Star Trek: Lower Decks (animated series)

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073551#Comment_121073551

Can't say I disagree too much. Hated the temporal cold war stuff in Enterprise and the whole Xindi design and CGI, but there are some great episodes in the four seasons and I would like to think that if it had the extra 60+ episodes Voyager had there would have been some pretty good stuff in there. Probably more than Voyager. Problem with Voyager is once they got into the flow of it all the really good stuff focuses on the Doctor and Seven so you rewatch their stuff a lot, the Paris and Torres did not work at all, Kim and Tuvok weren't really interesting enough to do much with, Chakotay was there..But most of the best stuff is coming around season 4/5, how much of 1-3 are really that memorable. Kazon were garbage like!

Not saying Enterprise did much better that way, but I think they had kind of got to the stage that they realised Phlox and Trip were solid enough to focus on and the characters were interesting enough to be able to carry episodes by themselves. I think that they had built up some really interesting antagonists/allies with the Andorians/Vulcans/Klingons, you were getting a sense of how it worked with the chronology, and they were launching new ships and starting to expand properly. There was a lot of potential for a very fun season or two.

And I really love the potential redesign they had for Season 5 of the Enterprise, so that also may also colour my thinking!

I'm rewatching season3 at the moment.

Similitude, Twilight, Impulse are fantastic.

E2 is coming, also brilliant.

Crew is creaking, tempers flaring, ship damaged. I'm loving it in a binge/streaming world. I hated it when airing weekly

Evade

I really liked the transporter battle in E2 as an idea.

Oh Stratagem is up next. Brilliant episode

as an aside: I think Terry Matalas came up with the idea for Vulcan zombies (Impulse) and Stratagem

corkie

Just in case people are not looking at the star trek forum, 2 episodes today.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312630/lower-decks-4x01-twovix-spoilers-within

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312638/lower-decks-4x02-i-have-no-bones-yet-i-must-flee-spoilers-within

Bobtheman

This is just fantastic. I'm on season 2 episode 8 ecretus

I actually think it's the best trek out there. Risqué opinion?!

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058336057/lowe-decks-a-love-story

You’re not alone in that. I feel it outshines all of the current live action Trek offerings and manages to provide something new while making it feel like it belongs to the TNG era shows that we remember from before (they even use the TNG font on the title cards). Even the weakest Lower Decks episode is leagues ahead of the likes of Discovery in terms of making enjoyable Trek.

Also add the uncanny ability to make episodic Trek yet still manage a season-long character arc with a season-end payoff that works?!

I’ve only seen that on Lower Decks, and maybe Picard S3. With perhaps Strange New Worlds it is possibly the only competently made Trek out there. When Discovery finally leaves us, and the possible stink of whatever Section 31 becomes is aired out of the room, my hope is that the likes of Lower Decks will serve as an example of how to make a good Trek show, and for that example to be followed.

Bobtheman

The cartoon gives it a lot of freedom. It also manages to be authentic in the sense of showing star fleet incompetence. You'd expect that in any large military organisation.

I love the cuteness too. The borg babies carried by Bulmer in excretus

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764187#Comment_121764187

I’m a massive sucker for Tendi myself. A very addictive & fun character, but I also love the juxsposition of TOS’ Orion Slave Girl, with this show’s Orion Starfleet Officer. It’s a kind of progressive message that’s subtile and wins you over on it’s own merits & charm compared to smacking you over the head with it’s own sense of importance. Also she’s just fun! I like her.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764187#Comment_121764187

Definitely in terms of the comedy and hijinks being a cartoon helps but it also has the best developed characters in any new Trek show. Picard chopped and changed too much and SNW is doing a good job of it but still not quite at that level. Discovery has Saru and a load of characters who went backwards with every season.

pixelburp

The thing about comedic cartoons - and this goes for for live-action too IMO - is that good comedy writing tends to be as much about the Human Condition as it is setting up a good punchline. It's not always intentional or obvious but while sometimes we're laughing at a rake in the face, we're often laughing as much at ourselves as the characters on-screen and their foibles; because we recognise their failings, successes, retrospections and fúck ups.

I'd make a totally genuine contention that the best acting & character writing is often found in comedies as much as it is in dramas. Sometimes even more so. Yet good luck any comedy ever winning an Best Picture / Actor Oscar. While good comedic actors often make an easy transition to dramatic acting - yet the reverse is not always as guaranteed. Comedic acting is based on good timing and emotional responses, while dramatic acting is sometimes too affected and forced to make the jump to comedy.

Point being: Lower Decks nails that balance of chuckles versus character depth & growth; to the extent that the most recent season kinda had very few moments of outright hilarity compared with past runs - but its balance of good characters meant in the absence of gags, the cast inside the show held it up by dint of their own dimensionality & being relatable people. Everyone in Lower Decks feel like broadly real people dealing with real workplace problems, Borg Babies n' all. Whereas Discovery feel like meat puppets positioned to emote requisite dramatic moments so the show can beat you over the head saying this is a dramatic moment, its totes emotional you guys.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765529#Comment_121765529

Any time I see that new meme "he was in the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders just before she died" I think of the writing in Discovery.

It's a mix of terrible exposition and bad Jeff Winger monologues.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765644#Comment_121765644

Discovery wishes it was that bad it became a meme and source of (ironic) hilarity for the internet generation. At least then people might be taking an interest in the thing.

flazio

Why do some people ALWAYS turn anything Star Trek related into a Discovery bashing rant?

Take this fan for example.

https://twitter.com/MikeMcMahanTM/status/929932596519231488?t=jfm-f5SMNdwHNtzcElD_BA&s=19

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765951#Comment_121765951

The obsession is probably because deep down we can't escape from how the latter-day resurgence of Trek is kinda all down to Discovery. Had it flopped and failed as CBS' streaming lynchpin, then Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy and SNW wouldn't have happened - certainly no Strange New Worlds anyway, given it's a direct spin-off from Discovery.

And Disco has always played it so straight, so earnest at every juncture it kinda invites a constant ribbing for its poor execution. Plus it's the internet, negativity "sells". 🤷

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765987#Comment_121765987

Was discovery a ratings success? I liked its first 2-3 seasons. Season 4 terrible beyond belief. 5 seasons seems short like it's cancelled?

Was it really a case that the "success" of discovery propelled the creation of Picard?

Given the popularity of the Character Picard it was always on the cards that he would make a comeback. In my view it was too late. Stewart is too old. Yes he is in good condition for his age but looks way too old for a action series. They screwed up the characters around him to boot.

SNW is a spin off but I think it was because captain pike went down so well. He was clearly old school and I think the hetro element/the semi kirk swagger was at the core of his popularity but others would probably disagree.

Pike was a good well rounded character in contrast to the poor majority of discovery characters. I think that's why he got his spin off.

I don't think they created SNW because of the success of discovery but because of its failure

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766850#Comment_121766850

Practically all of the SNW is just you writing a narrative based on your personal bias.

For instance if they "created SNW because of the failure of Discovery" then why did Discovery get 3 more seasons.

Picard was probably more to do with Paramount milking their stronger IPs but it still relied heavily on effects and production in place for Discovery and probably would not have launched a limited series without that in place.

Discovery is crap, everyone here agrees so I don't see why so many people need to invent more reasons to kick it.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766850#Comment_121766850

The hetero stuff again? I'm not even gonna reply to the rest cos frankly this myopic obsession with No Homo is a bit of a tedious mantra.

Actually. I will say given Pike has been routinely referred to as Space Dad in terms of his traits I'm not sure where you get this idea of Kirk style swagger. Half the time he's in his room cooking and giving pep talks.

Go with god etc.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121767073#Comment_121767073

One person who definitely didn't have swagger was Paul Wesley.

A sad bit of proof that the likes of Michelle Paradise have a say in SNW. People can blab on about made up gender politics but a look at the likes of her or Akiva Goldman's CV will point to all that's wrong with Star Trek right now.

I'm actually surprised SNW is at all good looking at their record. The cast are doing a lot of heavy lifting in my opinion.

Bobtheman

I take slight offence at the accusation of no homo. I have no issue with homosexual characters. It's just when a cast doesn't have one hetro male i begin to worry

I grew up in 80s Ireland where any kind male traits were called homo. Where it was illegal.

I'm not homophonic it's just the absence of a hetro male in discovery was noticeable

But I'm not moses coming down from mount sini on the issue.

It's just a personal opinion

The males on discovery pre pike seemed like eunuchs practically bar the gay couple.

Perhaps it was really the lack of charismatic male leads I'm getting at. Rather than the introverted males that seemed to populate the discovery bridge.

A male trait is to swagger. Females can do it too. In this year of 2024 let's celebrate the ability to pick male or female traits without having to silo

Bobtheman

Anyway let's move away from the woke arguments. Lower decks and SNW get it right. The characters. The writing. The humour.

There should always be a streak of optimism in trek and discovery avoided it.

SNW and Lower decks have it.

Let's celebrate that

flazio

Congratulations to Gabrielle Ruiz (T'Lynn) on the birth of her second daughter.

https://people.com/gabrielle-ruiz-welcomes-baby-no-2-with-husband-philip-pisanchyn-exclusive-8580650

Bobtheman

My apologies. I disappeard up my own proverbial there.

Bobtheman

Deleted

JustAPoorDreamer

Love this show.

It's the best new Trek on T V.