European Parliament Elections 2019

charlie14

Blueshoe wrote: »

If people can afford 2k rent a month and pints every weekend surely they can give a few euro to save mother earth

A flat tax is not just going to effect those who are stuck paying 2k a month. Even those who are having to pay 2k a month because of the housing shambles are unlikely to welcome a further deduction from their wages by voting for someone who advocates it.
Especially where many that are paying high rents are complaining they are already paying too much tax

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

On a dublin/local level , removal of parking spaces, congestion charging, low emissions zones...

On an EU level committing Ireland to emissions levels or renewable program targets that require penalties and taxation back here to meet

Great, so all the good stuff that we need - good to hear.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Some result for Cuffe in Dublin 11% in opinion polls to 23% in the election... Fitzgerald who was expected to top the pol at 17% in opinion polls drops to 14%

This issue seems to be getting very little coverage, as to how way off the recent polls were.

Blueshoe wrote: »

FG and the Greens.

Well done everyone. We just kicked the misery up a gear for many.

Perhaps we need a bit of misery to ensure that we have a planet to hand over to our children and grandchildren.

Bambi wrote: »

Public transport has never (and will never) ease anyone frustrations in this country. The car is king for a reason.

The main reason being we have let it be so. Time for change.

Tell me how wrote: »

It's definitely not something which is going to happen overnight. And it is going to be a challenge as many will tell rural dwellers that the solution to the problem is that they have to move to towns or cities (I am against this as a hard and fast rule as rural Ireland needs people living in it in order to maintain it and give it life).

But, the car should only be a 'no other option' solution. Encouragement for car pooling or park and ride facilities on the outskirts of cities could still help in this space. We often see the car as a necessity because we don't even stop to think of alternatives.

We also need to tell rural dwellers that their ribbon development creates this car-bound culture and kills off rural towns and villages.

Hurrache wrote: »

This is the thing. The carrot needs to come before the stick.

Good park and ride facilities with direct non stop transport into the city could even have people drive away from the city to use them.

There some people who need the stick. They'll need to be dragged out of their cars with a crowbar.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451

VinLieger wrote: »

What right wing media?

Newstalk, Bert and Ernie on Virgin Media every night, Irish Daily Mail, much of the Sunday Times and Sunday Business Post coverage.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Pat "the cope" Gallagher isn't happy it seems.

Can't Cope....

blanch152 wrote: »

Carbon taxes are the future.

There is a substantial number of voters who will vote for those revenue-raising measures.

The principle is that they are revenue neutral - they bring in money to spend on other measures to reduce carbon consumption.

stefanovich wrote: »

A lot of people who are working on low wage pay no tax or receive more from the government than they pay.

Really? Do they get some kind of special exemption on VAT when they do their shopping? And on excise duties when they go for a pint?

Blueshoe

charlie14 wrote: »

A flat tax is not just going to effect those who are stuck paying 2k a month. Even those who are having to pay 2k a month because of the housing shambles are unlikely to welcome a further deduction from their wages by voting for someone who advocates it.
Especially where many that are paying high rents are complaining they are already paying too much tax

What do you propose? In a nutshell

Eric Cartman

You cant win with this country

FG wants to spend money building a broadband network to decentralise business and everyone gives out.

People are more reliant on cars than ever because they have to go further afield to find affordable housing , now people have voted for the party that wants to squeeze those people to death with taxation and charges to try force them onto an imaginary bus.

If people really wanted to tackle climate change then we’d be building a nuclear power station , building the broadband network and putting a levy on imported meat and produce that can be produced locally to lower food miles.

Instead we just want everyone to live in a tiny flat in the city, get the luas everywhere, decimate rural ireland and live off a diet of imported veg.

The green party policies are for dublin city dwelling young people and the upper middle class who have ideals but no knowledge of what works. They pat themselves on the back for getting rid of plastic straws but have not a single care for the impact these policies have outside the M50 and wont dare condemn china, india and african countries who are the single biggest source of pollution worldwide.

At a time when the people who actually work in Ireland are being taxed to oblivion, how anyone could vote for a party that advocates tax increases in any department is beyond me.

Blueshoe

Eric Cartman wrote: »

You cant win with this country

FG wants to spend money building a broadband network to decentralise business and everyone gives out.

People are more reliant on cars than ever because they have to go further afield to find affordable housing , now people have voted for the party that wants to squeeze those people to death with taxation and charges to try force them onto an imaginary bus.

If people really wanted to tackle climate change then we’d be building a nuclear power station , building the broadband network and putting a levy on imported meat and produce that can be produced locally to lower food miles.

Instead we just want everyone to live in a tiny flat in the city, get the luas everywhere, decimate rural ireland and live off a diet of imported veg.

The green party policies are for dublin city dwelling young people and the upper middle class who have ideals but no knowledge of what works. They pat themselves on the back for getting rid of plastic straws but have not a single care for the impact these policies have outside the M50 and wont dare condemn china, india and african countries who are the single biggest source of pollution worldwide.

At a time when the people who actually work in Ireland are being taxed to oblivion, how anyone could vote for a party that advocates tax increases in any department is beyond me.

I would vote for you. I think you nailed it. When the taxation begins alongside the resumption of water charges AND their rents continue to rise we will see then if the green wave continues.

Once people feel it in their pockets the penny tends to drop.

Trimm Trabb

Ahmed Square Tribune wrote: »

More than 1/3 of our work force (~1+ mil people) do not pay any income tax.

While the top 7% income earners pay ~55% of all income tax. Is that fair?

Yes

Quin_Dub

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Yeah, I know a few idiots like you

Hope you never have grandchildren

flexcon wrote: »

:pac::pac: pleb :D

amcalester wrote: »

##Mod Note##

Cut this out.

Way below acceptable standards

Thanks

mugsymugsy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

You cant win with this country

FG wants to spend money building a broadband network to decentralise business and everyone gives out.

People are more reliant on cars than ever because they have to go further afield to find affordable housing , now people have voted for the party that wants to squeeze those people to death with taxation and charges to try force them onto an imaginary bus.

If people really wanted to tackle climate change then we’d be building a nuclear power station , building the broadband network and putting a levy on imported meat and produce that can be produced locally to lower food miles.

Instead we just want everyone to live in a tiny flat in the city, get the luas everywhere, decimate rural ireland and live off a diet of imported veg.

The green party policies are for dublin city dwelling young people and the upper middle class who have ideals but no knowledge of what works. They pat themselves on the back for getting rid of plastic straws but have not a single care for the impact these policies have outside the M50 and wont dare condemn china, india and african countries who are the single biggest source of pollution worldwide.

At a time when the people who actually work in Ireland are being taxed to oblivion, how anyone could vote for a party that advocates tax increases in any department is beyond me.

The bit on the broadband is how it's handled and now the public are going to pay a high %, how the infrastructure after is going to be owned by a private company. People want it implemented it's just how it is being executed is the problem.

These euro and local elections with people voting for Greens / social Dems is because a lot of people are fed up with FF/FG and won't go to SF / LAB.

In my local elections it was only FF/FG/SF or Aontu - if greens or SOC Dems or a decent independent was available I would have voted for one of them.

stefanovich

Trimm Trabb wrote: »

Yes

So you are in favour of businesses under paying staff and the balance being made up with our taxes?

LuckyLloyd

The suggestion that working people are “being taxed into oblivion” in this country is profoundly absurd.

stefanovich

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The suggestion that working people are “being taxed into oblivion” in this country is profoundly absurd.

If I get an extra 1000 from my employer the state gets 550 and I get 450. Fair?

LuckyLloyd

stefanovich wrote: »

If I get an extra 1000 from my employer the state gets 550 and I get 450. Fair?

Yes, it’s fair. It’s the bedrock of a fair and equal society.

stefanovich

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes, it’s fair. It’s the bedrock of a fair and equal society.

Equality of outcome or equality of opportunity?

JPCN1

stefanovich wrote: »

If I get an extra 1000 from my employer the state gets 550 and I get 450. Fair?

If we had decent public services perhaps. We don't, not by a long shot, so no not fair.

robman60

JPCN1 wrote: »

If we had decent public services perhaps. We don't, not by a long shot, so no not fair.

Lol this exactly. In Ireland, you earn a decent amount and you'll be taxed quite heavily. Not completely wrong in principle, but what do you get for it?

-Still have to pay for kids' university even with imaginary 'free fees'.
-Private health insurance unless you want to die on a waiting list
-Rubbish or non-existent public transport infrastructure.

I'm not actually against university fees or private healthcare, but if I'm going to take home €59k from €100k from the party of the man or woman who 'gets up early', I'd expect to have something to show for it.

And the worst thing is every other party bar maybe FF would have you with even less than that, and less to show for it. Let's keep the recovery going :pac::pac:

robman60

robman60 wrote: »

Lol this exactly. In Ireland, you earn a decent amount and you'll be taxed quite heavily. Not completely wrong in principle, but what do you get for it?

-Still have to pay for kids' university even with imaginary 'free fees'.
-Private health insurance unless you want to die on a waiting list
-Rubbish or non-existent public transport infrastructure.

I'm not actually against university fees or private healthcare, but if I'm going to take home €59k from €100k from the party of the man or woman who 'gets up early', I'd expect to have something to show for it.

And the worst thing is every other party bar maybe FF would have you with even less than that, and less to show for it. Let's keep the recovery going :pac::pac:

you dont pay for university. not even close.

health care needs work but most urgent cases are seen as quickly public as private. waiting lists for other items and general state of emergency wards are a shambles but thats not much to do with your argument i would think

public transport exists, obviously it varies with where you live but its a great and varied option for eg most dubs imo

all for moaning that things arent perfect but as always the insistence that everything is terrible is a ridiculous position and allied to zero constructive ideas its very easy to disregard

AndrewJRenko

robman60 wrote: »

Lol this exactly. In Ireland, you earn a decent amount and you'll be taxed quite heavily. Not completely wrong in principle, but what do you get for it?

-Still have to pay for kids' university even with imaginary 'free fees'.
-Private health insurance unless you want to die on a waiting list
-Rubbish or non-existent public transport infrastructure.

I'm not actually against university fees or private healthcare, but if I'm going to take home €59k from €100k from the party of the man or woman who 'gets up early', I'd expect to have something to show for it.

And the worst thing is every other party bar maybe FF would have you with even less than that, and less to show for it. Let's keep the recovery going :pac::pac:

Your gross is about 10k shy in that calculation. Sole earner on 100k with two kids and 5k going into pension will take home over 70k.

robman60

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Your gross is about 10k shy in that calculation. Sole earner on 100k with two kids and 5k going into pension will take home over 70k.

Don't know where this is from but the low tax band cuts off well before €44,300

Plumbthedepths

robman60 wrote:

Don't know where this is from but the low tax band cuts off well before €44,300

The 44,300 is for a married couple/ civil partnership. The band for a single person @ 20 per cent goes up to 35,300. Both bands ridiculously low before you hit the 40 per cent tax rate imo.

JP Liz V1

Who from SF lost out?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

How and why do you believe that is fair?

Are you one of the 1 million, or one of the 7% btw?

Trimm Trabb wrote: »

Yes

charlie14

Blueshoe wrote: »

What do you propose? In a nutshell

I`m not proposing anything in a nutshell for the simple reason I have been around long enough to know there is no such thing as nutshell answers.
Something some here, as well as the Greens, need to realise proposing flat rate taxes or carbon taxes, especially to an electorate who will be very averse to any raising of taxes.

In fact the last implement of Green policy in Ireland I recall was, in a nutshell, replacing petrol driven engines with diesel. I mean seriously, did anyone who came up with that ever actually see diesel and petrol alight!



Do not get me wrong, I am all for looking after the planet, but for me to support that it is going to have to be on realistic levels taking into account manyy factor such as realistic proposals in areas like energy, economic and social considerations etc relative to country and population and not this universal Animal Farm like mantra of four legs good two legs bad.

stefanovich

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Your gross is about 10k shy in that calculation. Sole earner on 100k with two kids and 5k going into pension will take home over 70k.

What about PRSI and USC ?

Blueshoe

Trimm Trabb wrote: »

Yes

What's fair about that?
Surely if they pay no tax there should be some kind of difference in what they get back.

As the saying goes you get out what you put in

swampgas

This cartoon captures a big part of the problem: many people like the idea of change, but don't want it to impact on their lives in any way. Nor are they prepared to put any effort into political activity to get the change they want. Worse, IMO, are people who just don't want to pay any tax, or won't consider that paying additional taxes may be the right thing for the country. Nobody particularly likes paying taxes, but it's a bit like going to the dentist regularly - better in the long run if you do.

I'm not politically active myself, but I keep an interest in politics and try to vote in the best way possible. I also understand that paying tax is how we manage to have a decent standard of living. Neither do I expect public services to be perfect and 100% efficient. We need to be realistic in terms of what's possible when most things are done by ordinary people with ordinary strengths and weaknesses.

If you're not prepared to lead change, or support change, or pay for change, stop whinging about it when it doesn't work out the way you want.

AndrewJRenko

Ahmed Square Tribune wrote: »

More than 1/3 of our work force (~1+ mil people) do not pay any income tax.

While the top 7% income earners pay ~55% of all income tax. Is that fair?

Why don't you rerun the stats to look at ALL taxes, not just income tax?

robman60 wrote: »

Don't know where this is from but the low tax band cuts off well before €44,300

Check out the URL in the screenshot.

stefanovich wrote: »

What about PRSI and USC ?

I could only screenshot one page at a time!

Yurt2

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The 44,300 is for a married couple/ civil partnership. The band for a single person @ 20 per cent goes up to 35,300. Both bands ridiculously low before you hit the 40 per cent tax rate imo.

I think there is a strong case to be made for a third income tax band between the higher and lower to take some pressure off middle income earners.

That or a properly calibrated land valuation tax and a reduction in income tax.

Calina

The arguments about Irish taxation policy is broadly irrelevant to this discussion as taxation policy is a national competence, not an EU one.

Eric Cartman

Calina wrote: »

The arguments about Irish taxation policy is broadly irrelevant to this discussion as taxation policy is a national competence, not an EU one.

I think the greens and all the other enviro-fascists will definitely try and institute policies and measures from brussels that will force us all to pay more in taxation on the ground here.

Zubeneschamali

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think the greens and all the other enviro-fascists will definitely try and institute policies and measures from brussels

They might try if they were particularly thick, but it cannot be done since taxation policy is not an EU competence, just as Calina said.