Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

handlemaster

wally79 wrote: »

It has brought the property from the tourist market into the housing market

the cost of accommodation for tourists is a factor also. we need lower cost holidays for tourists to come and spend their money to create and maintain jobs here.

_Brian

I know what has happened local to us is government policy on excessive taxation has resulted in houses leaving the rental market.

Now there is a serious gap in the market, no family homes to rent at all, a scramble when one comes available and rents have risen.

Government policy is damaging the rental market rather than remedying it, the signs are everywhere.

Owning and renting a property is not an attractive option any more so houses are being lost to the rental market, as in any other market increased demand is increasing rents further.

_Brian

BIGT4464 wrote: »

Planning permission says a dwelling and not a hotel.

It’s not being used as a hotel, I’ll presume you’ve been inside or perhaps stayed in a hotel and know what a hotel is.

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

It’s not being used as a hotel, I’ll presume you’ve been inside or perhaps stayed in a hotel and know what a hotel is.

What the poster means is that it’s not in compliance with its planning. If built as a private dwelling, then that’s what it’s to be used for. Not as a holiday let.

Bigus

BIGT4464 wrote: »

Planning permission says a dwelling and not a hotel.

And what about the thousands off hotel rooms now being used as permanent accommodation, as direct provision centers contrary to their planning ? But government and councils flout their own rules if it suits them. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Fol20

DrumSteve wrote: »

Genuinely, which ones do you believe are excessive?

1)Rent pressure zone when increasing rent for new new or existing tenants > should be free capital market to naturally balance and attract new ll
2)Rent arrear situations yet you are still obliged to provide the service free of charge > the income should be garnished
3)Timeframes for evictions for rental arrears,anti social behaviour etc. > Should be no longer than 2-3 months and should be on a ll database for bad behaviour
4)Destroyed properties > should be able to garnish to wages and/or impact credit rating

Umaro

My heart breaks for the landlords getting pushed out of the hotel business.

These places should be homes, either rented or owned, not investment opportunities.

Fol20

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Or maybe, just maybe Johnny and Annie move out of their rented two bed apartment into a lovely three bed family home. One they’ve saved up for by getting up early and working.

Would you not say that tommy the local landlord has also had to get up early and work hard to be able to save up for the deposit for the rental and probably support his family and also provide extra cash so that the rental tips away until it’s paid off in 20years time yet at the same time has his legs chopped from beneath him with all the stuff the government bring in.

Fol20

Fol20 wrote: »

Would you not say that tommy the local landlord has also had to get up early and work hard to be able to save up for the deposit for the rental and probably support his family and also provide extra cash so that the rental tips away until it’s paid off in 20years time yet at the same time has his legs chopped from beneath him with all the stuff the government bring in.

If he owns the house outright after 20 years then it’ll have been well worth it. If he’s struggling, then it’s nit for him and he should cut his losses.

Fol20

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If he owns the house outright after 20 years then it’ll have been well worth it. If he’s struggling, then it’s nit for him and he should cut his losses.

In the same vane. Owning a house isn’t for everyone and some will always need to rent. With less properties to rent due to them being sold to owner occupiers, what do you think will happen?

Before you say it. Yes some buyers will be previous renters but the demand in renting is increasing not decreasing due to immigration and new younger generations wanting to leave the nest as well.

Stoner

_Brian wrote:

The government are demonising landlords to cover for their failure to provide enough housing, same old tune.

Plus they get huge capital gains revenue on rentals too. That seems to get left out a lot.

Graham

handlemaster wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/rise-in-new-airbnb-lets-as-landlords-flout-rules-despite-housing-crisis-38828598.html


The government haven't learned yet that it's not landlords that are the issue it's their inability to provide social housing to those s who really need it is the issue. We will continue to see the vote pleasing laws against landlords been introduced including this one in the report but this will just push landlords out of the business and refrain new comers which it requires to be a normal property market.

Interesting section mid-article:

local authorities warn they are gearing up for a crackdown in the coming months after getting funding in recent weeks to recruit dedicated staff and establish specialist enforcement units.

Dublin City Council got its allocation ahead of the others and has already begun 220 investigations into suspect lettings.

It said it had issued 15 enforcement notices so far and initiated its first prosecution. It expected those numbers to rise substantially over the next few months.

Dav010

Umaro wrote: »

My heart breaks for the landlords getting pushed out of the hotel business.

These places should be homes, either rented or owned, not investment opportunities.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, rental properties tend to be investment opportunities taken by owners/landlords. Who do you think is going to rent property if investors don’t, the Government?

I have a property on Airbnb, I don’t consider myself a landlord, and certainly not a hotel, I am however someone who doesn’t want to rent to tenants long term because it is too risky. I certainly don’t want sympathy.

The_Conductor

Dav010- out of curiousity- if the local authorities do a massive crackdown on Airbnb/booking.com etc (as seems to be imminent)- what are you going to do?
You could apply for a permit and see if its granted- let long term- or simply decide enough is enough and sell up.
I strongly suspect if I were in your position, that I'd be loathe to let the units on the longer term market, and if, as I suspect they're highspec units- it would make them easier to sell?

Genuinely interested in what your plans are.

DonnieCorko

Rent them for 14 days or more as is allowed by the law. A months rent on airbnb is about 20-30% more than on the market but you lose the days in between bookings so it evens out and you dont have the worry of a long-term tenant destroying the place. Its usually people who have just moved to the country with work etc that are looking for this length of stay.

Dav010

The_Conductor wrote: »

Dav010- out of curiousity- if the local authorities do a massive crackdown on Airbnb/booking.com etc (as seems to be imminent)- what are you going to do?
You could apply for a permit and see if its granted- let long term- or simply decide enough is enough and sell up.
I strongly suspect if I were in your position, that I'd be loathe to let the units on the longer term market, and if, as I suspect they're highspec units- it would make them easier to sell?

Genuinely interested in what your plans are.

We are considering selling this year, I have restricted Airbnb bookings to 3 months in advance. I don’t know if market will rise much further so it seems a good time to offload it. I would not rent again, I recently sold a rental property after tenants moved out and will do the same with remaining properties. And before anyone posts that it will be good to have another house for renting or first time buyers, the Airbnb house is unlikely to sell to an investor for rent or a first time buyer looking for a starter home.

TheChizler

Dav010 wrote: »

And before anyone posts that it will be good to have another house for renting or first time buyers, the Airbnb house is unlikely to sell to an investor for rent or a first time buyer looking for a starter home.

It adds to the pool of property available to people actually living in this country so it's a positive regardless.

landlord_jr

I agree entirely with Susan, Airbnb provides a wonderful service to young tourist in particular. It gives them a chance to visit Dublin in particular, at reasonable cost , especially when you see that crazy cost of Hotels here.
While I accept Airbnb does impact accomodation in Dublin , the fact of the matter is, getting rid of a difficult tenant is a real problem for Landlords, dealing with that useless shower of failed civil servants that is the PRTB is a nightmare.
It took me 10 months to get rid of a psycho tenant a few years back. That was ten months of me on the phone a number of times a week putting pressure on the PRTB to pull the finger out, I had girls in my place afraid of the guy. Unbelievably inept they are.

There isn't a huge difference in the money, particularly when you factor in the bills and extra work involved, the hassle free experience is a delight.
Getting my place back every week or so is a joy compared to getting it back in a state after tenants have moved.

Long live Airbnb, for me it's a life saver.

SusanC10 wrote: »

While I do understand the effect Airbnb can have on Rental Markets, Airbnb has been great for us as a family who like to travel.
We are at a stage now where we would need 2 Hotel Rooms and we can get a house/apartment ( 2 or 3 Bedrooms) on Airbnb mostly for less than the cost of one Hotel Room per night.
We have used it 12 times in total and only had 1 negative experience.
Regulation / restriction will increase the prices for Airbnb and reduce our options and for us it will mean less travel in particular city breaks.
We have only used it once in Ireland and it was a Holiday Home in Cork for less than €100 per night.
We will miss the freedom/flexibility it gives us.

spurious

Traditional is a bed in the spare room in someone's house.

mrslancaster

TheChizler wrote: »

It adds to the pool of property available to people actually living in this country so it's a positive regardless.

Unless the property is vacant then it's not available to anyone. I heard that some landlords are doing that because they were badly stung by tenants who stopped paying rent.

Graham

mrslancaster wrote: »

Unless the property is vacant then it's not available to anyone. I heard that some landlords are doing that because they were badly stung by tenants who stopped paying rent.

Are there many 'landlords' adding properties to their portfolio to keep them empty?

The_Conductor

Graham wrote: »

Are there many 'landlords' adding properties to their portfolio to keep them empty?

I'm not aware of *any* landlords adding properties to their portfolios at the moment- and personally know at least a dozen small scale landlords all of whom are at various stages in disposing of their property portfolios.

There was a time when a limited number of properties were being kept empty- as the asset inflation was a safer bet than prospective rental income and having to deal with the vagaries of the rapidly evolving regulatory regime.

Those days are gone.

The biggest store of vacant property in the country at the moment- is property deliberately being kept vacant by people availing of the 'Fair Deal' nursing home scheme- as there is nothing in it for them to let the family homes.......

mrslancaster

BIGT4464 wrote: »

Planning permission says a dwelling and not a hotel.

Just curious, does planning permission for a dwelling state how that house/apartment has to be used? Does it say it has to be used as a permanent residence/home & that it must be occupied for a certain number of days per year?

mrslancaster

Graham wrote: »

Are there many 'landlords' adding properties to their portfolio to keep them empty?

I don't know the answer to that sorry but I have heard of two houses not being put back on the rental market. And they were never used for airbnb only long term lets

The_Conductor

mrslancaster wrote: »

I don't know the answer to that sorry but I have heard of houses not being put back on the rental market. And they were never used for airbnb only long term lets

Because up until this year you could look forward to a 4-5% increase in asset appreciation without having to deal with the nitty gritty of actually dealing with tenants.

Unless some of these people experience a seachange in their mindsets- they'll simply sell-up, now that prices have peaked.

A vastly higher property tax- paid by the resident in the first instance or the owner if the unit is vacant, would put pay to those shenanigans.

I still don't understand why property tax isn't paid by the resident in Ireland- the same as anywhere else- if its a local tax, as its supposed to be, the resident is the one benefitting by the investment in services, facilities and amenities in the locale.

It might also convince some of those 'Fair Deal' owners of vacant property to let it for the first time- if there was a significant cost associated with keeping it vacant that they couldn't simply boot down the road.

Graham

+1

it would be a fairly brave/daft property investor to buy a property in the current market based solely on capital appreciation foregoing rental income.

I think the reality is most properties returned to the market (in anticipation of a short-term letting clampdown) will return to the residential property pool in one form or another.

Jamsiek

The_Conductor wrote: »

The biggest store of vacant property in the country at the moment- is property deliberately being kept vacant by people availing of the 'Fair Deal' nursing home scheme- as there is nothing in it for them to let the family homes.......

I’m based in Vancouver where property is in high demand and out of reach of many people. Some investors were also buying property and leaving it empty so the government imposed an empty homes tax and it has been a great success as more properties have now become available.
Maybe that should happen in Ireland to address this problem.
It works elsewhere.

The_Conductor

Jamsiek wrote: »

I’m based in Vancouver where property is in high demand and out of reach of many people. Some investors were also buying property and leaving it empty so the government imposed an empty homes tax and it has been a great success as more properties have now become available.
Maybe that should happen in Ireland to address this problem.
It works elsewhere.

I hear you.
You can't specifically target the group of people I have in mind though- it would have to be a general scheme equally applicable to all- a la the local property tax- but payable immediately, where you can't defer or offset it.

Jamsiek

The_Conductor wrote: »

I hear you.
You can't specifically target the group of people I have in mind though- it would have to be a general scheme equally applicable to all- a la the local property tax- but payable immediately, where you can't defer or offset it.

Yes. It was also imposed to combat money laundering by criminals. A lot of these empty properties also were not maintained to the detriment of the area.

mrslancaster

Jamsiek wrote: »

I’m based in Vancouver where property is in high demand and out of reach of many people. Some investors were also buying property and leaving it empty so the government imposed an empty homes tax and it has been a great success as more properties have now become available.
Maybe that should happen in Ireland to address this problem.
It works elsewhere.

your empty property tax only applies if a house in vacant for more than 6 months in the year or its being redeveloped and if it's within the city limits.
property tax in most other places including Vancouver includes waste collection but that's an extra charge in Ireland. And your property taxes can be reduced by various exemptions and grants, not so in Ireland.

a previous post said many vacant properties in Ireland are because older homeowner are in hospital or a nursing home. This can be temporary or while a house is in probate and afaik they still have to pay annual property tax.