Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

Graham

mrslancaster wrote: »

This can be temporary or while a house is in probate and afaik they still have to pay annual property tax.

A qualifying person can defer LPT.

The_Conductor

Graham wrote: »

A qualifying person can defer LPT.

My argument is no-one should be able to defer it- ongoing financial commitments to a property would focus one's mind and make it less likely that it would be left vacant.

Graham

I'd agree.

I'd also guess there's a very large electoral demographic that benefits most from this policy that almost guarantees it's not going to change significantly any time soon.

Expect any changes (if any) to be small and tightly targeted at the usual sectors.

We're probably going off topic slightly here, might see if I can split this off into a new thread.

landlord_jr

The fact of the matter is that landlords are exiting the business at a rate of knots, largely in my opinion, due to the PRTB.
In my experience , they are totally biased in favour of the tenant.
Getting rid of an undesirable tenant is a nightmare when PTRB get involved.
It took me 10 months to get a psycho out a few years back.

Airbnb is far more attractive from the Landlord's point of view. You get you place back in a few days, generally spotless. Tourist are far more respectful that regular tenants.
There is not a whole lot of difference in the money over the course of the year, particularly when you take into account bills and work input.

Graham

More money and occupants acquire almost no rights, it would be a little odd for a property owner not to prefer it.

Hence the necessity to regulate and/or enforce regulation.

Jamsiek

landlord_jr wrote: »

Airbnb is far more attractive from the Landlord's point of view. You get you place back in a few days, generally spotless. Tourist are far more respectful that regular tenants.

Not always the case. AirBNB is banned in my building due to the noisy parties and people coming and going at all hours of the night even mid week when people are trying to sleep.
Many of the regular tenants in our building have young families so you are wrong there too.
Maybe you live in a different type of area but your example doesn’t match my experience at all.

Selik

After an Airbnb corporate letting for all of 2019 (fantastic success) I'm now using Airbnb for stays over 14 nights only (within regulations) and Spotahome for stays over 30 days - all managed by Airsorted. Already have a few bookings lined up and it's looking good so far.

Was considering selling but might wait another year or two now.

I suspect alot of LLs will be doing something like this if they are not selling up.

DonnieCorko

Selik wrote: »

After an Airbnb corporate letting for all of 2019 (fantastic success) I'm now using Airbnb for stays over 14 nights only (within regulations) and Spotahome for stays over 30 days - all managed by Airsorted. Already have a few bookings lined up and it's looking good so far.

Was considering selling but might wait another year or two now.

I suspect alot of LLs will be doing something like this if they are not selling up.

We are doing the same. Very little hassle, slightly more money (although gaps between bookings probably evens it out) and less risk of nightmare tenants!

redcup342

landlord_jr wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that landlords are exiting the business at a rate of knots, largely in my opinion, due to the PRTB.
In my experience , they are totally biased in favour of the tenant.
Getting rid of an undesirable tenant is a nightmare when PTRB get involved.
It took me 10 months to get a psycho out a few years back.

Airbnb is far more attractive from the Landlord's point of view. You get you place back in a few days, generally spotless. Tourist are far more respectful that regular tenants.
There is not a whole lot of difference in the money over the course of the year, particularly when you take into account bills and work input.

Holiday rentals (lets me honest here AirBNB gives you f*ck all proteciton and their Renters Guarantee is not insurance) come with their own issues.

There are plenty of cases where AirBNB has been banned in Apartment buildings because they were being used as pop-up brothels, with the Gardai turning up to give the girls there information on "if they don't feel safe please contact X number"

Not really nice for your neighbors either having lots of different people coming and going or the Gardai turning up in the building.

And people can still cause a significant amount of damage, what happens exactly if some psycho blocks all the sinks and bath tub lets the taps run and takes off and the first thing you hear about it is your neighbor downstairs say theres water gushing in through his roof.

Yes you can get a nutjob long term tenant, but with Holiday Rental setups like AirBNB you also have a higher risk of someone causing an issue just by the sheer volume of people.

First you have to put in the claim and the guest has to agree to the damage, if you don't then you have to go via the resolution center.

As I did Airbnb in the past as a host and dealt with their claims process for Damage I can tell you the amount of time it takes to claim (e.g damage to furniture, Airbnb will want the original invoice for the furniture and then put their own depreciation value on it)


So yes while AirBNB was a better experience, it is not completely risk free either.

Dav010

redcup342 wrote: »

Holiday rentals (lets me honest here AirBNB gives you f*ck all proteciton and their Renters Guarantee is not insurance) come with their own issues.

There are plenty of cases where AirBNB has been banned in Apartment buildings because they were being used as pop-up brothels, with the Gardai turning up to give the girls there information on "if they don't feel safe please contact X number"

Not really nice for your neighbors either having lots of different people coming and going or the Gardai turning up in the building.

And people can still cause a significant amount of damage, what happens exactly if some psycho blocks all the sinks and bath tub lets the taps run and takes off and the first thing you hear about it is your neighbor downstairs say theres water gushing in through his roof.

Yes you can get a nutjob long term tenant, but with Holiday Rental setups like AirBNB you also have a higher risk of someone causing an issue just by the sheer volume of people.

First you have to put in the claim and the guest has to agree to the damage, if you don't then you have to go via the resolution center.

As I did Airbnb in the past as a host and dealt with their claims process for Damage I can tell you the amount of time it takes to claim (e.g damage to furniture, Airbnb will want the original invoice for the furniture and then put their own depreciation value on it)


So yes while AirBNB was a better experience, it is not completely risk free either.

While there have been a few articles in the papers/online, considering the numbers of people hosting on Airbnb, the bad experiences are minuscule. My own experience as a host has been wholey positive, no damage, no complaints from neighbours. My experience as a landlord is less positive with multiple episodes of damage and neighbour complaints.

If you do some research, you will see that additional private insurance to cover public liability and damage are advised. This isn’t too expensive and is available here through a few brokers.

Insurance companies will always depreciate the value of furniture, it would be naive to expect any insurer to pay the OPP for any damaged item.

Considering the difficulty with evicting tenants, it’s great that guests leave after a few days. Some risk for sure, but less risk than a bad tenant.

the_syco

Jamsiek wrote: »

Not always the case. AirBNB is banned in my building due to the noisy parties and people coming and going at all hours of the night even mid week when people are trying to sleep.
Many of the regular tenants in our building have young families so you are wrong there too.
Maybe you live in a different type of area but your example doesn’t match my experience at all.

From past threads on here, there were problem tenants that had parties, and didn't care about their neighbours. But getting rid of these would not be as easy as getting rid of AirBnB lets. Giving the LL a fine for a tenant that they can't get rid of doesn't solve the issue.

redcup342 wrote: »

And people can still cause a significant amount of damage, what happens exactly if some psycho blocks all the sinks and bath tub lets the taps run and takes off and the first thing you hear about it is your neighbor downstairs say theres water gushing in through his roof.

Yes you can get a nutjob long term tenant, but with Holiday Rental setups like AirBNB you also have a higher risk of someone causing an issue just by the sheer volume of people.

If the psycho nutjob is a long term tenant, it may take a year to evict them, and you may not be getting rent whilst they're wrecking your apartment.

Jamsiek wrote: »

I’m based in Vancouver where property is in high demand and out of reach of many people. Some investors were also buying property and leaving it empty so the government imposed an empty homes tax and it has been a great success as more properties have now become available.
Maybe that should happen in Ireland to address this problem.
It works elsewhere.

If Vancouver is anything like Toronto, getting rid of non-paying tenants is efficient, and get evicted by the sheriff. In Ireland, investors may see the tax as "cheaper" than a non-paying tenant.

Yellow_Fern

redcup342 wrote: »

Holiday rentals (lets me honest here AirBNB gives you f*ck all proteciton and their Renters Guarantee is not insurance) come with their own issues.

There are plenty of cases where AirBNB has been banned in Apartment buildings because they were being used as pop-up brothels, with the Gardai turning up to give the girls there information on "if they don't feel safe please contact X number"

Not really nice for your neighbors either having lots of different people coming and going or the Gardai turning up in the building.

And people can still cause a significant amount of damage, what happens exactly if some psycho blocks all the sinks and bath tub lets the taps run and takes off and the first thing you hear about it is your neighbor downstairs say theres water gushing in through his roof.

Yes you can get a nutjob long term tenant, but with Holiday Rental setups like AirBNB you also have a higher risk of someone causing an issue just by the sheer volume of people.

First you have to put in the claim and the guest has to agree to the damage, if you don't then you have to go via the resolution center.

As I did Airbnb in the past as a host and dealt with their claims process for Damage I can tell you the amount of time it takes to claim (e.g damage to furniture, Airbnb will want the original invoice for the furniture and then put their own depreciation value on it)


So yes while AirBNB was a better experience, it is not completely risk free either.

Brothel operators use long term rentals too. Nothing to stop them. At least if the brothel operator uses Airbnb, the landlord can drive out far quicker than a normal rental.

davindub

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Brothel operators use long term rentals too. Nothing to stop them. At least if the brothel operator uses Airbnb, the landlord can drive out far quicker than a normal rental.

How do you drive them out? Circuit court?

xckjoo

davindub wrote: »

How do you drive them out? Circuit court?

Undercut them in price. Free market economics

Jay Dee

In the beginning this was an interesting topic to follow, with genuine information on all options,

(a) " You get you place back in a few days, generally spotless. Tourist are far more respectful that regular tenants. "
(b) " After an Airbnb corporate letting for all of 2019 (fantastic success) I'm now using Airbnb for stays over 14 nights only (within regulations) and Spotahome for stays over 30 days - all managed by Airsorted. Already have a few bookings lined up and it's looking good so far."
(c) " If you do some research, you will see that additional private insurance to cover public liability and damage are advised. This isn’t too expensive and is available here through a few brokers. Insurance companies will always depreciate the value of furniture, it would be naive to expect any insurer to pay the OPP for any damaged item.


however, it has turned into one of the best examples of hyperbole I've come across in a while.

(a) " AirBNB is banned in my building due to the noisy parties and people coming and going at all hours of the night even mid week when people are trying to sleep."
(b) " some psycho blocks all the sinks and bath tub lets the taps run and takes off and the first thing you hear about it is your neighbor downstairs say there's water gushing in through his roof."
(c) " There are plenty of cases where AirBNB has been banned in Apartment buildings because they were being used as pop-up brothels"
(d) " Some Airbnb hosts won't want the hassle of breaking the law. Others will chance it and some of them will be brought to court and made an example of. "

After 79 pages !!!! it seems to be time to put it away.
Relevant information seems to be exhausted and all you get now is repeats... it was good while it lasted.....

Jay

cosybeach

in my experience a social tenant is a lot worst than a short time visitor as the laws in the state make virtually impossible to remove
the DCC have always been buying units in blocks under a private company name then sticking a tenant that had been a problem in other areas.
which is why i wouldn't touch a city center apartment Airbnb is the least problematic when it comes anti social behavior

marieholmfan

Jay Dee wrote: »

In the beginning this was an interesting topic to follow, with genuine information on all options,

(a) " You get you place back in a few days, generally spotless. Tourist are far more respectful that regular tenants. "
(b) " After an Airbnb corporate letting for all of 2019 (fantastic success) I'm now using Airbnb for stays over 14 nights only (within regulations) and Spotahome for stays over 30 days - all managed by Airsorted. Already have a few bookings lined up and it's looking good so far."
(c) " If you do some research, you will see that additional private insurance to cover public liability and damage are advised. This isn’t too expensive and is available here through a few brokers. Insurance companies will always depreciate the value of furniture, it would be naive to expect any insurer to pay the OPP for any damaged item.

however, it has turned into one of the best examples of hyperbole I've come across in a while.

(a) " AirBNB is banned in my building due to the noisy parties and people coming and going at all hours of the night even mid week when people are trying to sleep."
(b) " some psycho blocks all the sinks and bath tub lets the taps run and takes off and the first thing you hear about it is your neighbor downstairs say there's water gushing in through his roof."
(c) " There are plenty of cases where AirBNB has been banned in Apartment buildings because they were being used as pop-up brothels"
(d) " Some Airbnb hosts won't want the hassle of breaking the law. Others will chance it and some of them will be brought to court and made an example of. "

After 79 pages !!!! it seems to be time to put it away.
Relevant information seems to be exhausted and all you get now is repeats... it was good while it lasted.....

Jay

So the genuine information is pro airbnb and the hyperbole is anti airbnb


Hmmmmmm

seamus

I expect over time, AirBnB has become something of a race to the bottom in the same way that Uber did.

While at the start it was mostly being used and supplied by slightly wealthier individuals as something new and shiny, as it became more mainstream it became more aggressively about earning money for the suppliers and saving money for the purchasers.

Any sense of it being a more personal, hands-on business being done by people on the side, has been progessively eroded and lost. Hosts are now less personal with guests, and less rigorous about checking who they're rented to. Get them in, get them out, clean up, next one in.

That would explain why the thread starts with a positive outlook on AirBnB and ends with a negative one.

I've been hearing in general, consistently less buzz around AirBnB, less people willing to rent out their rooms or homes, less people willing to use AirBnB for short stays.
Maybe it's because of economic improvement, but my gut feeling is that AirBnB is on a downward slide unless they have some new product ideas up their sleeves.

Dav010

seamus wrote: »

I expect over time, AirBnB has become something of a race to the bottom in the same way that Uber did.

While at the start it was mostly being used and supplied by slightly wealthier individuals as something new and shiny, as it became more mainstream it became more aggressively about earning money for the suppliers and saving money for the purchasers.

Any sense of it being a more personal, hands-on business being done by people on the side, has been progessively eroded and lost. Hosts are now less personal with guests, and less rigorous about checking who they're rented to. Get them in, get them out, clean up, next one in.

That would explain why the thread starts with a positive outlook on AirBnB and ends with a negative one.

I've been hearing in general, consistently less buzz around AirBnB, less people willing to rent out their rooms or homes, less people willing to use AirBnB for short stays.
Maybe it's because of economic improvement, but my gut feeling is that AirBnB is on a downward slide unless they have some new product ideas up their sleeves.

Have to disagree with pretty much all of this.

Airbnb is not a race to the bottom, unless the bottom is less hassle, increased income, no risk with tenants.

I had my first experience with Uber in London recently when visiting family, I thought it was fantastic. Car was there within minutes, clean Prius, really nice driver, great value. I don’t see that as a race to the bottom.

Airbnb long ago left behind the principle on which it was set up, two guys offering a room in Los Angeles to visitors so they could make a few dollars. It is a business, big business.

I’m pretty sure I saw an article saying host and guest numbers have increased on Airbnb site, maybe it’s more your gut feeling is wishful thinking.

xckjoo

Dav010 wrote: »

Have to disagree with pretty much all of this.

Airbnb is not a race to the bottom, unless the bottom is less hassle, increased income, no risk with tenants.

I had my first experience with Uber in London recently when visiting family, I thought it was fantastic. Car was there within minutes, clean Prius, really nice driver, great value. I don’t see that as a race to the bottom.

Airbnb long ago left behind the principle on which it was set up, two guys offering a room in Los Angeles to visitors so they could make a few dollars. It is a business, big business.

I’m pretty sure I saw an article saying host and guest numbers have increased on Airbnb site, maybe it’s more your gut feeling is wishful thinking.

AirBnB is exactly like Uber in that the big innovation is side-stepping the regulations that were built up over years in the relevant industries (hospitality and commercial driving) and packaging them up in a technology wrapper. This saves everyone money as abiding by the regulations is costly. Unfortunately, those regulations were brought in for some reason (not all of the valid) so we'll slowly see them being reintroduced and profit margins shrinking. Regulatory reviews are probably needed but it's a risk averse field so they're slow to remove things that are already in place.


Full disclaimer: I don't think private residents should be used for short term letting unless it's owner occupied and the gig economy is massive exploitation of people trying to pay bills; but I have used both AirBnB and Uber in the past so not going to claim to be an angel. I also think that REITs are one of the worst things to ever happen to the property market.

LuckyLloyd

We’ll have more to talk about when the first enforcement action makes its way to court.

Jay Dee

marieholmfan wrote: »

So the genuine information is pro airbnb and the hyperbole is anti airbnb


Hmmmmmm

AirB&B is mentioned once in the genuine information..... It is mentioned in three of the four hyperbole comments.....
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Jay

Graham

Mod Note

If you have an issue with a post, report it. Otherwise please leave the moderation to the mods.

Thanks

Jay Dee

Graham wrote: »

Mod Note

If you have an issue with a post, report it. Otherwise please leave the moderation to the mods.

Thanks

Hi,

I don't have an issue with any post, as long as I am entitled to reply to it.
I felt that the response to my post was exactly what I was pointing out.
I didn't think this was an issue for mods.
Apologies if I have overstepped the mark.

Jay

seamus

seamus wrote: »

I expect over time, AirBnB has become something of a race to the bottom in the same way that Uber did.

While at the start it was mostly being used and supplied by slightly wealthier individuals as something new and shiny, as it became more mainstream it became more aggressively about earning money for the suppliers and saving money for the purchasers.

Any sense of it being a more personal, hands-on business being done by people on the side, has been progessively eroded and lost. Hosts are now less personal with guests, and less rigorous about checking who they're rented to. Get them in, get them out, clean up, next one in.

That would explain why the thread starts with a positive outlook on AirBnB and ends with a negative one.

I've been hearing in general, consistently less buzz around AirBnB, less people willing to rent out their rooms or homes, less people willing to use AirBnB for short stays.
Maybe it's because of economic improvement, but my gut feeling is that AirBnB is on a downward slide unless they have some new product ideas up their sleeves.

I'd have to disagree, Airbnb is still massively popular and caters to the needs of many people who traditional places to stay such as hotels and B&Bs do not.

I had relations staying in Ireland for two weeks at christmas, a family of 5 and they rented a beautiful almost brand new house on airbnb for the two weeks. Their visit would have been more of less impossible were it not for airbnb as staying in a hotel etc would not even nearly meet their needs leaving the cost cost etc aside.

utmbuilder

agree with the above poster, going on holidays I use airbnb, still cautiously however

but with 2 kids a hotel is not really a option,

but in fairness tourists eating up housing stock in a crisis is not on,

its a 10 year problem, hopefully will peak in the next 2 years, its a disgrace as a new homeowner paying 900 a month mortgage for a 3 bedroom house, its a disgrace.. and its a shift in society, in this decade you need to be a white collar professional or business owner earning at least 80,000 euro per year to buy a 3 bed terrace house for 260k

what did everyones mom and dads work at when they bought their houses?

anyone reading this in new houses who are your neighbours? probally not Irish, hard office working polish and other european couples working every hour under the sun more than likely.

complete shift in society

Its a wealth cap, classicism which will last for decades for those self employed who got lucky with the freak economics created by FG and L on bailouts caused by FF.

Yellow_Fern

utmbuilder wrote: »

agree with the above poster, going on holidays I use airbnb, still cautiously however

but with 2 kids a hotel is not really a option,

but in fairness tourists eating up housing stock in a crisis is not on,

its a 10 year problem, hopefully will peak in the next 2 years, its a disgrace as a new homeowner paying 900 a month mortgage for a 3 bedroom house, its a disgrace.. and its a shift in society, in this decade you need to be a white collar professional or business owner earning at least 80,000 euro per year to buy a 3 bed terrace house for 260k

what did everyones mom and dads work at when they bought their houses?

anyone reading this in new houses who are your neighbours? probally not Irish, hard office working polish and other european couples working every hour under the sun more than likely.

complete shift in society

Its a wealth cap, classicism which will last for decades for those self employed who got lucky with the freak economics created by FG and L on bailouts caused by FF.

But its ok for 'homeless' to eat up hotel rooms in a hotel crisis? Not all tourists are foreign. Many are irish

stevedublin

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

But its ok for 'homeless' to eat up hotel rooms in a hotel crisis? Not all tourists are foreign. Many are irish

well, hotel rooms are not part of housing stock for starters!

Yellow_Fern

stevedublin wrote: »

well, hotel rooms are not part of housing stock for starters!

That doesnt make any sense? But they are part of the hotel stock which is pushing visitors into Airbnb.

Dav010

utmbuilder wrote: »

but in fairness tourists eating up housing stock in a crisis is not on,

.

Never ceases to amaze me when people think it is the responsibility of private property owners to provide “housing stock” for renters/buyers.