General Arcade & Retro Chat' Special Championship Edition

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470201#Comment_120470201

Looking at the version of Doom they put out, compared to how Doom looks in the hands of romhackers, it's hard to ignore Sega being to blame really.

Focusing on this game, it wipes the floor with the Snes version, so Sega clearly had a short term Super Nintendo killer on their hands hardware wise. Playstation was there, and obviously superior, but was a bigger financial investment, compared to an addon component for an existing console. So I'd say both Nintendo and Sony had little responsibility here.

You have to wonder though, if the above version of Doom was actually the launch version...and other 32X software was similarly polished...would things have been different? Maybe not, but maybe it would have avoided being the colossal flop. All I've learned from Doom Resurrection is, the hardware worked, it actually did have potential, and the failure definitely lies in the software quality of the system.

Jack burton

Back then having a version of doom like that on an add-on console would have definitely shifted a **** ton of 32x consoles and maybe changed the console wars outcome a bit

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470571#Comment_120470571

I keep going back thinking about the Neptune. Imagine the Saturn release coincided with a cheaper alternative, the Neptune. The video above kinda makes me think polished software on the 32X could have actually hurt the Saturn, so maybe it was for the best. Could the Saturn have been improved by making it compatible with megadrive and 32x software? Would there even be a point in that?

I dunno, I think the poor 32X was in no man's land. Too close to the Saturn launch, and too late into the Megadrive's life...couple that with crap development and I don't think it could have ever succeeded, regardless of what happened.

Seemingly the 32X and Saturn share a lot of architectural similarities, so it really just doesn't fit anywhere. I still love it though, it's like a piece of internal development hardware that weirdly got a retail launch.

o1s1n

Two player split screen Deathmatch/coop Doom on a 32x back in the day could have been a similar event to Goldeneye in regards to console users first experience of Deathmatch type fps gaming.

Sure the only way you could play Doom like that on the ps1 was with a link cable, there was no split screen.

Definitely have to wonder what could have been.

o1s1n

Tried to give it a go this evening on actual hardware.

Booted it up, looked and sounded absolutely shite. Then realised I'd put over the original rom onto the SD and not the patched version. Oh well, nice comparison before I start! I'd forgotten just how bad it is. It's like playing a mid 2000s mobile phone version of the game.

Got the correct Rom on instead, booted it up.

Oh, dear, god. And to think I was impressed by the Road Rash Improved versions. This feels like absolute witchcraft. Had to keep looking down under the tv to remind myself it's coming out of my megadrive/32x.

I played the Ps1 version years ago and this really isn't very far off. The textures aren't as high res but to be honest you don't really notice all that much due to the smooth gameplay and animations.

Decided to try and fire up split screen two player fully expecting something similar to Sonic split screen with tails, slowdown central.

Nope, once again, lovely smooth gameplay with great utilization of screen space. You could legitimately play coop/Deathmatch and have a good time. It's more impressive to see actually then single player.

Was messing about with the settings and I see you can also use your Mega CD to play music.

Also able to play about with resolutions and remap the controls to get your strafing configured to your liking.

Just class all around, 100% worth a go!

The original port is just such a pile of shite in comparison.

Retr0gamer

The blame for the 32x version of doom was squarely with Sega. John Carmack pretty much showed up to Sega HQ and begged them to let him create a port. They had Carmack on board for heaven's sake. They needed the game out for launch and Carmack very reluctantly handed over the version that was released despite him not being happy with it and it needing more development time.

o1s1n

Quite interesting to read that the 32X version was actually based on the Jaguar port code, but it was then actually released before the Jaguar port due to the rushed delivery timeframe.

Looks like there were some prototypes of the 32X version found that were being worked on after the official release date, so it might have been due a revision at one point too.

Jack burton

Like it takes a long time for developers to really get to push systems to what they are capable of though doesn't it?

Look at the 360 launch titles and then some of the AAA end of life ones. There's a market difference.

The 32X being such a short lifespan nobody ever got to real grips with it I'd guess. The system was definitely pushed for the video aspect and trying to get 3D, after all that was the next big thing.

Sega 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast all suffered the same fate I think. Great hardware, capable of so much, but let down by software problems.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474740#Comment_120474740

True enough JB. I'd lump the Jag in there too, it's a system understood to be capable of a lot more than it was able to show.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472098#Comment_120472098

Saw a video about Doom ports, probably a DF retro one and it seems that jag port was the basis for most of the console ports for the longest time. It's pretty close to the PC release but there's some changes to geometry to help performance that give it away.

The story about the awful saturn port is so bizarre.

Inviere

For such an iconic game, it has a real knack for being the victim of godawful console ports.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476329#Comment_120476329

Saturn and 3DO were the only bad ones I can think of. The 32X conversion gets a lot of stick from a modern perspective but it was seen as a technical marvel at the time and quite playable in spite of the megadrive sound chip farting at you constantly. It reviewed well and made me want a 32X for a little bit at least.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476312#Comment_120476312

I only played the Saturn port for the first time very recently. Was scrolling through games so thought I'd throw on Doom, fully expecting something fairly close to the PC original.

I think I had more fun with the GBA version 😁

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476638#Comment_120476638

When I said look up the saturn Doom port story I meant 3DO. The developer Rebecca Heineman has spoken about it as well. Basically the 3DO port rights were bought by a chancer who set up a videogame company. Rebecca took the job after she was told they had the source code for Doom. What they actually had was a retail copy of the game and the company head thought you could just copy the files from that disc to a 3DO disc and it will be grand. Rebecca finally got the jaguar source very late but only had about 3 weeks to port the game.

As for the saturn port, apparently the developer had a really great version of it close to completion that used their own engine and was hardware accelerated by the saturn hardware, so it would have been pretty close to say an exhumed. Carmack however wanted the original source ported but also ported without hardware acceleration and totally in software. So a jaguar source port was rushed out. I guess he changed his mind after that with the PS1 and Quake saturn ports.

o1s1n

Wow, that sounds like some story re the 3DO version, I see Rebecca Heineman has a video about it on youtube called 'DOOM 3DO: Or how I Survived Hell' - says it all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_do6lL7ueQ&ab_channel=VintageComputerFederation

o1s1n

On a side note, does anyone else read 'ID Software' as 'EYE DEE' software? as in: 'show me your ID, mate?'

I only released it was ID as in Freudian ID in the last few years. In fact I still read 'ID Software' as 'EYE DEE' when I see it and would probably rather embarrassingly say it that way out loud if someone asked me who made Doom/Quake. 😂

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476862#Comment_120476862

It's Id not ID you philistine.

And yeah I still can't get used to Id and it will probably be ID forever for me.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476429#Comment_120476429

Jaguar, Saturn, 3DO, 32X (in comparison to the new release above), GBA, Snes...all honk. The PS1 I think was where it got better. The silly thing is, perhaps aside from the Snes and GBA (because they never should have released in the first place), all of those versions COULD have been substantially better than they were.

Retr0gamer

I don't know, the jaguar version is pretty good imo. SNES wasn't amazing but it was playable which is more than I can say about the Saturn and 3DO. Found the gba version a very good conversion but the lack of red blood was annoying.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120477450#Comment_120477450

The Jag version....missing maps, some maps gimped, missing enemies, no music....ok granted it's possibly among the top end of the console ports, but I feel the machine could have done better.

KeRbDoG

I mostly played Doom on the PS1. Compared to the PC version I always thought it was great and the PS1 also got 'Final Doom'

High point of Doom on the console, it had the 'Club Doom' map (I think the Saturn version also had it?).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov0wXwMSSGI

Just read the PS1 version also used the Jag port as a base.

Also remembered figuring out a swap trick to play it with the system link cable with a mate when we had only one disc. Great times, felt like hacking :)

Retr0gamer

PC definitely got final doom. Not a big fan of that one. It feels like a collection of fan made levels which is basically what it is. It's a bit too obnoxiously difficult with some maps having multiple boss enemies on them

sniper_samurai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120479933#Comment_120479933

It was two fan wads released commercially. TNT was a mess, Plutonia got Dario Casali hired by Valve and ended up working heavily on Half Life.

Inviere

I bit the bullet and installed TeknoParrot....thankfully it works flawlessly. Currently have Outrun 2 SP SDX & Sega Rally 3 working away perfectly. Outrun is just sheer Sega brilliance, possibly their best ever arcade racing game? Class altogether. Sega Rally 3 is probably the weakest of the series, but nice to have it up and running to complete the lineup.

o1s1n

Hadn't heard of TeknoParrot at all before, I will be checking that out :)

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490511#Comment_120490511

It'll undoubtedly be flagged by your antivirus protection. Seemingly there's some VMware protection coded into TeknoParrot (it's closed source, and the authors don't want it being reverse engineered), and this causes the flag. I've avoided it for years, but just chanced it today and it's perfectly fine (there's thousands of users of it, if it was malicious, we'd know about it by now.) There's a motherload of arcade dumps floating around the internet, which would provide the gaming fun you need.

dav09

Teknoparrot is great, if you need any help with it let me know I've hooked a couple of machines up to it directly over the past year or so. Also as for Sega Rally 3, try the classic mode and it's absolutely fantastic, it is a remake of the first game but is super fun head to head if you play multi player, much better than the normal mode.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490969#Comment_120490969

Interesting, will try that cheers (if I can ever stop playing Outrun 2 SP SDX that is!)

@o1s1n be sure to add an antivirus exclusion to the directory where you want to keep this stuff, otherwise the protection will nuke/delete files. It's safe to do, assuming you're getting TeknoParrot from the official bootstrap installer, and the games from a reputable source.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490969#Comment_120490969

Not heard of this but then I see Luigi's Mansion and After Burner Climax are supported.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491901#Comment_120491901

It's a compatibility layer, for many modern arcade systems. I've gotten Sega Rally 2 SP SDX (Sega Lindbergh) and Sega Rally 3 (Sega Europa-R) up and running today. There's quite a few other systems supported too.