Extension of Abortion Services To Northern Ireland

SafeSurfer

Minister for Health Simon Harris wants to extend free abortion services provided in the Republic of Ireland to those living in the north.
At a time of trolley crisis, record waiting lists and pressure throughout the health system is this an altruistic gesture to residents of another jurisdiction or cynical political maneuvering?

RobbieTheRobber

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Minister for Health Simon Harris wants to extend free abortion services provided in the Republic of Ireland to those living in the north.
At a time of trolley crisis, record waiting lists and pressure throughout the health system is this an altruistic gesture to residents of another jurisdiction or cynical political maneuvering?

A majority of those living in the north are or are entitled to become Irish citizens. Should we ignore the needs of our citizens?

gctest50

For decades Irish women had to travel for healthcare

So, fair is fair


( i wonder how long before "it's not healthcare" bots boot up )

biko

One step closer to a untied Ireland!

Harry Palmr

I think it's perfectly fair and frankly not going to put much extra load on the system as abortion up to 9 weeks will take place in GP practices not hospitals as I understand it

Ronaldinho

I don't get why the procedure is to be made free for all. Why not limited to medical card holders, for free?

Humphrey BoaGart

gctest50 wrote: »

For decades Irish women had to travel for healthcare

So, fair is fair


( i wonder how long before "it's not healthcare" bots boot up )

Irish women had to pay for it when they went to England though?

SafeSurfer

gctest50 wrote: »

For decades Irish women had to travel for healthcare

So, fair is fair


( i wonder how long before "it's not healthcare" bots boot up )

Irish women had to pay for abortion services in the UK. The proposal here is to offer them for free. Will these apply only to those who hold an Irish passport or also to residents of Northern Ireland who hold only a British passport?

Amirani

I'm not sure I agree with the idea of offering free non-reciprocal healthcare to residents of other jurisdictions. Residents of Northern Ireland do not contribute to the exchequer funds that will pay for this. They should be allowed to avail of abortions here, but not for free I think.

SafeSurfer

biko wrote: »

One step closer to a untied Ireland!

“Cherish all the Children of the Nation Equally”

Fulfilling the ideals of the founding fathers.

gctest50

Humphrey BoaGart wrote: »

Irish women had to pay for it when they went to England though?

That's England

Times have moved on

We're in Ireland

SafeSurfer

Is provision of free female only healthcare to Northern Ireland residents discriminatory?
Should northern Irish men suffering from prostate cancer or erectile disfunction receive free health care in the republic?
What about dental care, eye care? Are all these not medical issues also?

suicide_circus

The more abortions the better

ohnonotgmail

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is provision of free female only healthcare to Northern Ireland residents discriminatory?
Should northern Irish men suffering from prostate cancer or erectile disfunction receive free health care in the republic?
What about dental care, eye care? Are all these not medical issues also?

they can get all that in northern ireland. women in northern ireland cannot get abortions.

Harry Palmr

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is provision of free female only healthcare to Northern Ireland residents discriminatory?
Should northern Irish men suffering from prostate cancer or erectile disfunction receive free health care in the republic?
What about dental care, eye care? Are all these not medical issues also?

I think you'll discover that men with cancer can get treatment for that in Northern Ireland.

What do you think this is all about?

SafeSurfer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they can get all that in northern ireland. women in northern ireland cannot get abortions.

Yes they can. They can avail of free abortion under the NHS.

ohnonotgmail

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yes they can. They can avail of free abortion under the NHS.

not in northern ireland they cant.

SafeSurfer

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I think you'll discover that men with cancer can get treatment for that in Northern Ireland.

What do you think this is all about?

It’s about a political stunt to extent the provision of only one type of health care.

Do you believe once abortion is legalized in Northern Ireland, it’s residents should no longer be provided with free abortion services in the republic?

SafeSurfer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not in northern ireland they cant.

So either way they have to travel. Either to where their taxes pay for the free service or where our taxes pay for the free service.

Would the Irish government not be ether off lobbying for the provision of abortion services in Northern Ireland?

Neyite

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yes they can. They can avail of free abortion under the NHS.

If they travel to Great Britain they do. Abortion is banned in NI.

ohnonotgmail

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So either way they have to travel. Either to where their taxes pay for the free service or where our taxes pay for the free service.

Would the Irish government not be ether off lobbying for the provision of abortion services in Northern Ireland?

why cant they do both?

Amirani

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they can get all that in northern ireland. women in northern ireland cannot get abortions.

Should any medical procedures available in Ireland that aren't available in Northern Ireland be offered for free to people living in Northern Ireland and paid for fully by Irish taxpayers?

ohnonotgmail

Amirani wrote: »

Should any medical procedures available in Ireland that aren't available in Northern Ireland be offered for free to people living in Northern Ireland and paid for fully by Irish taxpayers?

If the procedure is not carried out in northern ireland for moral reasons then i would say yes.

gctest50

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It’s about a political stunt to extent the provision of only one type of health care......

This thread is like an Anti-Choice stunt

As usual haven't a clue :

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they can get all that in northern ireland.
women in northern ireland cannot get abortions.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yes they can.

They can avail of free abortion under the NHS.

Neyite

Neyite wrote: »

If they travel to Great Britain they do. Abortion is banned in NI.

No they can’t, unless they are resident.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-27325363

Harry Palmr

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It’s about a political stunt to extent the provision of only one type of health care.

Do you believe once abortion is legalized in Northern Ireland, it’s residents should no longer be provided with free abortion services in the republic?

Well if that situayyyshun should ever come about I'd look for a reciprocal arrangement so if women find it's socially easier to go further away to have an abortion they can or indeed if it turns out the nearest service is in Northern Ireland for women south of the border (I'd not be shocked if there is a paucity of willing GP's in the border counties area) they can go north.

SafeSurfer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why cant they do both?

Because the impetus for providing free, safe and legal abortion to residents in the north is undermined by the provision of this service in the south.

It is exactly the same arguments used by the repeal the 8th movement.

Women from Northern Ireland will still have to travel to a different jurisdiction to access medical care.

The only difference is that it is being used to score political points by a cynical, exploitative minister for health.

Ronaldinho

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is provision of free female only healthcare to Northern Ireland residents discriminatory?
Should northern Irish men suffering from prostate cancer or erectile disfunction receive free health care in the republic?

It's hardly 'female only', barring an immaculate conception.

ohnonotgmail

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Because the impetus for providing free, safe and legal abortion to residents in the north is undermined by the provision of this service in the south.

Do you think the majority party in the north give a monkeys what we in the south think?

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It is exactly the same arguments used by the repeal the 8th movement.

Women from Northern Ireland will still have to travel to a different jurisdiction to access medical care.

The only difference is that it is being used to score political points by a cynical, exploitative minister for health.

If they have to travel to the UK they have to pay. It is not provided free of charge.

SafeSurfer

gctest50 wrote: »

This thread is like an Anti-Choice stunt

As usual haven't a clue :

Women in Northern Ireland can get abortions.

This is correct.


Women cannot get abortions in Northern Ireland.

This is also correct.

If you have any further difficulty in understanding the arguments feel free to seek help.

gctest50

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Because the impetus for providing free, safe and legal abortion to residents in the north is undermined by the provision of this service in the south.

It is exactly the same arguments used by the repeal the 8th movement.

Women from Northern Ireland will still have to travel to a different jurisdiction to access medical care.

The only difference is that it is being used to score political points by a cynical, exploitative minister for health.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It is exactly the same arguments used by the repeal the 8th movement.

And trying to slip in bull$hit and or lies and hoping no-one notices is exactly the same as
tactics in arguments used by the Anti-Choice organisation

-self same as we all saw in the lead-up to the "8th Referendum"

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they can get all that in northern ireland.
women in northern ireland cannot get abortions.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yes they can.

They can avail of free abortion under the NHS.

SafeSurfer

gctest50 wrote: »

And trying to slip in bull$hit and or lies and hoping no-one notices is exactly the same as
tactics in arguments used by the Anti-Choice organisation

-self same as we all saw in the lead-up to the "8th Referendum"

You miss the point entirely.

Northern Irish women, seeking an abortion will still have to travel, just as southern Irish women have to travel until the provision of abortion services here.

ohnonotgmail

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You miss the point entirely.

Northern Irish women, seeking an abortion will still have to travel, just as southern Irish women have to travel until the provision of abortion services here.

and afterwards women from northern ireland will unfortunately still have to travel but not as far as before and wont have to pay for the service when they get there. Its called progress. Not as much progress as i would like but progress nonetheless.

kneemos

It's a nice gesture.

Wouldn't do much for relations with the DUP,but that relationship has been on the rocks now for a while.

Harry Palmr

How much is the coach from say Belfast to Dublin? a tenner?

ohnonotgmail

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How much is the coach from say Belfast to Dublin? a tenner?

about a tenner each way. though they wouldn't have to travel to dublin.

Harry Palmr

Indeed but I doubt it's much less to Dundalk or Drogheda and the shopping is much better.

SafeSurfer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and afterwards women from northern ireland will unfortunately still have to travel but not as far as before and wont have to pay for the service when they get there. Its called progress. Not as much progress as i would like but progress nonetheless.

So progress is measured not on the legality of health care where you live but on the distance you have to travel to access that healthcare?
Isn’t that extraordinary?

Grayson

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You miss the point entirely.

Northern Irish women, seeking an abortion will still have to travel, just as southern Irish women have to travel until the provision of abortion services here.

They'll hop on a bus, get a prescription, fill the prescription and then go home. It's not the same as making them travel to Britain by ferry/plane.

Also, in the opening post there was mention of the trolley crises. This is a GP led scheme. The vast majority of terminations will not be surgical and will not contribute to the trolley crises.

kneemos

It'd be worth it for the irony alone.

SafeSurfer

Grayson wrote: »

They'll hop on a bus, get a prescription, fill the prescription and then go home. It's not the same as making them travel to Britain by ferry/plane.

Also, in the opening post there was mention of the trolley crises. This is a GP led scheme. The vast majority of terminations will not be surgical and will not contribute to the trolley crises.

The trolley crisis is in part a funding crisis. Wards remain closed due to budgetary constraints. The free abortion service delivered by GPs is expected to cost €450 per termination. This will be funded from the health budget. To expand this scheme to non residents and indeed non citizens will clearly mean less money being available from the overall health budget for other items.

Will maternity services be offered free to residents of Northern Ireland? No.
Will abortion services be offered for free to citizens of Malta who cannot access abortion services? No. But other, equally non Irish citizens will be offered this service for free.
My belief is this is entirely due to the political ambitions of Simon Harris.

Pretzeluck

suicide_circus wrote: »

The more abortions the better

Agreed, world is overpopulated to the extreme.

ohnonotgmail

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So progress is measured not on the legality of health care where you live but on the distance you have to travel to access that healthcare?
Isn’t that extraordinary?

progress is measured by the removal of barriers to healthcare. We can do nothing about the legality of the procedure in the north. But by making it available in the south for free we reduce the barrier for women in the north. Somehow you think that is a bad thing. Bizarre.

amcalester

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The trolley crisis is in part a funding crisis. Wards remain closed due to budgetary constraints. The free abortion service delivered by GPs is expected to cost €450 per termination. This will be funded from the health budget. To expand this scheme to non residents and indeed non citizens will clearly mean less money being available from the overall health budget for other items.

Will maternity services be offered free to residents of Northern Ireland? No.
Will abortion services be offered for free to citizens of Malta who cannot access abortion services? No. But other, equally non Irish citizens will be offered this service for free.
My belief is this is entirely due to the political ambitions of Simon Harris.

It'll cost less than 1 quarter of 1% of the total HSE budget.

SafeSurfer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

progress is measured by the removal of barriers to healthcare. We can do nothing about the legality of the procedure in the north. But by making it available in the south for free we reduce the barrier for women in the north. Somehow you think that is a bad thing. Bizarre.

I think it is extraordinary that the repeal the eight campaign was based on women not having access to abortion services in their own jurisdiction which forced them to travel.
And now it is considered progress that women will still have to leave their jurisdiction to travel but it’s great because they don’t have to cross a body of water to do so.

ohnonotgmail

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think it is extraordinary that the repeal the eight campaign was based on women not having access to abortion services in their own jurisdiction which forced them to travel.
And now it is considered progress that women will still have to leave their jurisdiction to travel but it’s great because they don’t have to cross a body of water to do so.

I can only assume you are being deliberately obtuse. That is the kindest assumption i can make.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Surely it's not free for god's sake.

That sounds kind of fcked up tbh. I'm sure 'No' voters wouldn't want their taxes going towards such practices.

SafeSurfer

amcalester wrote: »

It'll cost less than 1 quarter of 1% of the total HSE budget.

And we could eliminate the childrens scoliosis waiting list by building a new theatre in Crumlin for €2 to €3, million, potentially a fraction of the cost of providing free abortion services to non citizens who can avail of free services under their own health care system for little more than the price of a train ticket to Dublin.

SafeSurfer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I can only assume you are being deliberately obtuse. That is the kindest assumption i can make.

Free abortions are already available to citizens of Northern Ireland. Including free travel to those who can’t afford it.
Will the Irish government also provide free travel to northern Irish citizens seeking an abortion?


https://www.bpas.org/abortion-care/considering-abortion/northern-ireland-funded-abortion-treatment/

gctest50

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Surely it's not free for god's sake.

That sounds kind of fcked up tbh.

I'm sure 'No' voters wouldn't want their taxes going towards such practices.

And how do 'No' voters feel about their taxes going towards feeding child murderers locked up in prison ?

I don't like it, a rope and a long drop would be cheaper

gctest50

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Free abortions are already available to citizens of Northern Ireland. Including free travel to those who can’t afford it.
Will the Irish government also provide free travel to northern Irish citizens seeking an abortion?


https://www.bpas.org/abortion-care/considering-abortion/northern-ireland-funded-abortion-treatment/

Hard to find a hospital at 33,000 feet

Hard to find a hospital in the middle of the sea