Taken Down [RTE]

RabbleRouser2k

The Late Late Show wrote: »

Same here. Episode 2 was way too slow and nothing happened in it. The backstory for this show is good and there is potential for this but this second episode was a waste of time. This is typical of RTE though. They run with a good idea and ruin it by not going the full way. 'Love/Hate' was a one off. Stuart Carolan's involvement with this series is probably minimal. I feel RTE said they'd try a series with a female lead duo as an answer to 'The Handmaid's Tale' but Jo Spain is no Margaret Atwood and there is no Elisabeth Moss quality stars in this either. And if this Wayne is the villain, then it is a joke. Wayne is portrayed as a clown and it is such a waste of Brian Gleeson who previously gave us Hughie, the main villain of the first Love/Hate series.

It's like other shows RTE do-it's going to be padded out like crazy, and then they'll pull the 'Oh crap, we've only got 2 episodes left, Cram everything in'.

I don't know if folks read TV now (far better than the RTE guide) but there's a column at the back that often reviews current TV shows. And tbh, he's pretty accurate on tv reviews-his and my tastes are pretty spot on. (Barring the one or two I've disagreed with-like, shows I've watched that I felt improved after the first two episodes).
He spotted Acceptable Risk was a dud after the first (two, I believe) episode(s). Finding Joy he spotted was crap after I think two episodes. On the other hand, Women on the Verge (which had little promotion on RTE, in comparison) he sang the praises of. And he was pretty accurate.

I generally have a '3 episodes, and I'm in/ out' rule. If a show doesn't grab me after 3 episodes, I won't stick around for the fourth.
I can't see me watching a third of Taken Down. It's not good enough. I imagine they sold it on the premise it would be another 'Nidge and co'...and it's not.
The criminal element is better written, for sure, but the gardai and co are bland and one dimensional.

donkeykong5

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

The Late Late Show wrote: »

Same here. Episode 2 was way too slow and nothing happened in it. The backstory for this show is good and there is potential for this but this second episode was a waste of time. This is typical of RTE though. They run with a good idea and ruin it by not going the full way. 'Love/Hate' was a one off. Stuart Carolan's involvement with this series is probably minimal. I feel RTE said they'd try a series with a female lead duo as an answer to 'The Handmaid's Tale' but Jo Spain is no Margaret Atwood and there is no Elisabeth Moss quality stars in this either. And if this Wayne is the villain, then it is a joke. Wayne is portrayed as a clown and it is such a waste of Brian Gleeson who previously gave us Hughie, the main villain of the first Love/Hate series.

It's like other shows RTE do-it's going to be padded out like crazy, and then they'll pull the 'Oh crap, we've only got 2 episodes left, Cram everything in'.

I don't know if folks read TV now (far better than the RTE guide) but there's a column at the back that often reviews current TV shows. And tbh, he's pretty accurate on tv reviews-his and my tastes are pretty spot on. (Barring the one or two I've disagreed with-like, shows I've watched that I felt improved after the first two episodes).
He spotted Acceptable Risk was a dud after the first (two, I believe) episode(s). Finding Joy he spotted was crap after I think two episodes. On the other hand, Women on the Verge (which had little promotion on RTE, in comparison) he sang the praises of. And he was pretty accurate.

I generally have a '3 episodes, and I'm in/ out' rule. If a show doesn't grab me after 3 episodes, I won't stick around for the fourth.
I can't see me watching a third of Taken Down. It's not good enough. I imagine they sold it on the premise it would be another 'Nidge and co'...and it's not.
The criminal element is better written, for sure, but the gardai and co are bland and one dimensional.

Tv now is actually half the price of the rte guide and doesn't constantly have cookery people from cork featured in it.

rob316

Really poor can't get into this at all. Ya it's gritty but it's ****ing boring.

It's like love hate was great so let's take lots of the supporting cast and throw them on a show, it'll still be great. It's not though far from it.

Graniteville

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

It's like other shows RTE do-it's going to be padded out like crazy, and then they'll pull the 'Oh crap, we've only got 2 episodes left, Cram everything in'.

But it's not an RTE show. It's a totally independent show and RTE bought the broadcast rights for Ireland. Fremantle media bought rest of world rights

Season 2 is in planning.

RabbleRouser2k

Graniteville wrote: »

But it's not an RTE show. It's a totally independent show and RTE bought the broadcast rights for Ireland. Fremantle media bought rest of world rights

Season 2 is in planning.

Yeah, apologies-should have edited that. Acceptable Risk wasn't RTE either, but I believe broadcast rights for abroad were also bought. (It's currently airing on Universal channel).

I feel like this show needed another draft. And more research. It's not finished. I'd be very reluctant of a season 2, not unless there was a great deal of recasting, and cuts. They could easily remove the leads, focus on another group of guards.
Do a 'True Detective' on the show. But unlike TD, make season 2 better.

As someone else said, I cannot help but notice the timing for this show mightn't be helping. The mention of Tusla on the second episode had me thinking 'Yeah, I'd stay as far away from Tusla as I could'.

Articles like this, for example, don't help. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mother-claims-tusla-scandalously-closed-file-on-her-boy-due-to-lack-of-resources-881011.html

The Late Late Show

rob316 wrote: »

Really poor can't get into this at all. Ya it's gritty but it's ****ing boring.

It's like love hate was great so let's take lots of the supporting cast and throw them on a show, it'll still be great. It's not though far from it.

It is not looking good so far. The first episode was solid, decent but not spectacular and the second episode was total rubbish. We need to know where things go next week and have some decent action and storylines emerging.

The OBVIOUS thing would be to do a Love/Hate spinoff. But RTE never want to do the obvious thing. What we have here in 2 episodes so far is not good at all. Too many ideas and a lack of identity are what we are seeing so far.

Irish dramas of the last 4 years have so far not come close to Love/Hate. Clean Break was decent but nothing special. Rebellion was boring. Acceptable Risk was just ok. Striking Out was poor fare that only got worse when it got a second season. Paula was one of the better ones but the finale was a little bit of an anti-climax. The Fall and Amber were decent though hardly as exciting as Love/Hate. Taken Down seems to be so far not as good as Clean Break or Acceptable Risk but not as bad as Striking Out.

RabbleRouser2k

The Late Late Show wrote: »

It is not looking good so far. The first episode was solid, decent but not spectacular and the second episode was total rubbish. We need to know where things go next week and have some decent action and storylines emerging.

The OBVIOUS thing would be to do a Love/Hate spinoff. But RTE never want to do the obvious thing. What we have here in 2 episodes so far is not good at all. Too many ideas and a lack of identity are what we are seeing so far.

Irish dramas of the last 4 years have so far not come close to Love/Hate. Clean Break was decent but nothing special. Rebellion was boring. Acceptable Risk was just ok. Striking Out was poor fare that only got worse when it got a second season. Paula was one of the better ones but the finale was a little bit of an anti-climax. The Fall and Amber were decent though hardly as exciting as Love/Hate. Taken Down seems to be so far not as good as Clean Break or Acceptable Risk but not as bad as Striking Out.

Acceptable Risk is why I'll never watch anything Angeline Ball is in, ever again. (She was also in Redwater). The ending, where they tied it into a similar Tuam Babies case was absolutely awful. As was the 'fake news cast' in the final episode-which looks like cheap templates bought from the web. It was comically bad. Just comical. (And Elaine Cassidy did the same thing as Orla Fitzgerald is doing-one expression throughout, to show this is a 'serious' drama.) Couple that with leaps in suspension of disbelief that meant it kicked you out of the show after the first episode. (The Canadian consulate getting so much sorted within an hour).

I think The Fall benefited from some really strong acting that meant shortcomings were overlooked. If an episode felt dragging, you'd get a solid performance that would hide it. (Until the third series, when the wheels kind of came off, which explains there not being a fourth series).
Paula and Amber were flops, and rightfully so. A wasted premise on each.
Rebellion was hilariously bad-the attempts to hide modern technology, as well as the 'lesbian romance' showed this was half baked. As was the '30+ year old women pretending to be teenagers.

The Late Late Show

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Acceptable Risk is why I'll never watch anything Angeline Ball is in, ever again. (She was also in Redwater). The ending, where they tied it into a similar Tuam Babies case was absolutely awful. As was the 'fake news cast' in the final episode-which looks like cheap templates bought from the web. It was comically bad. Just comical. (And Elaine Cassidy did the same thing as Orla Fitzgerald is doing-one expression throughout, to show this is a 'serious' drama.) Couple that with leaps in suspension of disbelief that meant it kicked you out of the show after the first episode. (The Canadian consulate getting so much sorted within an hour).

I think The Fall benefited from some really strong acting that meant shortcomings were overlooked. If an episode felt dragging, you'd get a solid performance that would hide it. (Until the third series, when the wheels kind of came off, which explains there not being a fourth series).
Paula and Amber were flops, and rightfully so. A wasted premise on each.
Rebellion was hilariously bad-the attempts to hide modern technology, as well as the 'lesbian romance' showed this was half baked. As was the '30+ year old women pretending to be teenagers.

Agree. Apart from The Fall (which was overall good), the other series were both poor but had potential. Angeline Ball has been in a few dodgy Irish dramas over the years and by the time of Acceptable Risk, I knew she was someone I could not take seriously. Amy Huberman is the same.

Why are we getting all this half baked mediocre to downright terrible drama on Irish channels? Paula and Amber were somewhat better but still not great. Paula was let down by a very poor third final episode and the whole thing in the end was like a poor man's Stephen King.

Why can't some other Irish drama come along that actually is good like Love/Hate is? I had high hopes for Taken Down but it shows it is probably 95% written by this Jo Spain and 5% written by Stuart Carolan (who may merely have just come up with the idea and whose name is on it to get people interested). Even if things pick up next week, that whole second episode exists and there was not episodes like that in decent dramas (even the worst episodes of the good series would have a purpose).

When a lot of the action is done off screen (the girl's murder and the suicide), this is a worrying sign. This was a trait in Rebellion too. If Taken Down was made in the spirit of Love/Hate or The Handmaid's Tale, it would be excellent. A drama exploring gangland, immigrants, people trafficking and terrorist groups would be excellent but with muppets like this Wayne, Taken Down does not seem to be able to deliver. Let's wait and see what episode 3 brings. It needs to pick up next week. One ok-ish and one downright awful episode so far have not made me fall in love with this series.

RabbleRouser2k

The Late Late Show wrote: »

Agree. Apart from The Fall (which was overall good), the other series were both poor but had potential. Angeline Ball has been in a few dodgy Irish dramas over the years and by the time of Acceptable Risk, I knew she was someone I could not take seriously. Amy Huberman is the same.

Why are we getting all this half baked mediocre to downright terrible drama on Irish channels? Paula and Amber were somewhat better but still not great. Paula was let down by a very poor third final episode and the whole thing in the end was like a poor man's Stephen King.

Why can't some other Irish drama come along that actually is good like Love/Hate is? I had high hopes for Taken Down but it shows it is probably 95% written by this Jo Spain and 5% written by Stuart Carolan (who may merely have just come up with the idea and whose name is on it to get people interested). Even if things pick up next week, that whole second episode exists and there was not episodes like that in decent dramas (even the worst episodes of the good series would have a purpose).

When a lot of the action is done off screen (the girl's murder and the suicide), this is a worrying sign. This was a trait in Rebellion too. If Taken Down was made in the spirit of Love/Hate or The Handmaid's Tale, it would be excellent. A drama exploring gangland, immigrants, people trafficking and terrorist groups would be excellent but with muppets like this Wayne, Taken Down does not seem to be able to deliver. Let's wait and see what episode 3 brings. It needs to pick up next week. One ok-ish and one downright awful episode so far have not made me fall in love with this series.

Genuinely, it seems when the money wasn't there-round the time of the recession, there was more time and effort given to shows. Be it Love/ Hate or The Fall. Nowadays, there's almost more 'push' to get these shows made and finished, but they're all first draft-a second or third draft would be needed to polish them off. If you look at shows that came out prior to the recession, you got a variable hit and miss quality to em as well. But now we seem to be getting far more misses than hits. The good stuff is made in Ireland, but not produced by RTE. It has to be funded from outside.

The bad stuff is produced using funding from RTE (Finding Joy-which, for a show that was meant to be 'modern Ireland' was very white-very few tans or new-Irish to be seen). And it's the same 'faces' that are getting the funding- or people who build up a following on twitter, so RTE gives them a show, and it tanks (Nowhere Fast, involving a 'comedian' named Allison Spittle, who has a large number of followers on twitter. But her show didn't do much). There was a time you had to prove yourself-writing, producing or whatever. But folks like Amy Huberman have proven themselves to not be entertaining, and yet still get new projects thrown at em.

Graniteville

Just been told that a couple of key characters are only getting introduced this Sunday and if you're squeamish, its not something you'll want to watch.

But I never understand armchair critics. Basically if they don't like something it is then automatically sh1te.

I don't like lager, I despise rap music, I utterly hate The Office and I'd rather stare at a blank wall than watch x-factor or strictly. - But that is MY opinion and does not make any of these things crap or bad or anything.

Imagine if we only had one channel and everyone had to like what was on it? - We'd be an utterly boring race.

Basically, if you don't like it, that's fine, but eff off to another channel and stop the childish moronic back seat critique and maybe let the thread get back to discussing the programme.


And finally, it was NEVER EVER promoted as the "New Love Hate". Its from the same team as Love Hate, hence cinematography and production values would be strong, but no storyline connection in anyway shoe or form.

yourdeadwright

I think the problem with it so far is none of the cast are likeable,

No there is no characters you care about so far,

The main Guard is so wooden , Like someone on fair city ,

She was Aido's missus in Love/hate and is the exact same but in a Garda uniform ,

Graniteville

Graniteville wrote: »

But I never understand armchair critics. Basically if they don't like something it is then automatically sh1te.

This seems to be the default reaction to anything that is being discussed online now. It's soul destroying reading the comments sometimes. Negative argumentative griping is the order of the day. The journal.ie is another prime example, - every article, every opinion, is trashed by the know-all self appointed experts.
They have me griping now

The Late Late Show

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Genuinely, it seems when the money wasn't there-round the time of the recession, there was more time and effort given to shows. Be it Love/ Hate or The Fall. Nowadays, there's almost more 'push' to get these shows made and finished, but they're all first draft-a second or third draft would be needed to polish them off. If you look at shows that came out prior to the recession, you got a variable hit and miss quality to em as well. But now we seem to be getting far more misses than hits. The good stuff is made in Ireland, but not produced by RTE. It has to be funded from outside.

The bad stuff is produced using funding from RTE (Finding Joy-which, for a show that was meant to be 'modern Ireland' was very white-very few tans or new-Irish to be seen). And it's the same 'faces' that are getting the funding- or people who build up a following on twitter, so RTE gives them a show, and it tanks (Nowhere Fast, involving a 'comedian' named Allison Spittle, who has a large number of followers on twitter. But her show didn't do much). There was a time you had to prove yourself-writing, producing or whatever. But folks like Amy Huberman have proven themselves to not be entertaining, and yet still get new projects thrown at em.

Love/Hate was made originally in 2009 and released in 2010 during the worst of the recession and its subsequent series were even better. They covered the recession period and how gangland fared during that time. The Fall likewise offered a clever and taut crime thriller.

Finding Joy and Alison Spittle are more of the same formulaic RTE comedy stuff. As for the pre-recession times: didn't that give us all them Angeline Ball dramas and The Big Bow Wow, On Home Ground, and so on. A lot of them interesting concepts but poorly written and produced.

Graniteville wrote: »

Just been told that a couple of key characters are only getting introduced this Sunday and if you're squeamish, its not something you'll want to watch.

But I never understand armchair critics. Basically if they don't like something it is then automatically sh1te.

I don't like lager, I despise rap music, I utterly hate The Office and I'd rather stare at a blank wall than watch x-factor or strictly. - But that is MY opinion and does not make any of these things crap or bad or anything.

Imagine if we only had one channel and everyone had to like what was on it? - We'd be an utterly boring race.

Basically, if you don't like it, that's fine, but eff off to another channel and stop the childish moronic back seat critique and maybe let the thread get back to discussing the programme.


And finally, it was NEVER EVER promoted as the "New Love Hate". Its from the same team as Love Hate, hence cinematography and production values would be strong, but no storyline connection in anyway shoe or form.

People are entitled to air their opinions on dramas when they are paying TV licences. If the drama is good, it's good. If not, it is not. Dramas like Clean Break, Rebellion and Paula did not get a second series either because they were poor or they were flawed. All 3 were watchable. Paula's first 2 episodes were quite good even but it was let down in the third. The other 2 were toned down in response to criticism of the violence in Love/Hate. I don't call these dramas like Clean Break, Rebellion, etc. as sh1te but they are not as good as they potentially could have been.

Taken Down has potential and while the second episode was very disappointing, that does not mean the next 4 will be. Taken Down should be made in the spirit of Love/Hate and cover its topic in that manner. That does not mean it should be a copy of Love/Hate. For example, other dramas like The Handmaid's Tale or Alias Grace made outside of Ireland are done excellently and are NOT AFRAID to show the full details of the worlds they depict just as is the case with Love/Hate. I am hoping Taken Down will be as satisfying and that in the next few weeks, episode 2 will be a distant memory.

Ah in fairness, in this day and age they should be able to knock out a decent drama without the ridiculous two dimensional stereotypes and the shocking acting..added to that yer man coming out and saying all the criticism is racist was just..I dunno..

The Late Late Show

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah in fairness, in this day and age they should be able to knock out a decent drama without the ridiculous two dimensional stereotypes and the shocking acting..added to that yer man coming out and saying all the criticism is racist was just..I dunno..

Of course they should. Series that get more than one season are doing something right (with a few exceptions like Striking Out).

When a violent TV series that is good comes along, there is an outcry about things in it from some viewers. I remember in each of the series of Love/Hate, there was a violent incident or incidents complained about. This and last year, the same types were complaining about violent incidents in The Handmaid's Tale in much the same way. People should know that these dramas are about Irish gangland and a violent misogynist fictional dictatorship called the Republic of Gilead respectively and they are not adaptations of chick lit and the like! The worlds are depicted as they should be in each.

After watching season 1 of The Handmaid's Tale and Love/Hate back to back earlier in the year, both are as good as each other. So, Irish drama can hold with the best of them. Same when watching Love/Hate and Breaking Bad at the same time: both excellent. RTE's post-Love/Hate dramas could not be included in that bracket. Some are interesting but flawed and others are not up to scratch at all.

Taken Down has 4 more episodes to go and will it be a good and realistic depiction of its theme or will it be another sanitised post-Love/Hate RTE drama that compromises for the squeamish. Or will it have a split personality with the Carolan-scripted episodes (if there are episodes scripted mostly by each writer) looking more Love/Hate-ish and the Spain episodes more sanitised.

yourdeadwright

The Late Late Show wrote: »

Of course they should. Series that get more than one season are doing something right (with a few exceptions like Striking Out).

When a violent TV series that is good comes along, there is an outcry about things in it from some viewers. I remember in each of the series of Love/Hate, there was a violent incident or incidents complained about. This and last year, the same types were complaining about violent incidents in The Handmaid's Tale in much the same way. People should know that these dramas are about Irish gangland and a violent misogynist fictional dictatorship called the Republic of Gilead respectively and they are not adaptations of chick lit and the like! The worlds are depicted as they should be in each.

After watching season 1 of The Handmaid's Tale and Love/Hate back to back earlier in the year, both are as good as each other. So, Irish drama can hold with the best of them. Same when watching Love/Hate and Breaking Bad at the same time: both excellent. RTE's post-Love/Hate dramas could not be included in that bracket. Some are interesting but flawed and others are not up to scratch at all.

Taken Down has 4 more episodes to go and will it be a good and realistic depiction of its theme or will it be another sanitised post-Love/Hate RTE drama that compromises for the squeamish. Or will it have a split personality with the Carolan-scripted episodes (if there are episodes scripted mostly by each writer) looking more Love/Hate-ish and the Spain episodes more sanitised.

I have always thought Love/hate is hugely over rated, The whole fizzy orange thing with Tommy was laughable and there was plenty mre things lke that, It was good for RTe and that's about it,
Now you have gone and compared it to breaking bad, come on there not even close in quality

The Late Late Show

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I have always thought Love/hate is hugely over rated, The whole fizzy orange thing with Tommy was laughable and there was plenty mre things lke that, It was good for RTe and that's about it,
Now you have gone and compared it to breaking bad, come on there not even close in quality

Personally I found Love/Hate to be as good as Breaking Bad and the other series I mentioned. IMDB rate it 8.4/10. Breaking Bad is on 9.5/10. The Handmaid's Tale is on 8.6/10. Sure the 2 US TV shows beat it but slightly. 8.4/10 is excellent for an Irish series on a much lower budget made during the recession. Breaking Bad and The Handmaid's Tale are on 96% and 92% respectively on Rotten Tomatoes. Love/Hate is not listed but would I predict be around 90% if there. If Love/Hate was from a bigger country, it would be rated even higher.

Some people will rate shows different (I have never got into The Wire for example even though it is universally praised and is a good show but not for me I guess). For me and many others, Love/Hate was something that I looked forward to each week. I wish I could say the same about the shows of the last 4 years on RTE.

bodhrandude

Graniteville wrote: »

Just been told that a couple of key characters are only getting introduced this Sunday and if you're squeamish, its not something you'll want to watch.

But I never understand armchair critics. Basically if they don't like something it is then automatically sh1te.

I don't like lager, I despise rap music, I utterly hate The Office and I'd rather stare at a blank wall than watch x-factor or strictly. - But that is MY opinion and does not make any of these things crap or bad or anything.

Imagine if we only had one channel and everyone had to like what was on it? - We'd be an utterly boring race.

Basically, if you don't like it, that's fine, but eff off to another channel and stop the childish moronic back seat critique and maybe let the thread get back to discussing the programme.


And finally, it was NEVER EVER promoted as the "New Love Hate". Its from the same team as Love Hate, hence cinematography and production values would be strong, but no storyline connection in anyway shoe or form.

Can you give a clue like, is it a forensic or a mortuary sequence or is it extreme violence, If its the cutting up of dead bodies such as episode 2 hinted I will just close my eyes, the extreme violence I suppose I'm desensitised too after Love Hate and the likes of Vikings ha ha.

hatrickpatrick

I'm calling this now, based on a rewatch of the end of episode 2 - the latter part of this season is going to involve a serious amount of "this sh!te happens because they're not allowed to work legally, but they're stuck here for so long" dialogue and will most likely involve the two main Gardaí going on a campaigning crusade to that effect.

I hope not as I feel this would again be too obvious and too far into the "use the drama slot to push an agenda" territory, but I'm primarily basing this theory, apart from the ending of episode 2 which seems to set it up, on the last episode of Acceptable Risk. I know it's a different production company and all that, but as I said in a previous post this seems to be the way a lot of drama is going over the last couple of years so it wouldn't surprise me.

hatrickpatrick

The Late Late Show wrote: »

Personally I found Love/Hate to be as good as Breaking Bad and the other series I mentioned. IMDB rate it 8.4/10. Breaking Bad is on 9.5/10. The Handmaid's Tale is on 8.6/10. Sure the 2 US TV shows beat it but slightly. 8.4/10 is excellent for an Irish series on a much lower budget made during the recession. Breaking Bad and The Handmaid's Tale are on 96% and 92% respectively on Rotten Tomatoes. Love/Hate is not listed but would I predict be around 90% if there. If Love/Hate was from a bigger country, it would be rated even higher.

Some people will rate shows different (I have never got into The Wire for example even though it is universally praised and is a good show but not for me I guess). For me and many others, Love/Hate was something that I looked forward to each week. I wish I could say the same about the shows of the last 4 years on RTE.

I only got around to watching Breaking Bad this year, and I can clearly see the parallels and how Love/Hate was heavily influenced by the writing breakthroughs and envelopes pushed by Breaking Bad. The one thing I'd say, and I think this is almost universally agreed by most Love/Hate fans, is that it failed to live up to Breaking Bad not in any way because of subpar writing or acting, but because it lacked sufficient breathing space thanks to the short seasons it was commissioned for. Try to imagine seasons three and four of Breaking Bad - the Gus Fring era - playing out over six or twelve episodes in total instead of 24, it would still have been good, but it would have suffered from the obvious "the writers really want to do epic things here, but they have to cram the last few episodes of the season because of the length constraint" problem which Love/Hate did. Season Six of Love/Hate in particular was a mess in my view -

a much hyped up prison break in one episode, followed by an almost immediate recapture in the very next episode with no time for the tension to build in between

is one obvious example, as well as season one's plot twist of

Darren figuring out that Hughie had shot Robbie

which seemed to come almost entirely out of left field, but could have made more sense with more time for everything to percolate.

This obviously doesn't get solved without RTE devoting more of its budget to its crime dramas, and it's clearly still possible to pull off epic television even with such season length constraints in mind, but several of their dramas could have been far better without being so rushed.

The Late Late Show

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm calling this now, based on a rewatch of the end of episode 2 - the latter part of this season is going to involve a serious amount of "this sh!te happens because they're not allowed to work legally, but they're stuck here for so long" dialogue and will most likely involve the two main Gardaí going on a campaigning crusade to that effect.

I hope not as I feel this would again be too obvious and too far into the "use the drama slot to push an agenda" territory, but I'm primarily basing this theory, apart from the ending of episode 2 which seems to set it up, on the last episode of Acceptable Risk. I know it's a different production company and all that, but as I said in a previous post this seems to be the way a lot of drama is going over the last couple of years so it wouldn't surprise me.

There will be a lot of that and it won't be very interesting. RTE drama has disimproved steadily over the last few years and now even the relative disappointment that was Clean Break looks relatively decent in comparison to more recent efforts.

People will say including myself that the very first 2 episodes of Love/Hate were not as good as what would happen in both the latter 2 episodes of the first season and the subsequent seasons but they were still streets ahead of the first 2 episodes of Taken Down and had a purpose to sow the seeds for the change of pace of episodes 3 and 4 of that season.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I only got around to watching Breaking Bad this year, and I can clearly see the parallels and how Love/Hate was heavily influenced by the writing breakthroughs and envelopes pushed by Breaking Bad. The one thing I'd say, and I think this is almost universally agreed by most Love/Hate fans, is that it failed to live up to Breaking Bad not in any way because of subpar writing or acting, but because it lacked sufficient breathing space thanks to the short seasons it was commissioned for. Try to imagine seasons three and four of Breaking Bad - the Gus Fring era - playing out over six or twelve episodes in total instead of 24, it would still have been good, but it would have suffered from the obvious "the writers really want to do epic things here, but they have to cram the last few episodes of the season because of the length constraint" problem which Love/Hate did. Season Six of Love/Hate in particular was a mess in my view -

a much hyped up prison break in one episode, followed by an almost immediate recapture in the very next episode with no time for the tension to build in between

is one obvious example, as well as season one's plot twist of

Darren figuring out that Hughie had shot Robbie

which seemed to come almost entirely out of left field, but could have made more sense with more time for everything to percolate.

This obviously doesn't get solved without RTE devoting more of its budget to its crime dramas, and it's clearly still possible to pull off epic television even with such season length constraints in mind, but several of their dramas could have been far better without being so rushed.

I too was a late comer to series like Breaking Bad and The Handmaid's Tale too. Largely to fill the void left over by Love/Hate and the lack of good Irish drama. I'm glad I did. I have yet to watch Game of Thrones and need to watch The Sopranos again which was great all them years ago.

I agree as do other fans that Love/Hate should have been longer than just 6 episodes per season 2-5 and 4 episodes in season 1. If RTE would stop all its reality TV output, then it would have the budget for it but they didn't want to do that sadly.

bodhrandude wrote: »

Can you give a clue like, is it a forensic or a mortuary sequence or is it extreme violence, If its the cutting up of dead bodies such as episode 2 hinted I will just close my eyes, the extreme violence I suppose I desensitised too after Love Hate and the likes of Vikings ha ha.

Going on the first 2 episodes, there was nothing to warrant the warnings about upsetting scenes given on Sunday last. There would be more upsetting scenes in a standard Coronation Street episode. Extreme violence on RTE dramas ended when Fran was left in a pool of blood in prison and Nidge was shot up badly in his Kildare hideout 4 years ago. After that, it has been toned down drama after toned down drama that shies away from violence.

All said and done, I am giving Taken Down a chance and I want to see the Stuart Carolan in it (he most certainly didn't write episode 2). Maybe episode 3 may bring things closer to the type of drama I want it to be. It will also determine if I will buy the DVD or not. One mediocre, one poor and then good episodes will be still acceptable but three mediocre to poor ones in a row out of 6 would not be.

irishguitarlad

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

As I suspected this seems like more liberal feminist/asylum seeker propaganda. The reality is we are overflowing with fraudulent asylum seekers and those turned down spend years exhausting the appeal process and we rarely deport any of them.

Most of the tweets so far are liberals feigning outrage about direct provision.

Just readings these posts and I'm glad I don't live in Ireland and subject to this agenda. Actually I'm watching the Wire at the moment as I've never seen It before, PC wise it's probably the polar opposite of this. Made before all this madness that has swept the US and Ireland and by christ what a show it is, awesome.

Redneck Culchie

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Just readings these posts and I'm glad I don't live in Ireland and subject to this agenda. Actually I'm watching the Wire at the moment as I've never seen It before, PC wise it's probably the polar opposite of this. Made before all this madness that has swept the US and Ireland and by christ what a show it is, awesome.

The Wire is class. It's not really trying to force some political agenda down your throat in a half arsed way, it's just brilliant television. It also did highlight a lot of issues in it's own way. But it wasn't forced on the viewer. First and foremost it was a TV show.

tylercheribini

The Wire was by no means a hit when it first aired state-side, its a small miracle it lasted the five series. Perhaps white America had some of the same thematic issues with it as people seem to have here with Taken Down. I recall one of The Wire's writers speculating the reasoning for the show's low viewership may have been as simple as white people flicking channels and not staying on the show due to its mainly black cast.

RabbleRouser2k

tylercheribini wrote: »

The Wire was by no means a hit when it first aired state-side, its a small miracle it lasted the five series. Perhaps white America had some of the same thematic issues with it as people seem to have here with Taken Down. I recall one of The Wire's writers speculating the reasoning for the show's low viewership may have been as simple as white people flicking channels and not staying on the show due to its mainly black cast.

The Wire also was one of the earliest 'Ugly' shows. It didn't hide from the dark stuff. I personally think it was because it had a rotating cast that people didn't get into it-there was no central character, the city was the substitute for that. The strange thing is, many shows in that era weren't huge hits-Arrested Development being another one. But they were critically acclaimed. Yet couldn't pull an audience. (When the show returned-it wasn't as good. It's on season 5 now, and nobody's watching it as the quality is so much less.
The only show, at least, that seemed to get the critics and the audience was The Sopranos.

If it was airing on Netflix, it probably would have been a major hit. But Netflix wasn't around in the format it is now.
And the Wire benefited from being told in a serial, 'you'll have to wait until next week' format. Bingewatching has harmed a lot of shows.

The Late Late Show

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Just readings these posts and I'm glad I don't live in Ireland and subject to this agenda. Actually I'm watching the Wire at the moment as I've never seen It before, PC wise it's probably the polar opposite of this. Made before all this madness that has swept the US and Ireland and by christ what a show it is, awesome.

The problem with Taken Down is NOT the message it wants to portray but is the whole toned down afraid to show the world it wants to depict attitude (based on 2 episodes: I hope it might change but I doubt it). The topic about asylum seekers and those who exploit them is interesting but the way it is presented so far is not.

Shows will be sympathetic to different agendas and I don't care what agenda they push as long as it is not fascism, racism, sectarian agenda, misogynist agenda and bad American foreign policy justified. The important thing is the drama is produced in a professional thoughtful manner and depicts the reality of the situation and is good natured. For example, Love/Hate delves into the world of gangland convincingly and The Handmaid's Tale depicts the misogynist tyranny of a fascist state called Gilead convincingly. Both do not glorify evil but are warnings against evil societies.

Taken Down on the other hand is good natured and on the side of righteousness like other dramas BUT is not interesting enough. Yes, if Taken Down and a bunch of biased Chuck Norris neo-fascist films were all that were available, Taken Down's first 2 episodes are preferable. Thank god, this is not what we are reduced to though and Taken Down should be produced better than what we have got so far.

RabbleRouser2k

The Late Late Show wrote: »

The problem with Taken Down is NOT the message it wants to portray but is the whole toned down afraid to show the world it wants to depict attitude (based on 2 episodes: I hope it might change but I doubt it). The topic about asylum seekers and those who exploit them is interesting but the way it is presented so far is not.

Shows will be sympathetic to different agendas and I don't care what agenda they push as long as it is not fascism, racism, sectarian agenda, misogynist agenda and bad American foreign policy justified. The important thing is the drama is produced in a professional thoughtful manner and depicts the reality of the situation and is good natured. For example, Love/Hate delves into the world of gangland convincingly and The Handmaid's Tale depicts the misogynist tyranny of a fascist state called Gilead convincingly. Both do not glorify evil but are warnings against evil societies.

Taken Down on the other hand is good natured and on the side of righteousness like other dramas BUT is not interesting enough. Yes, if Taken Down and a bunch of biased Chuck Norris neo-fascist films were all that were available, Taken Down's first 2 episodes are preferable. Thank god, this is not what we are reduced to though and Taken Down should be produced better than what we have got so far.

TV Now had a good analysis of the show, I felt. I think he made some points of his own about Ireland and the situations. I felt these were important, but also, it stood out in that 'the show' should be showing this-not a TV critic in the back of a tv magazine. (No offence to him, in fact it was quite informative. But it was also a reminder that the show itsself should be telling us this-not someone else who's not writing for it).

As others noted in previous posts, the gardai are portrayed as buffoonish and cartoonish. Even described as porn obsessed. And the leads, from what I gathered, he is not too impressed with.
The criminal underworld element is interesting, but considering the amount of time we're spending with the guards, their weakness stands out like a sore thumb.

So, end of comments on TV Now editor, on to my own opinion.

It's a shame-you can tell some of the actors are talented. Even if others are... well, they'd be too subpar to star in a Coca Cola advert. It sort of reminds me of the weaknesses in the Love/ Hate when they showed us a glimpse of the garda operation to follow the criminals-the guards were soometimes wooden and lacking in the acting dept, even having the most stilted dialogue.
It wasn't as noticeable then, because they weren't the main focus. But it's noticable now.

Redneck Culchie

The guff about direct provision is just that guff. I live down the road from direct provision apartments, the other day a Nigerian fella from there was jailed for a few years. There is no war in Nigeria yet these Nigerian fraudsters keep flooding in and getting free housing ahead of Irish people. It's honestly sickening to witness and they are involved in a large amount of crime.

RabbleRouser2k

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

The guff about direct provision is just that guff. I live down the road from direct provision apartments, the other day a Nigerian fella from there was jailed for a few years. There is no war in Nigeria yet these Nigerian fraudsters keep flooding in and getting free housing ahead of Irish people. It's honestly sickening to witness and they are involved in a large amount of crime.

Oh, most definitely. That was the part of TV Now's review that I felt was preachy as hell. Yes, it's not great, but nobody was innocent then.
I remember there were places close to me that had a similar situation as you describe, including robberies, and one or two attacks on locals.

Tho, when they moved out, more dregs (not just asylum seekers, but urban scumbags) moved in. And it was the same thing over and over again.

The Late Late Show

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

TV Now had a good analysis of the show, I felt. I think he made some points of his own about Ireland and the situations. I felt these were important, but also, it stood out in that 'the show' should be showing this-not a TV critic in the back of a tv magazine. (No offence to him, in fact it was quite informative. But it was also a reminder that the show itsself should be telling us this-not someone else who's not writing for it).

As others noted in previous posts, the gardai are portrayed as buffoonish and cartoonish. Even described as porn obsessed. And the leads, from what I gathered, he is not too impressed with.
The criminal underworld element is interesting, but considering the amount of time we're spending with the guards, their weakness stands out like a sore thumb.

So, end of comments on TV Now editor, on to my own opinion.

It's a shame-you can tell some of the actors are talented. Even if others are... well, they'd be too subpar to star in a Coca Cola advert. It sort of reminds me of the weaknesses in the Love/ Hate when they showed us a glimpse of the garda operation to follow the criminals-the guards were soometimes wooden and lacking in the acting dept, even having the most stilted dialogue.
It wasn't as noticeable then, because they weren't the main focus. But it's noticable now.

The portrayal of the Gardaí in this show is a mix of stereotypes and is not a true depiction. Since some of the main characters in this show are Gardaí, then they should be played better.

The Gardaí played a very minor role in the first 3 series of Love/Hate. Most of the time, it was them raiding the homes of Nidge and co and questioning them. The only character who was a Garda to play a bigger role was the crooked cop Martin. In series 4 and 5, the Gardaí got a much bigger role but while some of them were not the best actors and they engaged in buffoonish ways like spraying Elmo's apartments, they were never the main focus as that was always Nidge and Fran.

At the end of the day though, Love/Hate is way superior to Taken Down. Taken Down lacks any standout characters so far. The standout memorable characters in Love/Hate were there from the start.