. They didn't start 2 years ago!

Pelvis

Does Pence's wife know he's sitting next to another woman?

hotmail.com

batgoat wrote:

His impact is going to be long term, the US has basically already lost its superpower position. Lacking credibility on the international stage matters in the long run.

batgoat wrote:

Lastly, his absolute abuse of his role is relevant for the very fact that his behaviour will impact the role of the presidency for ever more. Would you have said that everyone should have ignored Nixon's behaviour at the time?

Maybe it's a good thing if it loses its superpower status.

By Nixon, I presume you're referring to his bombing of Combodia which killed hundreds of thousands of people. Oh but I suspect you mean Watergate... as if that actually affected anyone.

Itssoeasy

Pelvis wrote: »

Does Pence's wife know he's sitting next to another woman?

Probably.

26000 Elephants

Hurrache wrote: »

There's actually GOP members complaining about him tricking him into saying it.

[

Thats pretty weak. Suggesting you need to be "shrewd" to get Trump to say something stupid is like saying you need to train as a dentist in order to brush your teeth,

dr.fuzzenstein

hotmail.com wrote: »

The problem isn't Trump. It's the US system, culture and false illusion of the American Dream.

The inequalities and prejudices have always been there in America. They didn't start 2 years ago!

Well, I do agree with you there. It has to be said though, he took it to cartoon supervillain and panto levels.
It seems that there were millions of people who were waiting for their voices to be heard. It's not a good sign that the answer was Trump.
I have often complained that the American Dream is just used to tell people that anyone who doesn't make it is useless and stupid.
It's just always so disappointing that protest votes are never anything good or positive.
They cheer him for the fact that he is an even bigger cnut than anyone who came before him and that he's taking an even bigger dump on them.
That's cutting your nose off and nothing else.

John_C

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Thats pretty weak. Suggesting you need to be "shrewd" to get Trump to say something stupid is like saying you need to train as a dentist in order to brush your teeth,

When I read that tweet, the first thing I did was look up Schumer's religion. The word 'shrewd' sounded a bit like a dog whistle.

SimonTemplar

If it was Schumer's intention to trap Trump into taking blame for a government shutdown, Trump fell for it hook, line and sinker.

That whole meeting was like two parents trying to talk sense to a petulant teenager.

mcmoustache

SimonTemplar wrote: »

If it was Schumer's intention to trap Trump into taking blame for a government shutdown, Trump fell for it hook, line and stinker.

That whole meeting was like two parents trying to talk sense to a petulant teenager.

It really had that look. Nancy Pelosi was the exasperated Mom while Chuck Schumer was the Dad seeing the funny side. Meanwhile Trump was the teenager thinking he was going to become a millionaire by spending his savings on scratch cards.


I thought the interactions were quite eye-opening.

theguzman

I found it a hillarious interview as did many millions of Americans who watched it, like one told me, President Trump is the best thing on TV, my salary is up, the stock market is up and crime is going down and Trumps bull in a china shop no holds barred approach is resonating well across America and it will take a truely remarkable character to topple him at the next Presidential election. I honestly thought he'd never go in the same room as Nanci Pelosi.

Itssoeasy

SimonTemplar wrote: »

If it was Schumer's intention to trap Trump into taking blame for a government shutdown, Trump fell for it hook, line and sinker.

That whole meeting was like two parents trying to talk sense to a petulant teenager.

Which is why I said earlier when Trump said he'd take the blame you could see Schumer trying to not smile too much. i don't think it was Schumer's intention but you can see when Trump went down that road he went with Trump.

dr.fuzzenstein

theguzman wrote: »

I found it a hillarious interview as did many millions of Americans who watched it, like one told me, President Trump is the best thing on TV, my salary is up, the stock market is up and crime is going down and Trumps bull in a china shop no holds barred approach is resonating well across America and it will take a truely remarkable character to topple him at the next Presidential election. I honestly thought he'd never go in the same room as Nanci Pelosi.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-10/donald-trump-owns-this-stock-market

The Trump administration’s policies, passed as legislation by Congress and implemented by the executive branch, have driven interest rates higher, made deficits bigger and led to a trade war, and are risking a global slowdown and even a recession.

https://qz.com/1422159/trumps-stock-market-still-lags-gains-made-under-obama/

The US stock market is in the midst of its longest losing streak of Donald Trump’s presidency. Although things are looking up ahead of the open today (Oct. 12), the six-day slide has erased nearly 7% from the stocks in the benchmark S&P 500 index.

Also, the stock market was rising for eight continuous years under Obama.
Anyone who has an IQ of over 50 should be aware of that.
Odd you should have missed that. Unless you're 15 and live in the depths of the bog in Ireland without TV and internet.

Christy42

I would point out that crime has also been decreasing for decades (even before Obama) but it looks like Trump will get credit for that as well. Remember during the election Republicans were talking about how the issue is people "feel" crime is up?

From a voter stand point they are not wrong and from a fact stand point. Well the facts haven't mattered for a while.

Thargor

theguzman wrote: »

I found it a hillarious interview as did many millions of Americans who watched it, like one told me, President Trump is the best thing on TV, my salary is up, the stock market is up and crime is going down and Trumps bull in a china shop no holds barred approach is resonating well across America and it will take a truely remarkable character to topple him at the next Presidential election. I honestly thought he'd never go in the same room as Nanci Pelosi.

Yeah that 'overheard in a coffee shop' crap doesn't really fly outside of America, nobody believes it around here, must troll harder.

everlast75

If Flynn lying about contact with Russia was sufficient to have him step down, does anyone have a reason why Trump, who was equally or even more compromised, should not relinquish command to Pence pending a full investigation?


Without being conspiratorial, and taking it to the level of him being a Russian agent (which isn't that big of a leap being honest), there currently exists, at the very least, a significant national security issue.

duploelabs

everlast75 wrote: »

If Flynn lying about contact with Russia was sufficient to have him step down, does anyone have a reason why Trump, who was equally or even more compromised, should not relinquish command to Pence pending a full investigation?


Without being conspiratorial, and taking it to the level of him being a Russian agent (which isn't that big of a leap being honest), there currently exists, at the very least, a significant national security issue.

Because Flynn is an ex military commander, he has come to accept through his career that there are acceptable losses.
Trump is a petulant man-child who has had a life of everything handed to him whilst surrounded by yes men. His ego and humility (or lack of the latter) means that he never publucally accepts defeat (or anything going wrong for him), his tweet last Friday stating that the court documents completely exonerated him (when they clearly identified individual 1) demonstrate this

pixelburp

I just watched that Pelosi-Schumer-Trump video and ... well. I don't hold much water for the two Democrats but they ably scored the open goal presented to them. I think it speaks volumes as to how little control the White House staff has over Trump, that this meeting took place at all. Anyone with an ounce of sense or PR could tell Trump was only going to walk (and talk) himself into a trap. It was quite a farce, but the Democrats managed to maintain some dignity (and like I said I wouldn't ordinarily have any time for either of them)

Unless I'm forgetting, I'm fairly sure this is the first public discussion we've seen between Trump and another politician since 2016, right? All those press conferences, the various rallies, this feels like the most we've seen his politics and views challenged in open air. The man floundered and then some, waffling out his depth while the establishment politicians kept feeding the rope.

It feels like a sneak preview of the 2020 debates in many respects: and perhaps the difference between 2016 and then will be that Trump no longer possesses that frisson of potential energy, the outsider candidate people can plug their desires into. The polls will tell, but I heard nothing of Trump that sounded different to those debates with Clinton, yet this time it comes with the weight of 4 years of government, and an increasingly suffocating Mueller investigation.

Leroy42

The fact that the some in the GOP think that a defence of "Chuck made him say it" when talking about POTUS sums everything up.

Yet we are supposed to believe that this man is going to get the better of NK and China? Or stand up to Putin? But Chuck made him angry and so he said the wrong thing?

Remember, this is the man that also mispoke during the Press conference with Putin. How can anyone allow this man near anything given that they fully accept he cannot be trusted to control himself?

Tell me how

Leroy42 wrote: »

The fact that the some in the GOP think that a defence of "Chuck made him say it" when talking about POTUS sums everything up.

Yet we are supposed to believe that this man is going to get the better of NK and China? Or stand up to Putin? But Chuck made him angry and so he said the wrong thing?

Remember, this is the man that also mispoke during the Press conference with Putin. How can anyone allow this man near anything given that they fully accept he cannot be trusted to control himself?

This is the point I was making earlier.

Tell me how wrote: »

Whoever on Trump's side gave the ok for that to be on camera could be accused of trying to sabotage him. There is no way that that could have been expected to end positively for him.

Given machinations around the Chief of staff role and a replacement for Kelly recently, it looks that irrespective of what Mueller is up to, this is breaking down from the inside.

I'm still leaning towards Trump using health claims to protect himself and stepping aside before 2020 and the American system of plea-bargaining meaning the establishment is just happy he is gone and so he essentially gets away with it while Cohen, Flynn et al are pointed to as evidence that the justice was served.

Leroy42

Oh, I don't think anyone advised him to do it. This is a tactic he has used lots of times before, he has even tried it on foreign leaders when they sit there. The difference is that he was over confident, and probably thought that it was in his favour as 2v2 but he was better than the rest.

His first problem, as Nancy pointed out, was that this was political and he is very far from an accomplished politician and he was dealing with two very competent Dems. The second was the his 2nd, Pence, was not even a factor. In fact, his demeanour betrayed his real thinking on how it was going.

I fully believe that Trump thought this was a great idea, get the Dems out from behind their podiums, into the 'real' world of the TV cameras and the press, where he, he believes, is king. He would force them to give into his wall, in front of the nations TV cameras. Not only would he get his funding, but he would embarrass the top two dems and prove just how brilliant he actually is.

It backfired completely and it now looks like a child being 'controlled' by the grown ups whilst having a tantrum. The fact that he then took full ownership of any shutdown gives 100% control to the Dems. They can pretty much demand anything and if Trump refuses, and the government shuts down, it is all of him.

I bet they can't believe how great it went for them.

Trent Houseboat

I suspect that the line will not be that Schumer bamboozled Trump into accepting responsibility for any shutdown, it will be that shut downs are great, we've always loved great shut downs and this is the greatest shutdown. You can thank the great president Trump for this great shutdown that is doing great thing for American families. Followed by a 5% bump in the polls among Republican voters.

everlast75

duploelabs wrote: »

Because Flynn is an ex military commander, he has come to accept through his career that there are acceptable losses.
Trump is a petulant man-child who has had a life of everything handed to him whilst surrounded by yes men. His ego and humility (or lack of the latter) means that he never publucally accepts defeat (or anything going wrong for him), his tweet last Friday stating that the court documents completely exonerated him (when they clearly identified individual 1) demonstrate this

I get the point your making, but I don't mean to imply that Flynn resigned and Trump wouldn't.

What I mean is that there were serious concerns by Sally Yates about Flynn and him being compromised. IIRC, Flynn only went after Trump said he lied to the FBI. Perhaps the implication being that Trump would have left him there if he needed to.

But the fact remains that the then AG went to congress stating that there was a real danger there.

Why hasn't there been more action taken re Trump, considering it is without question that he is more compromised than Flynn.

It just seems bizarre to me that someone who obtained the office of President with the assistance of committed campaign finance violation, a foreign adversary and is patently compromised, even by the evidence available to the general public, by that adversary is allowed to continue making (literally) world changing decisions.

pixelburp

Regardless of Trump, how are Shutdowns seen by working Americans? Presumably the closure of every nationalised institution, from post-office to museums, is hated by both those who need the services & those employed by them? Seem like a nuclear option that transcends partisanship nobody can properly benefit from - unless they're simply a presumed part of daily life; economical brownouts so to speak.

jobbridge4life

theguzman wrote: »

I found it a hillarious interview as did many millions of Americans who watched it,

Weird, the millions of Americans I've spoken to since yesterday evening were shocked and appalled. We should have our milllions meet up and maybe they can get things sorted.

theguzman wrote: »

like one told me, President Trump is the best thing on TV, my salary is up, the stock market is up and crime is going down and Trumps bull in a china shop no holds barred approach is resonating well across America and it will take a truely remarkable character to topple him at the next Presidential election. I honestly thought he'd never go in the same room as Nanci Pelosi.

Quite, in fact another of my million remarked, 'my erectile dysnfunction has disappeared, the young blacks have learned how to pull up their slacks, the sun never stops shining (even at night!) and even the poor are racking in stacks'

Thanks Trump!

Quin_Dub

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

I suspect that the line will not be that Schumer bamboozled Trump into accepting responsibility for any shutdown, it will be that shut downs are great, we've always loved great shut downs and this is the greatest shutdown. You can thank the great president Trump for this great shutdown that is doing great thing for American families. Followed by a 5% bump in the polls among Republican voters.

I read an article earlier that put forward the argument that Trump "won" yesterday

The mainstream media will focus on the immediate seriousness of a shutdown and lament the lack of civility in politics. But I suspect many Americans will see that there was something refreshing about Trump’s public stance.

Politicians often promise to drive a tough bargain (when rallying their base before an election), only to engage in conciliatory rhetoric when face to face with an adversary. The civilized “norm,” in other words, is to be a fake. But here—face to face with his adversaries—Trump defended his decision regarding a wall.

I guess I see where that view is coming from , but only in terms of how a hard-core , Trump rally attendee type might view it..

Everybody else.. Not so much.

check_six

everlast75 wrote: »

It just seems bizarre to me that someone who obtained the office of President with the assistance of committed campaign finance violation, a foreign adversary and is patently compromised, even by the evidence available to the general public, by that adversary is allowed to continue making (literally) world changing decisions.

What I find even more peculiar is that if a president was kicked out the door due to all these type of shenanigans, their party would still hold the reins of power. Ultimately, there appears to be no penalty whatsoever for subverting a democratic election. You could put in a puppet as your president and even if all the dirt comes out in the wash, and the puppet is kicked out, your backup guys will take over, and you are still in charge. I think that the other democracies I am familiar with would at least be expected to hold another election at this point.
When the expected norms of behaviour go out the window, the US system does not seem to be able to cope at all.