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Join Date:Posts: 22734
The LR is not a measure of unemployment.
It's worth stressing this alright. The Live Register and the Quarterly Labour Force Survey (which replaced the old Quarterly National Household Survey) are two seperate sets of statistics.
You can be classed as unemployed under the Labour force survey and not be on the Live Register. And you can be on the Live Register and not classed as unemployed under the Labour Force Survey.0 -
mariaalice wrote: »There not doing if for the good of their health, the supermarket is located in a (1) very wealthy area where teenagers do not have to work and (2) There are lots of opportunities for employment for older teens and college student. The person who came over to do the wine wasn't very happy either so fairly sure the supermarket is only doing it because they cant get someone over 18.
Not sure what you are driving at here. A shortage of labour is good for all workers as it should drive wages up as employers compete for labour. Course, that leads to inflation etc as employers have to offset their increased costs (or accept reduced profits etc).
It should lead to further internal EU migration as people from economically depressed parts of Europe or parts of Europe with lower wages seek to move here. (This leads to a separate argument of course about whether immigration is good/bad/etc).
I see it in my own industry, we are light years away from where we were 3 or 4 years ago. There are tangible opportunities now that just didn't exist a few years ago.
We are still very prone to external shocks of course, anyone doing well now should be saving for any downturn that may (or will inevitably) arise.0 -
mariaalice wrote: »engiweirdo wrote: »Labour force participation rate South East : 59%. Full employment? 2 umemployed adults in a house (a couple) but magically one is a qualified adult and disappears from statistics. Obfuscation and dishonesty everywhere. Joke of a country.
There is more or less full employment it is a fact, even with that some will still be unemployed you cat extrapolate from your own situation on the the whole of Ireland.
A nuclear scientist with a PhD in nuclear sincere living in rural Kerry is going to struggle to get a job in nuclear science locally, yet a qualified chef is going to have no trouble getting a job if they want one.
There are lots of individual factors effecting employment.
There is not and ignoring the deeply flawed measuring criteria never will be full employment in this country. Even the little bubble in the pale is in reality far further away from this magical 5% figure that is presented as full employment. A booming Dublin does not equate to full employment in Ireland. In fact Dublin would need to dip significantly below 5% to account for the forgotten regions like the South-East and border region which are threading water.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »There is not and ignoring the deeply flawed measuring criteria never will be full employment in this country. Even the little bubble in the pale is in reality far further away from this magical 5% figure that is presented as full employment. A booming Dublin does not equate to full employment in Ireland. In fact Dublin would need to dip significantly below 5% to account for the forgotten regions like the South-East and border region which are threading water.
The uncomfortable truth about all modern work is you every often have to move to where the work is. Dublin is where the work is. If you are unemployed outside Dublin, move to Dublin (or Cork, Limerick or Galway). It is the same everywhere in the modern world and unlikely to change.
Get very good at your job and you'll be allowed work from home at which point you can move to wherever you want in the globe (within reason).
If the South East wants to compete with those cities, Wexford, Waterford, Carlow and Kilkenny need to band together as a coherent entity and compete together against the others.
Likewise, Cork, Limerick, Ennis and Galway should be pushing hard for the motorway to Cork to be completed to open up the Atlantic corridor as a counterbalance to the east coast.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »engiweirdo wrote: »There is not and ignoring the deeply flawed measuring criteria never will be full employment in this country. Even the little bubble in the pale is in reality far further away from this magical 5% figure that is presented as full employment. A booming Dublin does not equate to full employment in Ireland. In fact Dublin would need to dip significantly below 5% to account for the forgotten regions like the South-East and border region which are threading water.
The uncomfortable truth about all modern work is you every often have to move to where the work is. Dublin is where the work is. If you are unemployed outside Dublin, move to Dublin (or Cork, Limerick or Galway). It is the same everywhere in the modern world and unlikely to change.
Get very good at your job and you'll be allowed work from home at which point you can move to wherever you want in the globe (within reason).
If the South East wants to compete with those cities, Wexford, Waterford, Carlow and Kilkenny need to band together as a coherent entity and compete together against the others.
Likewise, Cork, Limerick, Ennis and Galway should be pushing hard for the motorway to Cork to be completed to open up the Atlantic corridor as a counterbalance to the east coast.
Move to Dublin. Its that simple eh? Got a spare €5/6k you could lend me for deposit+rent+moving costs etc?
Back on topic, misleading statistics and figures massaged to make the standing administration look/feel better help nobody. Not Dubs, nor Waterfordians nor Cavan men. We are, and will always remain a very broken country while we trust blindly in blatant lies.0 -
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engiweirdo wrote: »Move to Dublin. Its that simple eh? Got a spare €5/6k you could lend me for deposit+rent+moving costs etc?
Back on topic, misleading statistics and figures massaged to make the standing administration look/feel better help nobody. Not Dubs, nor Waterfordians nor Cavan men. We are, and will always remain a very broken country while we trust blindly in blatant lies.
It is and it isn't. There are parts of Europe that industry has died in and will never return, or at least, not in its former guise. If you live in one of those places (and imo, the decline of the South East is one of those places) then your best option (work wise) is to leave if you can't find employment locally. It's unpleasant but what do you want, platitudes that tell you the old jobs are coming back?
As for the set-up costs elsewhere, find a job first and take it from there imo.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »
As for the set-up costs elsewhere, find a job first and take it from there imo.
Ah right. Sound. And in this wonderful Dublin place, there's loads of places to live right? I won't have to pay 60% of my salary to live there either no? I'll tell the kid tomorrow we're all going to this fabulous place. It'll be fine I'm sure.0 -
Landon Scrawny Fog wrote: »
Seen in a shop the other, x8 busy self-checkout tills, and one singular human asset for people 'scared of those machines' and like a bit of a 'chit-chat'.
.
They're watching for shoplifting0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »Ah right. Sound. And in this wonderful Dublin place, there's loads of places to live right? I won't have to pay 60% of my salary to live there either no? I'll tell the kid tomorrow we're all going to this fabulous place. It'll be fine I'm sure.
Better than being unemployed, but there are other places in Ireland with jobs, Cork, Galway, Limerick etc.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Better than being unemployed, but there are other places in Ireland with jobs, Cork, Galway, Limerick etc.
Aka every other city, and nobody sees any glaring issue with the odd one out. Actually financially it's better to be unemployed here than employed in Dublin at current housing costs. But everything's rosy in the garden. How long before that house of cards collapses?0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »The uncomfortable truth about all modern work is you every often have to move to where the work is. Dublin is where the work is. If you are unemployed outside Dublin, move to Dublin (or Cork, Limerick or Galway). It is the same everywhere in the modern world and unlikely to change.
Get very good at your job and you'll be allowed work from home at which point you can move to wherever you want in the globe (within reason).
If the South East wants to compete with those cities, Wexford, Waterford, Carlow and Kilkenny need to band together as a coherent entity and compete together against the others.
Likewise, Cork, Limerick, Ennis and Galway should be pushing hard for the motorway to Cork to be completed to open up the Atlantic corridor as a counterbalance to the east coast.
The population density and economy across the East coast (ncluding the North) outweights the rest of the country several times.
One game changer, would be hyperloop (still some time away), multiple pods doing 15mins from Dub, to Gal, Lim or Cork would solve many things.
Dub with it's density and costs is also the highest risk, should anything go pear shaped. The amount of foreign investment or tax registration by service (inc digital) companies is only beneficial so long as they don't jump ship.
The lack of native light-heavy industry (manufacturing) outside of pharma-agri might be a concern, as the non-tangible service industry can more or less hop on a plane overnight.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »Aka every other city, and nobody sees any glaring issue with the odd one out. Actually financially it's better to be unemployed here than employed in Dublin at current housing costs. But everything's rosy in the garden. How long before that house of cards collapses?
That's a choice you are allowed make, and fair play to you if that works for you but don't pretend it isn't a choice.
We have no idea when the next disaster will occur, except that it will inevitably occur. It could be Brexit or it could be 10 years from now. It is pointless to speculate but prudent to save against it.
As I said, the best option for the South East is for Wexford, Kilkenny, Carlow and Waterford to work together. Irish towns/cities spend too long fighting amongst themselves to co-ordinate themselves as an entity.
For example, if I said I had the power to give the south east a university and I had decided that Kilkenny was where it was going, Waterford would kick up a fuss, and Carlow would kick up a fuss, rather than saying, "well, this is too important to derail, it's better for the south east overall that the university is provided." Their individual interests would come ahead of what's best for the entire region. We see this all the time throughout the country.
The lack of a university is killing the south east, albeit slowly. UL has been a massive part of Limerick's regeneration employment wise.0 -
Landon Scrawny Fog wrote: »The population density and economy across the East coast (ncluding the North) outweights the rest of the country several times.
One game changer, would be hyperloop (still some time away), multiple pods doing 15mins from Dub, to Gal, Lim or Cork would solve many things.
Hyperloop is decades away, if it is even feasible. There's no point factoring it in.
True about the population density, even the Atlantic corridor would be a pale imitation of the east coast, but would hopefully develop over time.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Hyperloop is decades away, if it is even feasible. There's no point factoring it in.
True about the population density, even the Atlantic corridor would be a pale imitation of the east coast, but would hopefully develop over time.
Laying down fresh rail tracks would also take decades of groundwork, and planning issues followed with maintence crews, fencing, road intersections etc.
Underground would cost even more, with plenty of slow boring work.
The inital cost would be phenomenal, and there still remains proof of concept/use for any significant 'loop journeys.
In essence it's a bit like dropping 2m dia. sealed pipes (two can be carried on the back of a truck) on craned on top of supports pillars (90% off-ground). Likely also very little maintence to ever worry about with a sealed vacuum.0 -
Its not much of a choice tbh, and it's missing the point to label it as that simple. In order to take up employment in Dublin I would incur significant personal debt, destabilise my families housing situation and suffer a decrease in living standards. And the Irish attitude is take it or feck off.Deleted User wrote: »engiweirdo wrote: »Aka every other city, and nobody sees any glaring issue with the odd one out. Actually financially it's better to be unemployed here than employed in Dublin at current housing costs. But everything's rosy in the garden. How long before that house of cards collapses?
That's a choice you are allowed make, and fair play to you if that works for you but don't pretend it isn't a choice.
We have no idea when the next disaster will occur, except that it will inevitably occur. It could be Brexit or it could be 10 years from now. It is pointless to speculate but prudent to save against it.
As I said, the best option for the South East is for Wexford, Kilkenny, Carlow and Waterford to work together. Irish towns/cities spend too long fighting amongst themselves to co-ordinate themselves as an entity.
For example, if I said I had the power to give the south east a university and I had decided that Kilkenny was where it was going, Waterford would kick up a fuss, and Carlow would kick up a fuss, rather than saying, "well, this is too important to derail, it's better for the south east overall that the university is provided." Their individual interests would come ahead of what's best for the entire region. We see this all the time throughout the country.
The lack of a university is killing the south east, albeit slowly. UL has been a massive part of Limerick's regeneration employment wise.
For comparison I was speaking to numerous Dutch recruiters/companies and what they put on the table is : *Cover all travel costs involved in interview, relocation and moving. *Source suitable accommodation for candidate, *Set up bank accounts and tax number, *Enroll children in suitable local school, *Assist with finding work for partner, *Language lessons, *A bike and/or public transport subsidy
A Dublin company will offer a job, at the cheapest rate its possible to pay you, and that's it. They want everything without providing anything in return, in a disaster of a city that costs an absolute fortune.
Family situation has made us hold back from the Netherlands but they're firmly back on the table very soon if no work can be sourced here.
And Dublin will still be boasting about full employment while people are hidden by statistics and the rest are crippled paying ever increasing rent.0 -
Ignoring the given stats for a minute and going on my own experience in recruitment, it is becoming harder and harder to place on roles now due to a lack of candidates.
I've had to go back to actually advertising roles on the various jobs boards and still a high proportion are from applicants who are living overseas. I am currently sitting on 7 mid level roles (€40-€60k salaries) but candidates are so thin on the ground I know I won't fill all of them. The market is all over the place and a good chunk of people with no work right now simply don't want to work.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »Its not much of a choice tbh, and it's missing the point to label it as that simple. In order to take up employment in Dublin I would incur significant personal debt, destabilise my families housing situation and suffer a decrease in living standards. And the Irish attitude is take it or feck off.
For comparison I was speaking to numerous Dutch recruiters/companies and what they put on the table is : *Cover all travel costs involved in interview, relocation and moving. *Source suitable accommodation for candidate, *Set up bank accounts and tax number, *Enroll children in suitable local school, *Assist with finding work for partner, *Language lessons, *A bike and/or public transport subsidy
A Dublin company will offer a job, at the cheapest rate its possible to pay you, and that's it. They want everything without providing anything in return, in a disaster of a city that costs an absolute fortune.
Family situation has made us hold back from the Netherlands but they're firmly back on the table very soon if no work can be sourced here.
And Dublin will still be boasting about full employment while people are hidden by statistics and the rest are crippled paying ever increasing rent.
Leaving aside the rest of it, a labour shortage should see employers forced into offering better conditions. I know of several employers who already do, particularly in Dublin and Limerick.
The dutch aren't offering a better deal just to be sound, they feel you are worth the investment and obviously face a labour shortage locally too. Sorry to hear about your family situation, hopefully it is resolved and you are free to move to the Netherlands soon, should you choose to.0 -
Or dont want to uproot and move to an overpriced Irish city for the salary on offer.LollipopJimmy wrote: »Ignoring the given stats for a minute and going on my own experience in recruitment, it is becoming harder and harder to place on roles now due to a lack of candidates.
I've had to go back to actually advertising roles on the various jobs boards and still a high proportion are from applicants who are living overseas. I am currently sitting on 7 mid level roles (€40-€60k salaries) but candidates are so thin on the ground I know I won't fill all of them. The market is all over the place and a good chunk of people with no work right now simply don't want to work.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »So add roughly 20% on to the live register figures to account for job activation scams. Fudged numbers. I mean the CSO compiles the data in totality but somehow the live register figures are taken as gospel employment figures.
There are only about 50,000 people on those schemes, or about 2%0 -
About 20% extra to the 250,000 on the live register.engiweirdo wrote: »So add roughly 20% on to the live register figures to account for job activation scams. Fudged numbers. I mean the CSO compiles the data in totality but somehow the live register figures are taken as gospel employment figures.
There are only about 50,000 people on those schemes, or about 2%
So unemployment is closer to 7% then, and in excess of 10% in various non-Dublin areas, and this ignores those counted as non participants. Still a long long way from full employment.0 -
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engiweirdo wrote: »Move to Dublin. Its that simple eh? Got a spare €5/6k you could lend me for deposit+rent+moving costs etc?
Back on topic, misleading statistics and figures massaged to make the standing administration look/feel better help nobody. Not Dubs, nor Waterfordians nor Cavan men. We are, and will always remain a very broken country while we trust blindly in blatant lies.
This is how unemployment is measured in the western world. Labour force participation being low is to be expected in a country that values education so much.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »About 20% extra to the 250,000 on the live register.
So unemployment is closer to 7% then, and in excess of 10% in various non-Dublin areas, and this ignores those counted as non participants. Still a long long way from full employment.
What do you expect though, if people won't move to where jobs are?0 -
Landon Scrawny Fog wrote: »The population density and economy across the East coast (ncluding the North) outweights the rest of the country several times.
One game changer, would be hyperloop (still some time away), multiple pods doing 15mins from Dub, to Gal, Lim or Cork would solve many things.
Dub with it's density and costs is also the highest risk, should anything go pear shaped. The amount of foreign investment or tax registration by service (inc digital) companies is only beneficial so long as they don't jump ship.
The lack of native light-heavy industry (manufacturing) outside of pharma-agri might be a concern, as the non-tangible service industry can more or less hop on a plane overnight.
Hyperloop? would ya stop. The entire Island of Ireland could comfortably live inside the M50 if planning laws were changed.0 -
And plenty of stay at home parents, more often than not, not by choice but due to the absolute lack of provision of basic functional childcare services and the costs involved. Taking students out of the equation, there are a hell of a lot of people who in other countries would be productive workers, but here it's considered good enough to bury them behind statistics.engiweirdo wrote: »Move to Dublin. Its that simple eh? Got a spare €5/6k you could lend me for deposit+rent+moving costs etc?
Back on topic, misleading statistics and figures massaged to make the standing administration look/feel better help nobody. Not Dubs, nor Waterfordians nor Cavan men. We are, and will always remain a very broken country while we trust blindly in blatant lies.
This is how unemployment is measured in the western world. Labour force participation being low is to be expected in a country that values education so much.0 -
People CAN'T move to where the jobs are. How many of these jobs would allow someone to comfortably pay €2k a month just for rent?Deleted User wrote: »engiweirdo wrote: »About 20% extra to the 250,000 on the live register.
So unemployment is closer to 7% then, and in excess of 10% in various non-Dublin areas, and this ignores those counted as non participants. Still a long long way from full employment.
What do you expect though, if people won't move to where jobs are?
The jobs need to disperse more to where people are. Proper spatial deelopment, beyond lets see how much farther we can make West Dublin stretch.0 -
The Dutch measure employment/unemployment in EXACTLY the same way. They have slightly lower unemployment at about 4%. That deal the Dutch company is offering you, take it. It's not common in the Netherlands. You'd struggle to get that even in Dubai.engiweirdo wrote: »Its not much of a choice tbh, and it's missing the point to label it as that simple. In order to take up employment in Dublin I would incur significant personal debt, destabilise my families housing situation and suffer a decrease in living standards. And the Irish attitude is take it or feck off.
For comparison I was speaking to numerous Dutch recruiters/companies and what they put on the table is : *Cover all travel costs involved in interview, relocation and moving. *Source suitable accommodation for candidate, *Set up bank accounts and tax number, *Enroll children in suitable local school, *Assist with finding work for partner, *Language lessons, *A bike and/or public transport subsidy
A Dublin company will offer a job, at the cheapest rate its possible to pay you, and that's it. They want everything without providing anything in return, in a disaster of a city that costs an absolute fortune.
Family situation has made us hold back from the Netherlands but they're firmly back on the table very soon if no work can be sourced here.
And Dublin will still be boasting about full employment while people are hidden by statistics and the rest are crippled paying ever increasing rent.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »Or dont want to uproot and move to an overpriced Irish city for the salary on offer.
Amsterdam Rent is cheaper than Dublin, but I'd say that's about the only thing that's cheaper. Best of luck with it.0 -
The Dutch measure employment/unemployment in EXACTLY the same way. They have slightly lower unemployment at about 4%. That deal the Dutch company is offering you, take it. It's not common in the Netherlands. You'd struggle to get that even in Dubai.engiweirdo wrote: »Its not much of a choice tbh, and it's missing the point to label it as that simple. In order to take up employment in Dublin I would incur significant personal debt, destabilise my families housing situation and suffer a decrease in living standards. And the Irish attitude is take it or feck off.
For comparison I was speaking to numerous Dutch recruiters/companies and what they put on the table is : *Cover all travel costs involved in interview, relocation and moving. *Source suitable accommodation for candidate, *Set up bank accounts and tax number, *Enroll children in suitable local school, *Assist with finding work for partner, *Language lessons, *A bike and/or public transport subsidy
A Dublin company will offer a job, at the cheapest rate its possible to pay you, and that's it. They want everything without providing anything in return, in a disaster of a city that costs an absolute fortune.
Family situation has made us hold back from the Netherlands but they're firmly back on the table very soon if no work can be sourced here.
And Dublin will still be boasting about full employment while people are hidden by statistics and the rest are crippled paying ever increasing rent.
Already knocked it back (gently) but they do check up regularly just to make sure.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »People CAN'T move to where the jobs are. How many of these jobs would allow someone to comfortably pay €2k a month just for rent?
The jobs need to disperse more to where people are. Proper spatial deelopment, beyond lets see how much farther we can make West Dublin stretch.
I'm all for proper spatial development, but in the interim, it's be unemployed in one region or employed in an other. Same all over Europe and America. Jobs are increasingly concentrated in larger and larger cities.0 -
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More to the Netherlands than Amsterdam, they dont seem to have decided to abandon the lesser cities in quite the same manner.engiweirdo wrote: »Or dont want to uproot and move to an overpriced Irish city for the salary on offer.
Amsterdam Rent is cheaper than Dublin, but I'd say that's about the only thing that's cheaper. Best of luck with it.0
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