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Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭ CoffeeBean2


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    There is a strong political incentive for a scalp......

    A scalp shall be forthcoming in my opinion.

    That it terribly racist! Surely our government knows better than to be racist?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭ mrslancaster


    …. You also do *NOT* need planning permission or change of use permission to open a B&B as long as you have four or less units!

    This was always my understanding - having a B&B of up to 4 rooms in your PPR was exempted development. Fire safety/food regulations was a separate thing but there was no need to apply for a change of use with the planning. Is a B&B still exempted development?

    Trying to understand the new regulations around homeshares / short term lets in a PPR. Is my understanding correct?

    1) The new regs only apply to RPZ's
    2) Under the new regs:
    • house shares - no restrictions
    • letting for 90 days while homeowner is absent - ok
    • over 90 days total in a year - homeowner must get PP
    • short-term lets are only for 1-14 days - so the 90 day total is 6 x 14 day lets with a 1 day break between
    3) Registration with council:
    • Form 15 to be sent by the homeowner to the local council in advance for any amount of days
    • Form 17 to be sent by the homeowner at the end of the year to confirm the total number of days used for short term lettings
    • Form 16 to be sent by the homeowner when the 90 days are exceeded
      Tenants who want to Airbnb spare rooms need to get owners consent and that must be included on the Form 15
    Should all Forms include a statutory declaration?

    Could someone explain this (from the FAQ's on the housing.ie website)
    Longer letting of 15 days or more do not fall within the scope of the new provisions and are permissible. A host can let a property to the same guest for periods of 15 days or more. :confused:

    Thanks in advance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    There is a strong political incentive for a scalp. Particularly when the public can see the residential properties being used as unlicensed hotels all around them. There is a political will here, a strong will. And there are definitely ways.

    A scalp shall be forthcoming in my opinion.

    I think apartments with a shared entrance will be enforced upon as some already have been. Own door units won’t be touched imo.

    One of my clients doing airbnb has taken on 2 new properties in the last week, landlords and these ‘letting managers’ arent concerned at all.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,784 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    I've a saved search from when I bought my house years and years ago that rarely gets anything anymore due to price rises

    Today three apartments with similar, decent grade fitouts appeared a relatively small distance from each other. Two are clearly vacant posession from the pictures, one has over-normal density of beds (double+single bunk in one room)

    Its a leap to assume they're even connected at all but there is a whiff of an AirBnB host getting out here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,352 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    L1011 wrote: »
    I've a saved search from when I bought my house years and years ago that rarely gets anything anymore due to price rises

    Today three apartments with similar, decent grade fitouts appeared a relatively small distance from each other. Two are clearly vacant posession from the pictures, one has over-normal density of beds (double+single bunk in one room)

    Its a leap to assume they're even connected at all but there is a whiff of an AirBnB host getting out here.

    I suppose some will automatically assume and even celebrate any sale they think is associated with Airbnb legislation, the reality is you haven’t a clue why they are being sold. They could be someone leaving the rental market, someone selling because property prices may have peaked, bank sales etc, but hey, let’s call it a whiff of Airbnb Host getting out of here.

    Double + single bed could be a family selling to upsize or student accommodation.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,784 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    And I suppose some will deny the legislation has any impact at all...

    A double+single bunk - double bed with a single above - is not a normal item of furniture in any circumstances but is very common in short term rental apartments. Its not in a student area; and double beds in that specific type of high density accommodation is almost unheard of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,352 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    L1011 wrote: »
    And I suppose some will deny the legislation has any impact at all...

    A double+single bunk - double bed with a single above - is not a normal item of furniture in any circumstances but is very common in short term rental apartments. Its not in a student area; and double beds in that specific type of high density accommodation is almost unheard of.

    I suspect bunk beds are a lot more common in kids rooms that adult short lets, but speculate away. Don’t forget, it is of course very uncommon for properties to be sold with vacant possession, must be an Airbnb.

    That last bit was sarcasm.
    L1011 wrote: »
    I'll let the poster state if they were being sarcastic rather than assuming.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ Fan of Netflix


    Some Air BnB hosts won't want the hassle of breaking the law. Others will chance it and some of them will be brought to court and made an example of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭ 1874


    …. You also do *NOT* need planning permission or change of use permission to open a B&B as long as you have four or less units!

    This was always my understanding - having a B&B of up to 4 rooms in your PPR was exempted development. Fire safety/food regulations was a separate thing but there was no need to apply for a change of use with the planning. Is a B&B still exempted development?

    Trying to understand the new regulations around homeshares / short term lets in a PPR. Is my understanding correct?

    1) The new regs only apply to RPZ's
    2) Under the new regs:
    • house shares - no restrictions
    • letting for 90 days while homeowner is absent - ok
    • over 90 days total in a year - homeowner must get PP
    • short-term lets are only for 1-14 days - so the 90 day total is 6 x 14 day lets with a 1 day break between
    3) Registration with council:
    • Form 15 to be sent by the homeowner to the local council in advance for any amount of days
    • Form 17 to be sent by the homeowner at the end of the year to confirm the total number of days used for short term lettings
    • Form 16 to be sent by the homeowner when the 90 days are exceeded
      Tenants who want to Airbnb spare rooms need to get owners consent and that must be included on the Form 15
    Should all Forms include a statutory declaration?

    Could someone explain this (from the FAQ's on the housing.ie website)
    Longer letting of 15 days or more do not fall within the scope of the new provisions and are permissible. A host can let a property to the same guest for periods of 15 days or more. :confused:


    Thanks in advance.
    sounds like a bureaucratic mess, in hope they have it online, I imagine they'll make a balls of it all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,227 ✭✭✭✭ Cookie_Monster


    L1011 wrote: »
    A double+single bunk - double bed with a single above - is not a normal item of furniture in any circumstances but is very common in short term rental apartments.

    is it, really? I would have thought it'd be more common with a LL renting to, for arguments sake, 8-10 Polish lads when the apartment is only designed for say 4.

    I've never seen a 2+1 bunk in any Air B&B I've been in.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭ Jay Dee


    Some Air BnB hosts won't want the hassle of breaking the law. Others will chance it and some of them will be brought to court and made an example of.

    You are psychic..... !!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭ mrslancaster


    I tried to get a bit more information about the Forms from the council for home-shares / short term lets. Still confusing :D.

    No forms or PP required for:
    Home-sharing or taking a lodger has not changed and can be any length of time.
    If its a short-term let of 15 days or more, then it is not considered STL and no forms need to be returned to the council as it is not covered by the new regulations - it is the same as taking a lodger.


    Owners need to send the Forms to the council for:
    STL is only for periods up to 14 days.
    Owners can have as many 1-14 day STLs in the year as they want provided they are living in the house.
    If the house is vacant, that is restricted to 90 days in total but has to be in blocks less than 14 days.

    How are councils going to monitor this - it's seems unrealistic unless they get the information from the booking platform directly.
    Can the likes of Airbnb share information with councils or is it only Revenue? What if the ads are not on booking platforms but guests are found some other way?

    PP needed if its a second property for any STL - at least that's straightforward :).


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,352 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    As expected, new legislation is being taken very seriously by both Hosts and County Councils.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/only-a-fraction-of-airbnb-landlords-register-under-new-letting-rules-1.3969974?mode=amp


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,950 ✭✭✭✭ LuckyLloyd


    I’m sure that will continue


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As expected, new legislation is being taken very seriously by both Hosts and County Councils.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/only-a-fraction-of-airbnb-landlords-register-under-new-letting-rules-1.3969974?mode=amp

    its like the tv licence, just asking them to call round and check... stay quiet and its much easier to avoid detection


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭ Edgware


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As expected, new legislation is being taken very seriously by both Hosts and County Councils.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/only-a-fraction-of-airbnb-landlords-register-under-new-letting-rules-1.3969974?mode=amp
    What did you expect? This is Ireland.


    We will stamp out abuse in creches.Of course you will
    We will stampt out drunken driving. Of course you will.

    The dogs may bark but the caravans still roll on


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,352 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    Edgware wrote: »
    What did you expect? This is Ireland.


    We will stamp out abuse in creches.Of course you will
    We will stampt out drunken driving. Of course you will.

    The dogs may bark but the caravans still roll on

    This is what I expected.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,778 ✭✭✭✭ Adalynn Unsightly Chalk


    Of course this idiotic nanny state rule is being ignored and will continue to be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,248 ✭✭✭✭ Spanish Eyes


    Plenty of laws, but no enforcement.

    That's why people drive in the bus lanes, break the lights, let out their properties on AB+B outside the rules and so on.

    All talk, no action really.

    Cannot be be beyond the powers of Councils to look up AirBB and see if they have applied for PP where relevant.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,751 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    The rule has been out what, one month?

    Some people are getting a little bit too excited in their attempts to try and poke holes.

    All we need is for a few chancers to be taken to the cleaners and things will improve. Give it time.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,352 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    awec wrote: »
    The rule has been out what, one month?

    Some people are getting a little bit too excited in their attempts to try and poke holes.

    All we need is for a few chancers to be taken to the cleaners and things will improve. Give it time.

    Rule? Surely you mean law.

    No one is trying to poke holes in the legislation, they are literally ignoring it, that goes for both property owners, and Council staff.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,751 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Rule? Surely you mean law.

    No one is trying to poke holes in the legislation, they are literally ignoring it, that goes for both property owners, and Council staff.

    Nah, the usual suspects are on here trying to convince us all how terrible this legislation is.

    We progressed from how it's terrible for tourists, to how it's outrageous that property owners do not have free reign to do whatever they like, to how it's now terrible because after 1 month there isn't total compliance and the courts aren't packed out the door with cases.

    Give it time. Someone (or hopefully many) will be made an example of, and we'll see an improvement.

    I don't think anyone out there really expected the legislation to solve the problem in 1 month.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,352 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    awec wrote: »
    Nah, the usual suspects are on here trying to convince us all how terrible this legislation is.

    We progressed from how it's terrible for tourists, to how it's outrageous that property owners do not have free reign to do whatever they like, to how it's now terrible because after 1 month there isn't total compliance and the courts aren't packed out the door with cases.

    Give it time. Someone (or hopefully many) will be made an example of, and we'll see an improvement.

    I don't think anyone out there really expected the legislation to solve the problem in 1 month.

    Maybe not, but considering this was announced over 6 months ago, not to even have the staff in place to enforce it pretty much says all there is to say about it’s importance.

    Pretty much no one is bothering about this. I think the legislation is terrible, one of many terrible laws regarding residential tenancies, but I’m not trying to convince you.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,751 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Maybe not, but considering this was announced over 6 months ago, not to even have the staff in place to enforce it pretty much says all there is to say about it’s importance.

    Pretty much no one is bothering about this. I think the legislation is terrible, one of many terrible laws regarding residential tenancies, but I’m not trying to convince you.

    No it doesn't.

    This is just wishful thinking on your part. It's government, things always move slowly.

    There could have been thousands of fines issued last month and the same people would still be trying to convince us all that forcing residential property to be used for residential purposes is terrible for people seeking residential accommodation.

    Enforcement will come. It will be terrible politics for there not to be. Everyone, bar the chancers who have been taking advantage, wants to see this enforced. There is literally no downside, the people who will complain know they haven't a leg to stand on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,778 ✭✭✭✭ Adalynn Unsightly Chalk


    awec wrote: »

    Enforcement will come. It will be terrible politics for there not to be. Everyone, bar the chancers who have been taking advantage, wants to see this enforced. There is literally no downside, the people who will complain know they haven't a leg to stand on.

    The vast majority of people either don’t care or don’t want this enforced from my experience. I think it’s being forgotten how many people use Airbnb and the lack of this option will p*ss off a lot of people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,352 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    awec wrote: »
    No it doesn't.

    This is just wishful thinking on your part. It's government, things always move slowly.

    There could have been thousands of fines issued last month and the same people would still be trying to convince us all that forcing residential property to be used for residential purposes is terrible for people seeking residential accommodation.

    Enforcement will come. It will be terrible politics for there not to be. Everyone, bar the chancers who have been taking advantage, wants to see this enforced. There is literally no downside, the people who will complain know they haven't a leg to stand on.

    Eh, thousands of fines? Go back a few pages and you will see a report where last month DCC confirmed they had no staff assigned to this. Also, go back a few more pages and you will see a link to an interview with DCC head of planning where he outlined the procedure for enforcement and difficulties with it. How could there possibly be any fines, never mind thousands, if there is no staff and no court records of prosecutions?

    Bad politics comes like rain in Ireland. Mind boggling.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,751 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    The vast majority of people either don’t care or don’t want this enforced from my experience. I think it’s being forgotten how many people use Airbnb and the lack of this option will p*ss off a lot of people.

    I think you’re suffering from a bout of delusion.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,751 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Eh, thousands of fines? Go back a few pages and you will see a report where last month DCC confirmed they had no staff assigned to this. Also, go back a few more pages and you will see a link to an interview with DCC head of planning where he outlined the procedure for enforcement and difficulties with it. How could there possibly be any fines, never mind thousands, if there is no staff and no court records of prosecutions?

    Bad politics comes like rain in Ireland. Mind boggling.
    I think my post just flew right over your head there...


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,352 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    awec wrote: »
    I think you’re suffering from a bout of delusion.

    No matter how much you would want to be right, the facts confirmed my CoCos say otherwise, people are ignoring it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,352 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    awec wrote: »
    I think my post just flew right over your head there...

    No, I think your contained a lot of wishful thinking, speculation and an attempt to scaremonger. None of it accurate, the Councils, the people in charge of enforcement, have confirmed people are ignoring it and they have no staff nor resources to do what you want.

    There could be, there wasn’t, there won’t be any time soon, there never might be.


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