No toilets in Iarnród Éireann stations: legal?

Went looking for a customer/public toilet in Booterstown DART station yesterday and they don't have public toilets. I haven't been in a train station in many, many years so this was a shock to me. Is this the norm now?

How is this legal, or indeed politically acceptable on state-owned infrastructure? Are all privately owned fuel stations legally required to have toilets? (I've never visited one which hadn't a customer/public toilet)

Del.Monte

Deleted User wrote: »

Went looking for a customer/public toilet in Booterstown DART station yesterday and they don't have public toilets. I haven't been in a train station in many, many years so this was a shock to me. Is this the norm now?

How is this legal, or indeed politically acceptable on state-owned infrastructure? Are all privately owned fuel stations legally required to have toilets? (I've never visited one which hadn't a customer/public toilet)

Perhaps if you used the train more frequently there would be a better level of facilities available. This is the typical reaction of people who never use the service but expect everything to be in place on the rare occasion that they do. In a quiet station like Booterstown the toilets would soon be a no-go area.

cython

It's pretty normal in the less major stations and where longer distance trains don't stop (so not really a need for transferring or waiting a prolonged period in the station), yes. Hell you're lucky if you can buy a ticket after 8pm in some stations on some commuter lines at this point!

That aside, however, I'm not really sure why you'd expect a toilet in them either to be honest. Should each Luas stop have similar facilities because they're state-owned (albeit privately operated) infrastructure?

gimli2112

most Dart built ones don't, the main ones do Pearse, Connolly and Heuston. Pretty sure most rural ones do too

Del.Monte

gimli2112 wrote: »

most Dart built ones don't, the main ones do Pearse, Connolly and Heuston. Pretty sure most rural ones do too

A lot of smaller rural stations have ones that are unlocked on request by the staff. What's going to happen when these stations become unmanned under CIE's latest cost-cutting plans is anyone's guess.

ELM327

Del.Monte wrote: »

A lot of smaller rural stations have ones that are unlocked on request by the staff. What's going to happen when these stations become unmanned under CIE's latest cost-cutting plans is anyone's guess.

They won't be there to unlock them. Pretty straightforward without any guesswork!

GerardKeating

Deleted User wrote: »

Went looking for a customer/public toilet in Booterstown DART station yesterday and they don't have public toilets. I haven't been in a train station in many, many years so this was a shock to me. Is this the norm now?

Few of the DART statiions have Toilets, and (shocker) the DART trains don't have them either. Some of the bigger stations do have toilets.

Deleted User wrote: »

How is this legal, or indeed politically acceptable on state-owned infrastructure?

Well, unless there is a specific legislation requiring them, then it is legal.

Deleted User wrote: »

Are all privately owned fuel stations legally required to have toilets? (I've never visited one which hadn't a customer/public toilet)

We must requent different fuel stations, in my experience those with "facilities" are a slight minority.

GerardKeating

ELM327 wrote: »

They won't be there to unlock them. Pretty straightforward without any guesswork!

Technology can solved all problem. They could have a Call button and staff could remotly open them,

Or just a coin lock, 2 euro a "go".

Chris_5339762

I'm not surprised the DART stations don't have toilets, but as a whole we in Ireland are dreadful at providing public toilets of any form. There are almost none.

1874

Del.Monte wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Went looking for a customer/public toilet in Booterstown DART station yesterday and they don't have public toilets. I haven't been in a train station in many, many years so this was a shock to me. Is this the norm now?

How is this legal, or indeed politically acceptable on state-owned infrastructure? Are all privately owned fuel stations legally required to have toilets? (I've never visited one which hadn't a customer/public toilet)

Perhaps if you used the train more frequently there would be a better level of facilities available. This is the typical reaction of people who never use the service but expect everything to be in place on the rare occasion that they do. In a quiet station like Booterstown the toilets would soon be a no-go area.

fairly poor attitude to take, sums up that taken by public service employees and management in the main for certain services regarding provision of basics, compare us to continental Europe and I'll bet there is a range of services and the basics, I'd call them essentials, are all there. How could anyone be even tempted to use the service if there are no toilet facilities in the event you need them, disgraceful, glad I don't and hopefully I will never have to rely on a service like that.

Squatter

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I'm not surprised the DART stations don't have toilets, but as a whole we in Ireland are dreadful at providing public toilets of any form. There are almost none.

Ever ask yourself why?

helimachoptor

Haven't used the dart in a long time as well, buy used to commute form dun laoghaire to Tara for a bit, toilets in DL were a junkies paradise. On another thread someone said they are closed now

Grab All Association

Jcdecaux type toilets could be installed in most stations. They pay for themselves.

magicbastarder

1874 wrote: »

How could anyone be even tempted to use the service if there are no toilet facilities in the event you need them

the OP was in booterstown DART station, not the back end of leitrim.
i am frequently tempted to use the bus, with similar commute times to the DART i suspect, and there are no toilet facilities on the bus. yet i cope. as do many others.

Anthracite

Del.Monte wrote: »

Perhaps if you used the train more frequently there would be a better level of facilities available. This is the typical reaction of people who never use the service but expect everything to be in place on the rare occasion that they do. In a quiet station like Booterstown the toilets would soon be a no-go area.

What a weird answer, but it sums up the CIE attitude perfectly, and demonstrates everything that is wrong with the mentality.

"Why should our service be any good if more people don't use it" - can you imagine if you stood up in a meeting in a real company and said that?

Infini

Most stations never had toilets to begin with and most don't because theyre unmanned and junkies and other vermin would destroy them very quickly. This is why you cant have nice things!

thomasj

If memory serves me correctly, the only requirements for restroom facilities apply to staff who would be working at that location for a considerable amount of time in the day.

Away from that , the only requirement for restroom facilities for passengers would be if there were dining facilities.

I'm sure I heard that somewhere before

Del.Monte

Del.Monte wrote: »

Perhaps if you used the train more frequently there would be a better level of facilities available. This is the typical reaction of people who never use the service but expect everything to be in place on the rare occasion that they do. In a quiet station like Booterstown the toilets would soon be a no-go area.

This is a really crap attitude. I don't use most of the privately owned restaurants in Ireland but I expect they'll have toilets, even special toilets for disabled people, as part of their remit for that business. Refusing to put toilets in train stations, where people are waiting around, is inexcusable. The DART, as with Iarnród Éireann generally, is a monopoly service so it should be forced by the same legislature which bestows that privileged status upon it to provide such basics. As said above, in continental Europe providing essentials like toilets is the norm. It would be a nice break if a politician in the Department of Transport could draw inspiration from France or the Netherlands rather than from the failed system created by Thatcher's Britain and force Iarnród Éireann to raise its service to the level of 'Basic'.

Grab All Association

Infini wrote: »

Most stations never had toilets to begin with and most don't because theyre unmanned and junkies and other vermin would destroy them very quickly. This is why you cant have nice things!

There’s hostile architecture type solutions , blue lights etc

Grab All Association

Grab All Association wrote: »

Jcdecaux type toilets could be installed in most stations. They pay for themselves.

Now, there's somebody thinking outside the box. A win-win situation, rather than the miserable "suck it up" attitude from some people.

AndrewJRenko

Grab All Association wrote: »

There’s hostile architecture type solutions , blue lights etc

Blue lights are ineffective. Addicts use Tippex to mark their veins, which show up beautifully under UV lights.

AndrewJRenko

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Now, there's somebody thinking outside the box. A win-win situation, rather than the miserable "suck it up" attitude from some people.

How many people would use a loo at Booterstown each day? Maybe 10 people, so €20 a day income? It wouldn't pay for soap and bog roll.

Oasis1974

Anyone who uses public toilets need their head examined sooner use the street be safer.

ELM327

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How many people would use a loo at Booterstown each day? Maybe 10 people, so €20 a day income? It wouldn't pay for soap and bog roll.

Don't know where you're buying your soap and bog roll but I suggest you should shop elsewhere

AndrewJRenko

ELM327 wrote: »

Don't know where you're buying your soap and bog roll but I suggest you should shop elsewhere

Have you tried keeping a public loo stocked in bog roll? You'd be amazed how much people will go through, or just take.

But regardless, even if I'm out by a factor of 10, you get my point. €20 a day isn't going to pay to build, maintain and staff a public loo.

Charlie-Bravo

I remember many moons ago needing to use 'facilities' after a few beers while waiting at Grand Canal Dock. I asked if there was a toilet and was advised that the station is actually a 'Halt' rather than a proper station.

So Booterstown is one of those halts.

Here's a wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_station#Halt

Del.Monte

Deleted User wrote: »

This is a really crap attitude. I don't use most of the privately owned restaurants in Ireland but I expect they'll have toilets, even special toilets for disabled people, as part of their remit for that business. Refusing to put toilets in train stations, where people are waiting around, is inexcusable. The DART, as with Iarnród Éireann generally, is a monopoly service so it should be forced by the same legislature which bestows that privileged status upon it to provide such basics. As said above, in continental Europe providing essentials like toilets is the norm. It would be a nice break if a politician in the Department of Transport could draw inspiration from France or the Netherlands rather than from the failed system created by Thatcher's Britain and force Iarnród Éireann to raise its service to the level of 'Basic'.

It's not my attitude but it's reality. I don't know how often I've read in the past of people whining about poor train services that they have been forced to use due to snow, fuel shortages, bus strikes etc.

Do you expect the West Clare Railway to still be retained in case you might like to use it one day? :rolleyes:

As for the suggestion of "Super Loos" - they have been proven to be wildly expensive to install and maintain and have been removed from many locations.

Oasis1974

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you tried keeping a public loo stocked in bog roll? You'd be amazed how much people will go through, or just take.

But regardless, even if I'm out by a factor of 10, you get my point. €20 a day isn't going to pay to build, maintain and staff a public loo.

Theirs a reason why toilet paper has 2 sides most people will only utilize a single one needs proper policing in use in my opinion.

RandomName2

Saw this thread. Saw the OP.

Something.. something.. UK's fault was what I was gong to say.

Then I saw

Deleted User wrote: »

failed system created by Thatcher's Britain

OP did not disappoint.

Stephen15

Why would it be a legal requirement? Stupid idea in my opinion toilets at smaller stations like Booterstown are completely unesscary and are a waste of money which could be put to better use improving the service elsewhere. The comes every 10 mins so it's not like your going to be waiting there for hours. Many smaller stations on the continent don't have toilets either.

1874

As someone said technology can be used to solve problems,
how about access to facilities based on a ticket number/purchase or receipt reference.

Dont know why its not considered that toilet facilities aren't a basic essential on a public transport network in a civilised modern society, so if someone is just caught short and needs to go? or if a person has a bowel disorder, what do they do they do, on the side of the platform/road?

I avoid using private businesses facilities if out because you need to purchase something to use them or get that response, so unless you're really stuck, but I thought it was a requirement for private businesses, yet it isnt for public services that could cater to a lot of people? I should be surprised but Im not. Essential services and infrastructure should be owned by the state but run privately to set standards, neither on their own seems to work.