Extension of Abortion Services To Northern Ireland

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2018 03:35PM

gctest50 wrote: »

And trying to slip in bull$hit and or lies and hoping no-one notices is exactly the same as
tactics in arguments used by the Anti-Choice organisation

-self same as we all saw in the lead-up to the "8th Referendum"

You miss the point entirely.

Northern Irish women, seeking an abortion will still have to travel, just as southern Irish women have to travel until the provision of abortion services here.

ohnonotgmail · 15-11-2018 03:48PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You miss the point entirely.

Northern Irish women, seeking an abortion will still have to travel, just as southern Irish women have to travel until the provision of abortion services here.

and afterwards women from northern ireland will unfortunately still have to travel but not as far as before and wont have to pay for the service when they get there. Its called progress. Not as much progress as i would like but progress nonetheless.

kneemos · 15-11-2018 03:49PM

It's a nice gesture.

Wouldn't do much for relations with the DUP,but that relationship has been on the rocks now for a while.

Harry Palmr · 15-11-2018 03:52PM

How much is the coach from say Belfast to Dublin? a tenner?

ohnonotgmail · 15-11-2018 03:53PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How much is the coach from say Belfast to Dublin? a tenner?

about a tenner each way. though they wouldn't have to travel to dublin.

Harry Palmr · 15-11-2018 03:57PM

Indeed but I doubt it's much less to Dundalk or Drogheda and the shopping is much better.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2018 04:01PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and afterwards women from northern ireland will unfortunately still have to travel but not as far as before and wont have to pay for the service when they get there. Its called progress. Not as much progress as i would like but progress nonetheless.

So progress is measured not on the legality of health care where you live but on the distance you have to travel to access that healthcare?
Isn’t that extraordinary?

Grayson · 15-11-2018 04:27PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You miss the point entirely.

Northern Irish women, seeking an abortion will still have to travel, just as southern Irish women have to travel until the provision of abortion services here.

They'll hop on a bus, get a prescription, fill the prescription and then go home. It's not the same as making them travel to Britain by ferry/plane.

Also, in the opening post there was mention of the trolley crises. This is a GP led scheme. The vast majority of terminations will not be surgical and will not contribute to the trolley crises.

kneemos · 15-11-2018 04:30PM

It'd be worth it for the irony alone.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2018 04:44PM

Grayson wrote: »

They'll hop on a bus, get a prescription, fill the prescription and then go home. It's not the same as making them travel to Britain by ferry/plane.

Also, in the opening post there was mention of the trolley crises. This is a GP led scheme. The vast majority of terminations will not be surgical and will not contribute to the trolley crises.

The trolley crisis is in part a funding crisis. Wards remain closed due to budgetary constraints. The free abortion service delivered by GPs is expected to cost €450 per termination. This will be funded from the health budget. To expand this scheme to non residents and indeed non citizens will clearly mean less money being available from the overall health budget for other items.

Will maternity services be offered free to residents of Northern Ireland? No.
Will abortion services be offered for free to citizens of Malta who cannot access abortion services? No. But other, equally non Irish citizens will be offered this service for free.
My belief is this is entirely due to the political ambitions of Simon Harris.

Pretzeluck · 15-11-2018 04:56PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

The more abortions the better

Agreed, world is overpopulated to the extreme.

ohnonotgmail · 15-11-2018 05:01PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So progress is measured not on the legality of health care where you live but on the distance you have to travel to access that healthcare?
Isn’t that extraordinary?

progress is measured by the removal of barriers to healthcare. We can do nothing about the legality of the procedure in the north. But by making it available in the south for free we reduce the barrier for women in the north. Somehow you think that is a bad thing. Bizarre.

amcalester · 15-11-2018 05:09PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The trolley crisis is in part a funding crisis. Wards remain closed due to budgetary constraints. The free abortion service delivered by GPs is expected to cost €450 per termination. This will be funded from the health budget. To expand this scheme to non residents and indeed non citizens will clearly mean less money being available from the overall health budget for other items.

Will maternity services be offered free to residents of Northern Ireland? No.
Will abortion services be offered for free to citizens of Malta who cannot access abortion services? No. But other, equally non Irish citizens will be offered this service for free.
My belief is this is entirely due to the political ambitions of Simon Harris.

It'll cost less than 1 quarter of 1% of the total HSE budget.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2018 05:17PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

progress is measured by the removal of barriers to healthcare. We can do nothing about the legality of the procedure in the north. But by making it available in the south for free we reduce the barrier for women in the north. Somehow you think that is a bad thing. Bizarre.

I think it is extraordinary that the repeal the eight campaign was based on women not having access to abortion services in their own jurisdiction which forced them to travel.
And now it is considered progress that women will still have to leave their jurisdiction to travel but it’s great because they don’t have to cross a body of water to do so.

ohnonotgmail · 15-11-2018 05:19PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think it is extraordinary that the repeal the eight campaign was based on women not having access to abortion services in their own jurisdiction which forced them to travel.
And now it is considered progress that women will still have to leave their jurisdiction to travel but it’s great because they don’t have to cross a body of water to do so.

I can only assume you are being deliberately obtuse. That is the kindest assumption i can make.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 15-11-2018 05:23PM

Surely it's not free for god's sake.

That sounds kind of fcked up tbh. I'm sure 'No' voters wouldn't want their taxes going towards such practices.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2018 05:28PM

amcalester wrote: »

It'll cost less than 1 quarter of 1% of the total HSE budget.

And we could eliminate the childrens scoliosis waiting list by building a new theatre in Crumlin for €2 to €3, million, potentially a fraction of the cost of providing free abortion services to non citizens who can avail of free services under their own health care system for little more than the price of a train ticket to Dublin.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2018 05:34PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I can only assume you are being deliberately obtuse. That is the kindest assumption i can make.

Free abortions are already available to citizens of Northern Ireland. Including free travel to those who can’t afford it.
Will the Irish government also provide free travel to northern Irish citizens seeking an abortion?

https://www.bpas.org/abortion-care/considering-abortion/northern-ireland-funded-abortion-treatment/

gctest50 · 15-11-2018 05:37PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Surely it's not free for god's sake.

That sounds kind of fcked up tbh.

I'm sure 'No' voters wouldn't want their taxes going towards such practices.

And how do 'No' voters feel about their taxes going towards feeding child murderers locked up in prison ?

I don't like it, a rope and a long drop would be cheaper

gctest50 · 15-11-2018 05:39PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Free abortions are already available to citizens of Northern Ireland. Including free travel to those who can’t afford it.
Will the Irish government also provide free travel to northern Irish citizens seeking an abortion?

https://www.bpas.org/abortion-care/considering-abortion/northern-ireland-funded-abortion-treatment/

Hard to find a hospital at 33,000 feet

Hard to find a hospital in the middle of the sea

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2018 05:42PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Hard to find a hospital at 33,000 feet

Hard to find a hospital in the middle of the sea

No one procuring an abortion has ever flown ever, or taken a boat. Some people live on islands, even within Britain and Ireland.

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2018 05:43PM

gctest50 wrote: »

And how do 'No' voters feel about their taxes going towards feeding child murderers locked up in prison ?

I don't like it, a rope and a long drop would be cheaper

Child murderers! That’s a bit insensitive is it not.

gctest50 · 15-11-2018 05:55PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Child murderers! That’s a bit insensitive is it not.

I don't see how it is

I'd be sure they'd be locked up right next to the child molesters

How do 'No' voters feel about their taxes going towards feeding child molesters that are in prison ?

Amirani · 15-11-2018 06:01PM

gctest50 wrote: »

I don't see how it is

I'd be sure they'd be locked up right next to the child molesters

How do 'No' voters feel about their taxes going towards feeding child molesters that are in prison ?

What are you on about?

end of the road · 15-11-2018 06:07PM

gctest50 wrote: »

And how do 'No' voters feel about their taxes going towards feeding child murderers locked up in prison ?

I don't like it, a rope and a long drop would be cheaper

i'm thinking, there would need to be a huge number of appeals against the death sentence being caried out, so that all possible evidence can be put forward, new evidence can often come to light in the future. the person who would cary out the execution would surely be paid a huge wage to compensate them for such a hazardess job, and there is the costs to keep the person being executed in jail until the sentence is caried out, which could be years. so personally, i would be surprised if it did work out cheaper. not that it would happen anyway as the death penalty has thankfully had it's day in ireland. i'd be surprised if it doesn't breach human rights law at least, and probably international law as well.

gctest50 · 15-11-2018 06:09PM

Amirani wrote: »

What are you on about?

This :

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

.......

I'm sure 'No' voters wouldn't want their taxes going towards such practices.

The 'NO' voters don't "really" get a choice what "their" taxes go towards

And if the 'NO' voters are going to whimper about their taxes going towards abortion :

- how do the 'NO' voters feel about their taxes going to feed child molesters or child murderers locked up in Irish prisons ?

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2018 06:12PM

gctest50 wrote: »

I don't see how it is

I'd be sure they'd be locked up right next to the child molesters

How do 'No' voters feel about their taxes going towards feeding child molesters that are in prison ?

I presume No voters would suggest that child murderers and child molesters were given the opportunity to become child murderers whereas their victims were not. The victims didn’t have a choice.
No voters would arguably be anti death penalty, some of the strongest anti capital punishment advocates have been catholic priests and nuns who are anti abortion and anti death penalty precisely for the same reason. They see human life as sacred.
Having said that there are many members of religious orders in prison for molesting children.
The main message of Christianity as I understand it is forgiveness. So prisoners should be forgiven and indeed visited if the Bible is to be believed!

However getting back to the point. I pay for the imprisonment of those who have committed crimes in this jurisdiction or Irish citizens who have been repatriated.
We don’t offer to pay for the imprisonment of individuals from other jurisdictions simply because they have done something which is illegal here.

Neither should we be expected to pay for non citizens of Ireland to access medical care here which is already available for free in their own jurisdiction simply because it is more convenient.

McDermotX · 15-11-2018 06:15PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Surely it's not free for god's sake.

That sounds kind of fcked up tbh. I'm sure 'No' voters wouldn't want their taxes going towards such practices.

Without going down the whole 'whataboutery' of taxes etc

Plenty of Yes voters would be of the same mind TBH.

Personally speaking, in the event of it being a warranted choice, you can choose to pay.

Certainly the idea of extending such a service to foreign tax-payers is taking the p*ss.

gctest50 · 15-11-2018 06:16PM

end of the road wrote: »

i'm thinking, there would need to be a huge number of appeals against the death sentence being caried out, so that all possible evidence can be put forward, new evidence can often come to light in the future. the person who would cary out the execution would surely be paid a huge wage to compensate them for such a hazardess job, and there is the costs to keep the person being executed in jail until the sentence is caried out, which could be years. so personally, i would be surprised if it did work out cheaper. not that it would happen anyway as the death penalty has thankfully had it's day in ireland. i'd be surprised if it doesn't breach human rights law at least, and probably international law as well.

ah - deflect deflect deflect

I said i dont like the way de peeeeples taxes go towards feeding child murderers, see here :

gctest50 wrote: »

I don't like it, a rope and a long drop would be cheaper

Capital punishment is a bad idea because of false imprisonment

SafeSurfer · 15-11-2018 06:22PM

gctest50 wrote: »

ah - deflect deflect deflect

I said i dont like the way de peeeeples taxes go towards feeding child murderers, see here :

Capital punishment is a bad idea because of false imprisonment

So is it fair to assume you are pro death penalty and pro abortion?

Extension of Abortion Services To Northern Ireland

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