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Full employment

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  • 28-11-2018 1:36pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭


    We are there or thereabouts in full in employment: A small antidote to illustrate this went into a supermarket and in my purchases was a bottle of wine the cashier could no put it through as he told me he was only 15 so someone else came. Supermarkets are back to employing 15-year-olds.

    Not a fan of the doomsayers but are their risks to how strong the Irish economy is?.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Suits both parties, young ones can get practical work experience with a part-time job, and the employer can legally pay them less than someone slightly older.

    Also with this full-employment period, wonder what percent are in actual permanent roles.
    And and how many are in zero-hour, or fixed period term with 'possibility of renewal' contracts.

    Didn't MD Higgins warn earlier this year of the looming 'gig-economy'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,396 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Although unemployment has fallen, employment is below the EU average.

    We still have lots of inactive people.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7997105/3-25042017-BP-EN.pdf/377b4834-5a19-42f4-8a2d-36e133ed887d


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    It’s not really well distributed though. Places in the midlands definitely have unemployment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,396 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    70.3% of people aged between 20-64 are in employment in 2016.

    The EU average is 71.1%.

    DE = 78.7%

    DK = 77.4%.

    So we have tens of thousands of people inactive, who would be in employment if we had German or Danish employment rates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    The point is its more hassle for supermarkets to employ under 18 years old and will only do this when they have run out of over 18 years old to employ, I am fairly sure that young lad was only working a few hours in the evening.

    There is obviously a couple of different employment markets in Ireland.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The point is its more hassle for supermarkets to employ under 18 years old and will only do this when they have run out of over 18 years old to employ, I am fairly sure that young lad was only working a few hours in the evening.

    There is obviously a couple of different employment markets in Ireland.

    Correct, the employment market allows for wage price-points at certain age brackets. Often supermarkets will openly advertise part-time positions as 'may suit those in school/education'.

    Ah sure, it's only a matter of time before the Japanese supermarkets arrive.
    - Wherby it's totally void of any staff.

    You walk-in, facially recognised, followed by cameras, tracked by motion and pressure detection shelves, wireless beacons and even weighed on the way out when you wallet is wirelessly deducted by the correct amount.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Correct, the employment market allows for wage price-points at certain age brackets. Often supermarkets will openly advertise part-time positions as 'may suit those in school/education'.

    Ah sure, it's only a matter of time before the Japanese supermarkets arrive.
    - Wherby it's totally void of any staff.

    You walk-in, facially recognised, followed by cameras, tracked by motion and pressure detection shelves, wireless beacons and even weighed on the way out when you wallet is wirelessly deducted by the correct amount.

    But you are forgetting all the employment in IT, technology, developers, and engineers employed to maintain such a system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭never_mind


    It’s not really well distributed though. Places in the midlands definitely have unemployment.

    Was that not always the way?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Geuze wrote: »
    70.3% of people aged between 20-64 are in employment in 2016.

    The EU average is 71.1%.

    DE = 78.7%

    DK = 77.4%.

    So we have tens of thousands of people inactive, who would be in employment if we had German or Danish employment rates.

    we have a high proportion of people in education though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    mariaalice wrote: »
    But you are forgetting all the employment in IT, technology, developers, and engineers employed to maintain such a system.

    A sytem that may well be a self-learning, self-maintaining and of narrow artificial intelligence. Later, merging into wave 3, general or wide intelligent system?

    Seen in a shop the other, x8 busy self-checkout tills, and one singular human asset for people 'scared of those machines' and like a bit of a 'chit-chat'.

    To be fair there many have been another human asset floating about and trying to stack shevles whilst keeping an eye on the x8 machines.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    What percentage of the rest are on ce ,tus ,btwa scheme etc
    It's all well and good saying unemployment is low but in reality it's not as low as they tell us


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    What percentage of the rest are on ce ,tus ,btwa scheme etc
    It's all well and good saying unemployment is low but in reality it's not as low as they tell us

    The Live Register stats always include a breakdown of the number of people in Employment activation schemes (including Back to Work Allowance, Community Employment Scheme, JobBridge etc). It was 53,308 in September 2018, down from 57,633 a year earlier.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Wonder where these new 'gig-economy' folks register.

    The Uber driver, and Deliveroo rider who do a few hours whenever they get called,
    if they call back the wrong way, they're out on their ear/bike.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Wonder where these new 'gig-economy' folks register.

    The Uber driver, and Deliveroo rider who do a few hours whenever they get called,
    if they call back the wrong way, they're out on their ear/bike.

    They probably count as "Part-time, underemployed"

    111,500 in that category in Q3 2018.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Then again some may be considered 'self-employed' if they're void of normal in-house employer rights (think there was some debate about this).
    And if they provide their own equipment such as bike, car, laptop or other work equipment, would likely qualify as a 'service company/agency contractor'.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    mariaalice wrote: »
    We are there or thereabouts in full in employment: A small antidote to illustrate this went into a supermarket and in my purchases was a bottle of wine the cashier could no put it through as he told me he was only 15 so someone else came. Supermarkets are back to employing 15-year-olds.

    Not a fan of the doomsayers but are their risks to how strong the Irish economy is?.

    I’m a firm believer in encouraging the work ethic in students. Without it, all the education in the world is wasted. Fair play to that establishment for giving this lad a chance and for training him properly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    I’m a firm believer in encouraging the work ethic in students. Without it, all the education in the world is wasted. Fair play to that establishment for giving this lad a chance and for training him properly.

    There not doing if for the good of their health, the supermarket is located in a (1) very wealthy area where teenagers do not have to work and (2) There are lots of opportunities for employment for older teens and college student. The person who came over to do the wine wasn't very happy either so fairly sure the supermarket is only doing it because they cant get someone over 18.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    mariaalice wrote: »
    We are there or thereabouts in full in employment: A small antidote to illustrate this went into a supermarket and in my purchases was a bottle of wine the cashier could no put it through as he told me he was only 15 so someone else came. Supermarkets are back to employing 15-year-olds.

    Not a fan of the doomsayers but are their risks to how strong the Irish economy is?.
    I would have thought that teenagers not being able to get part-time jobs as sales assistants would be a bigger sign of a dysfuctional economy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    mariaalice wrote: »
    There not doing if for the good of their health, the supermarket is located in a (1) very wealthy area where teenagers do not have to work and (2) There are lots of opportunities for employment for older teens and college student. The person who came over to do the wine wasn't very happy either so fairly sure the supermarket is only doing it because they cant get someone over 18.
    Or they don't want to pay the rate that someone over 18 would expect.

    I've come accross similar situations in other countries with perfectly healthy economies - underage employee can't process sales of alcohol or tobacco; adult colleague has to be called. A supermarket can manage this by ensuring that at least one checkout is staffed by an adult, and posting a notice directing alcohol purchases to that checkout. If the supervisor in your case was annoyed that's largely because the supermarket didn't seem to be managing the issue as effeciently as it could be managed. Alternatively, you could take the view that the problem is puritanical laws which say not only that underage people can't buy alcohol, but that they can't even handle it in the course of their employment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭engiweirdo


    Poke yer heads out of the Pale maybe once every now and again. Nowhere near full employment in vast swathes of Ireland. The "fullness of time" as they say will show show this administration up for the lying scumbags they are. Fake figures everywhere.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,727 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    engiweirdo wrote: »
    Poke yer heads out of the Pale maybe once every now and again. Nowhere near full employment in vast swathes of Ireland. The "fullness of time" as they say will show show this administration up for the lying scumbags they are. Fake figures everywhere.

    Cut out the name calling please.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,417 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    The precarious nature of many working environments is well represented by statistics such as 'full employment', isn't it?


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Unemployment by region is also available from the Quarterly Labour Force Survey:

    State: 6.0%
    Northern and Western: 5.9%
    Border: 5.1%
    West: 6.6%
    Southern: 6.5%
    Mid-West: 7.2%
    South-East: 8.6%
    South-West: 4.9%
    Eastern and Midland: 5.6%
    Dublin: 5.3%
    Mid-East: 5.8%
    Midland: 7.1%


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    One thing I note is that there are Irish people working in the shops, which is nice. Celtic Tiger years saw most customer service staff being grumpy Russian yolkes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭engiweirdo


    Unemployment by region is also available from the Quarterly Labour Force Survey:

    State: 6.0%
    Northern and Western: 5.9%
    Border: 5.1%
    West: 6.6%
    Southern: 6.5%
    Mid-West: 7.2%
    South-East: 8.6%
    South-West: 4.9%
    Eastern and Midland: 5.6%
    Dublin: 5.3%
    Mid-East: 5.8%
    Midland: 7.1%
    Even those figures are fudged. The latest trick is send people on to Turas Nua. Like in my own case, the week after my last exam referred straight to Turas Nua. I have had 2 meetings lasting 10 mins each since then. The parlour trick here? While registered with Turas Nua I am not part of the live register even though still very much unemployed. Sneaky lies have been the overwhelming feature of FGs terms in office.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    As mentioned above
    The Live Register stats always include a breakdown of the number of people in Employment activation schemes (including Back to Work Allowance, Community Employment Scheme, JobBridge etc). It was 53,308 in September 2018, down from 57,633 a year earlier.

    Not on the Live Register, but figures are published.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭engiweirdo


    As mentioned above
    The Live Register stats always include a breakdown of the number of people in Employment activation schemes (including Back to Work Allowance, Community Employment Scheme, JobBridge etc). It was 53,308 in September 2018, down from 57,633 a year earlier.

    Not on the Live Register, but figures are published.
    So add roughly 20% on to the live register figures to account for job activation scams. Fudged numbers. I mean the CSO compiles the data in totality but somehow the live register figures are taken as gospel employment figures.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,396 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    engiweirdo wrote: »
    So add roughly 20% on to the live register figures to account for job activation scams. Fudged numbers. I mean the CSO compiles the data in totality but somehow the live register figures are taken as gospel employment figures.

    The LR is not a measure of unemployment.

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregisteroctober2018/

    The Live Register is not designed to measure unemployment. It includes part-time workers (those who work up to three days a week), seasonal and casual workers entitled to Jobseeker’s Benefit (JB) or Jobseeker’s Allowance (JA). Unemployment is measured by the Labour Force Survey.

    The Monthly Unemployment Rate (seasonally adjusted) is published in the Monthly Unemployment release.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭engiweirdo


    Labour force participation rate South East : 59%. Full employment? 2 umemployed adults in a house (a couple) but magically one is a qualified adult and disappears from statistics. Obfuscation and dishonesty everywhere. Joke of a country.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    engiweirdo wrote: »
    Labour force participation rate South East : 59%. Full employment? 2 umemployed adults in a house (a couple) but magically one is a qualified adult and disappears from statistics. Obfuscation and dishonesty everywhere. Joke of a country.

    There is more or less full employment it is a fact, even with that some will still be unemployed you cat extrapolate from your own situation on the the whole of Ireland.

    A nuclear scientist with a PhD in nuclear sincere living in rural Kerry is going to struggle to get a job in nuclear science locally, yet a qualified chef is going to have no trouble getting a job if they want one.

    There are lots of individual factors effecting employment.


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