Zappi charge points

davidod1

I would agree with Stimpson. Use the Eco++ Mode and set the charging times for that. I have had no issues with charging overnight on the night-rate with Eco++. It'll also use solar when there is sufficient power if you have that available.

If you are having trouble setting it up I'm sure we can give you some screen-shots of the settings that have worked.

OffalyMedic

davidod1 wrote: »

I would agree with Stimpson. Use the Eco++ Mode and set the charging times for that. I have had no issues with charging overnight on the night-rate with Eco++. It'll also use solar when there is sufficient power if you have that available.

If you are having trouble setting it up I'm sure we can give you some screen-shots of the settings that have worked.

Thanks, ill have a look at it tomorrow in daylight and if i cant figure it out ill let ye know

zg3409

iniall wrote: »

Is the hub compatible with gen 1 Zappi?

It is. The app is free and pretty basic. The hub will set you back 150 euro and there is at least 3 weeks delay before they will ship it to you. There is a lot of faffing updating hub and Zappi. The hub connects using a wire to your internet router and then wireless to Zappi. You need to have current monitoring clamp to measure house loads, connected to Zappi or via an Eddi in order to show loads. I am not sure it is worth the money and some of the updates have been buggy, if its working don't fix it!

stimpson

zg3409 wrote: »

It is. The app is free and pretty basic. The hub will set you back 150 euro and there is at least 3 weeks delay before they will ship it to you. There us a lit a f faffing updating hub and Zappi. The hub connects using a wire to your internet router and then wireless to Zappi. You need to have current monitoring clamp to measure house loads, connected to Zappi or via an Eddi in order to show loads. I am not sure it is worth the money and some of the updates gave been buggy, if its working don't fix it!

The hub is £85 on the website. Fairly sure it’s €99 here.

Mupchease

stimpson wrote: »

The hub is £85 on the website. Fairly sure it’s €99 here.

That’s not inc shipping. It comes in at 121 pounds.

stimpson

Mupchease wrote: »

That’s not inc shipping. It comes in at 121 pounds.

€107 delivered from electricautos.ie

Mupchease

stimpson wrote: »

€107 delivered from electricautos.ie

Cheers il look that site up now. Might have to get myself an early Christmas present.

stimpson

Mupchease wrote: »

Cheers il look that site up now. Might have to get myself an early Christmas present.

They are in Naas if it suits you to pick up. Great bunch of lads.

eddhorse

I had to get it delivered to my parcel motel to cut down on shipping cost.

Mickeroo

Quick question for anyone with a Zappi and solar panel set up.

I'm in the early stages of researching PV with a view to getting it installed in the next few months, have had my zappi a year or so. I only have one CT clamp attached (for detecting when the load gets too high). Does this clamp also detect the outgoing current once panels are in so it can divert to the car or do I need another clamp or a Harvi to do that?

Cheers!

stimpson

Mickeroo wrote: »

Quick question for anyone with a Zappi and solar panel set up.

I'm in the early stages of researching PV with a view to getting it installed in the next few months, have had my zappi a year or so. I only have one CT clamp attached (for detecting when the load gets too high). Does this clamp also detect the outgoing current once panels are in so it can divert to the car or do I need another clamp or a Harvi to do that?

Cheers!

You need an additional clamp. The harvi is only needed for wireless transmission of that signal if your Zappi is too far from the cable.

The Eddi is a diverter that will send excess solar power to your hot water tank. You may want one of these.

I’d be interested in your sums if you install one. I’m looking at the payback vs night rate electricity and to me it seems way too long at the moment. 10 grand buys a lot of electricity.

KCross

Mickeroo wrote: »

Quick question for anyone with a Zappi and solar panel set up.

I'm in the early stages of researching PV with a view to getting it installed in the next few months, have had my zappi a year or so. I only have one CT clamp attached (for detecting when the load gets too high). Does this clamp also detect the outgoing current once panels are in so it can divert to the car or do I need another clamp or a Harvi to do that?

Cheers!

As stimpson says, another clamp is required at the Solar PV side which will sense what energy the panels are generating and then the Zappi knows all it needs to know about energy in/out of the house and the panels and can then divert that energy to hot water or your car.

stimpson wrote: »

I’d be interested in your sums if you install one. I’m looking at the payback vs night rate electricity and to me it seems way too long at the moment. 10 grand buys a lot of electricity.

€10k? Why €10k?
A simple Solar PV system with no diverter and no battery will be <€4k after grant.

Mickeroo

Thanks guys. Harvi might be the easiest option so as running another wired CT to the charge point might be a pain in the arse.

I'm not sure what size of a system I'll end up with yet, would 3kwp at least (preferably with a battery) but I'm not sure if we have the roof space or not.

stimpson

KCross wrote: »

As stimpson says, another clamp is required at the Solar PV side which will sense what energy the panels are generating and then the Zappi knows all it needs to know about energy in/out of the house and the panels and can then divert that energy to hot water or your car.




€10k? Why €10k?
A simple Solar PV system with no diverter and no battery will be <€4k after grant.

I rang a few places the day the grants came out and they were all quoting high 4 figures for 7 panels and battery. Makes little sense to me without those. Also the Zappi won’t charge without 1.3kW solar available so undersizing the system could make it useless.

davidod1

I would agree with Stimpson on the economics of it.

I have a six-panel setup that will produce approximately 1.6 Kws with clear skies in the summer period. I leave my Zappi on eco++. If the panels generate over 1Kw then the Zappi will charge the car drawing the balance from grid, otherwise, it will wait and charge overnight benefitting from the night rate.

I am advised that it could cost me something over €3000 to fit an additional six panels that would then be capable of charging the car for much of the time. As the house doesn't draw that much during the day, except for the hot water top-up, then you start to make a case for batteries to store the surplus power. That's when the figures start to get out of hand altogether.

Much as I'd like to have 'free' power, I really don't think that in my case I could justify the cost of the installation. Mind you, there are only two of us in the house. You could probably make a good case for an 8/10 panel setup in a house where the day consumption would be greater than ours. I do think that night-rate electricity is essential for anyone charging a car though.

KCross

davidod1 wrote: »

I would agree with Stimpson on the economics of it.

I have a six-panel setup that will produce approximately 1.6 Kws with clear skies in the summer period. I leave my Zappi on eco++. If the panels generate over 1Kw then the Zappi will charge the car drawing the balance from grid, otherwise, it will wait and charge overnight benefitting from the night rate.

1.6kWp just isnt enough really. You need enough to cover your background load(400W) and then another 2-3kW on top of that to give you anything meaningful. I'd say 4kWp+ is min where you'd need to be at for charging an EV via Solar as it wont be generating 4kW all the time and you need 1.4kW to start a charge session.

davidod1 wrote: »

I am advised that it could cost me something over €3000 to fit an additional six panels...

Get more advice!
There are alot of installers out there giving ridiculous prices because they have the grant to suck off of. Its a case of getting someone who isnt ripping you off. They are out there just hard to find.

KCross

stimpson wrote: »

I rang a few places the day the grants came out and they were all quoting high 4 figures for 7 panels and battery. Makes little sense to me without those. Also the Zappi won’t charge without 1.3kW solar available so undersizing the system could make it useless.

Adding the battery makes it expensive. Why do you think it makes no sense without a battery?

A Feed-in-tariff is just around the corner by all accounts. Thats the biggest battery you could ever use and it will send money to you, not the other way around!

Leave the battery out and get quotes for 4kWp. You should be looking for quotes ~€4k after grant. Then utilise your Zappi as much as you can.

stimpson

KCross wrote: »

Get more advice!
There are alot of installers out there giving ridiculous prices because they have the grant to suck off of. Its a case of getting someone who isnt ripping you off. They are out there just hard to find.

This is the problem. The day I rang, one of the guys said he didn’t have a chance to look at the grants yet. When I asked him why that would make a difference he got defensive. When I asked him how much it would have cost yesterday he hung up on me. It kind of put me off. I’m still interested, but I would need to be able to see a clear payback in 7 years or less before I shell out that kind of money.

stimpson

KCross wrote: »

Adding the battery makes it expensive. Why do you think it makes no sense without a battery?

A Feed-in-tariff is just around the corner by all accounts. Thats the biggest battery you could ever use and it will send money to you, not the other way around!

Leave the battery out and get quotes for 4kWp. You should be looking for quotes ~€4k after grant. Then utilise your Zappi as much as you can.

The battery grant takes the edge off that. And charging it at night in the winter on night rate makes sense. I think it's the bit that would pay back the quickest.

FIT makes great sense if it's priced right, but I would bet dollars to donuts it will be a pittance.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

you need 1.4kW to start a charge session.

And be careful there too. That depends on the car. Ioniq for example can take just 860W as a minimum. But that is from the granny charger!

From an EVSE it can only take a minimum of about 4kW IIRC, must check that again soon now the spring is coming soon

So Indeed, even if you had 4kwp and the sun is out in full, you would still buy some electricity from the grid when charging Ioniq (from the EVSE). And I certainly don't feel like plugging in the granny cable any time there's a sunny day...

KCross

stimpson wrote: »

The battery grant takes the edge off that.

It doesnt really. The battery grant was reduced recently.

stimpson wrote: »

And charging it at night in the winter on night rate makes sense. I think it's the bit that would pay back the quickest.

That doesnt make much sense either. The payback is negligible as there are losses getting energy in/out of the battery.

The best route to payback is maximise self-consumption and your car is an excellent way to do that.... if that suits. And then to use FiT for your excess.

stimpson wrote: »

FIT makes great sense if it's priced right, but I would bet dollars to donuts it will be a pittance.

That is unknown. We need to wait and see on that. It could be small but whatever it is, its going to be money coming in, not out, so its positive.

Mickeroo

I'm nearly sure I've seen the Zappi send less than 4kw to the Ioniq when I've had other appliances running, I might need to investigate that.

I was hoping I could get away without the battery between diverting to car and hot water and the FiT on the way but i do like the idea of being able to charge the battery on nightrate in the winter.

Payback isn't really a major concern for me though, I'm more interested in microgeneration from an environmental point of view plus it's a cool new toy to play with :pac: (I don't want to spend over the odds either though of course)

KCross

unkel wrote: »

And be careful there too. That depends on the car. Ioniq for example can take just 860W as a minimum. But that is from the granny charger!

From an EVSE it can only take a minimum of about 4kW IIRC, must check that again soon now the spring is coming soon

So Indeed, even if you had 4kwp and the sun is out in full, you would still buy some electricity from the grid when charging Ioniq (from the EVSE). And I certainly don't feel like plugging in the granny cable any time there's a sunny day...

That must be specific to Ioniq then because the Leaf (and others) will go right down to the 1.4kW from the Zappi.

stimpson

KCross wrote: »

It doesnt really. The battery grant was reduced recently.


That doesnt make much sense either. The payback is negligible as there are losses getting energy in/out of the battery.

The best route to payback is maximise self-consumption and your car is an excellent way to do that.... if that suits.


That is unknown. We need to wait and see on that. It could be small but whatever it is, its going to be money coming in, not out, so its positive.

Battery losses are around 10% round trip though - not massive. My night rate is half my day rate, and I work from home so have above average daily usage. I often wonder what the sums on a night rate battery would look like stacked up against solar with and without battery.

My other concern is how the price and efficiency of solar drops over the next 10 years, and how that would effect the payback time.

KCross

stimpson wrote: »

Battery losses are around 10% round trip though - not massive. My night rate is half my day rate, and I work from home so have above average daily usage. I often wonder what the sums on a night rate battery would look like stacked up against solar with and without battery.

I think its more than 10%. The calcs for that were done on the renewable forum so dont have them to hand right now.

You also have to allow for the extra charge/discharge you are doing on the battery as that will reduce the batteries lifespan and you'd also have to be constantly watching the weather to decide whether you are going to charge on night rate or not. Thats messy. I know there is a product (Moixa) that auto does that for you but its rare and expensive.

I'm for keeping it simple!

stimpson wrote: »

My other concern is how the price and efficiency of solar drops over the next 10 years, and how that would effect the payback time.

Its like going for an EV. There is always a better one just around the corner... all the while you're still wasting money on diesel!

No doubt there will be improvements in Solar PV but are you going to wait 10 years for it?! They have already massively dropped in price.

I havent jumped at Solar PV myself yet... but I'm getting mighty close! Quotes coming in now that are starting to make sense on ROI.

unkel

Mickeroo wrote: »

I'm nearly sure I've seen the Zappi send less than 4kw to the Ioniq when I've had other appliances running, I might need to investigate that.

Yes, I'll check mine too. I have the figures handy for low / medium and high for the slow charger, but I'm not entirely sure for the EVSE

stimpson

KCross wrote: »

I think its more than 10%. The calcs for that were done on the renewable forum so dont have them to hand right now.

You also have to allow for the extra charge/discharge you are doing on the battery as that will reduce the batteries lifespan and you'd also have to be constantly watching the weather to decide whether you are going to charge on night rate or not. Thats messy. I know there is a product (Moixa) that auto does that for you but its rare and expensive.

I'm for keeping it simple!

Efficiency will depend on a lot of things including DC->AC conversion, but battery losses are ~10% for LiIon. There seems to be strong evidence that keeping a LiIon charged below 80% will greatly increase battery life (by an order of magnitude IIRC).

Its like going for an EV. There is always a better one just around the corner... all the while you're still wasting money on diesel!

No doubt there will be improvements in Solar PV but are you going to wait 10 years for it?! They have already massively dropped in price.

I havent jumped at Solar PV myself yet... but I'm getting mighty close! Quotes coming in now that are starting to make sense on ROI.

I agree it's just like going for an EV - I've done my sums and figure an Outlander can meet my needs with 80-90% EV drive and lets us downsize to a single car. Next car will likely be EV for sure, and I will probably revisit solar at that time, but as it stands I can't make the numbers stack up

_dof_

KCross wrote: »

As stimpson says, another clamp is required at the Solar PV side which will sense what energy the panels are generating and then the Zappi knows all it needs to know about energy in/out of the house and the panels and can then divert that energy to hot water or your car.

No additional clamp is required for the standard PV setup, the clamp on the live from the grid is all that is needed. The Zappi knows from that clamp that the surplus electricity is going out to the grid instead of coming in from the grid.

So, if you have the car plugged in and PV is generating a surplus, the Zappi will increase the current going to the car until it detects no more current being sent to the grid and it will constantly vary that depending on the surplus.

Note, the choice of eco or eco+ mode and some other settings will choose when that happens, but in any case, only the grid CT clamp is required.

You can add another clamp on the AC live from the solar PV inverter if you want to be able to display the current coming from the panels, but it's not necessary.

Also, if you have an AC coupled battery, you can add a clamp on the live going to that battery, to be able to display and control current to and from that battery but most PV setups will have a DC coupled batttery.

KCross

_dof_ wrote: »

You can add another clamp on the AC live from the solar PV inverter if you want to be able to display the current coming from the panels, but it's not necessary.

You're spot on, I hadnt noticed that that clamp was listed as optional.

I guess that optional clamp is useful for the app also to give you instant values that would allow you to make decision about turning things on/off but as you said not required for the car charging side of things... the Zappi will do the right thing without the additional clamp.

_dof_

KCross wrote: »

You're spot on, I hadnt noticed that that clamp was listed as optional.

I guess that optional clamp is useful for the app also to give you instant values that would allow you to make decision about turning things on/off but as you said not required for the car charging side of things... the Zappi will do the right thing without the additional clamp.

Yeah, it looks a little odd on the display of the Zappi or the myenergi app when the solar panels are generating a surplus, since it just shows the current going to the car or the grid, but coming from nowhere.

I was going to get the second clamp to put on the PV output, but Ill probably get an eddi and that comes with a clamp, so I'll put that clamp on the PV output