Racing 92 v Ulster Match thread

clsmooth

Clegg wrote: »

Think some of you are overestimating what Zebo brought to the Ireland team. Decent player but nothing special and was quickly replaced by someone better.

Agree with this. He’s got a lot going for him, I think he’s a lovely second playmaker/passer which tends to go unnoticed, but not sure he is the incisive speedster cutting teams apart which seems to be how people saw/see him. It became lazy to use the term X-factor with his name in the same sentence. Would still love to have him as an option but it doesn’t appear that he has the head/mentality to be a top top player. Which is no slight on him, he plays with a smile on his face and is obviously enjoying himself playing alongside the likes of Teddy Thomas but he choose that ahead of winning a Grand Slam and going to the World Cup with a real chance of doing something special.

As an aside, was very impressed with Addison. First time watching him and he looks like a cracking player. Can see why Joe was keen to have him over. Just looks like a very balanced player with nice hands. He should be getting game time in the Italy/US games.

Buer

I hear Zebo killed a guy.

Impetuous and a bit of a dope but not a hanging offence. We like our double standards for Irish players and wanted Armitage shot for something similar. It was a childish reflex and he apologised. Fair play to him for doing so but he shouldn't have put himself in a position where he needed to. Done and dusted now but I know it will live long in many Irish supporters memories.

Much more pertinent would be his involvements or lack thereof for both of Ulster's tries where he demonstrated where he has always come up short.

Buer

I recorded the game and just watched it now. Ulster did not deserve that scoreline. It's hard to put my finger on precisely why they lost by such a margin but I'd somewhat put it down to Racing simply being ruthless and Ulster being quite disjointed without an ability to scramble effectively defensively. If Racing got a sniff, they put points on the board.

If I was going through the Ulster team, I could only really point the finger at the wingers as guys who didn't do themselves justice. Gilroy was very poor. Aside from knock ons, his inability to release the ball at critical times is so costly. Stockdale looked to have dipped his hands in grease with a couple of sloppy and costly knock ons. Kernohan had one also when he arrived regardless of how unsympathetic the pass was.

In the positive bracket, Lowry, Shanahan (as a true scrum half he's actually very good, lovely pass and got to the rucks quickly but Cooney has a far better all round game), Coetzee and Addison were very good. Reidy was excellent when he came on. Murphy worked hard and did some good work but Ulster will want more again.

I thought the front five and Timoney were workmanlike but ineffective. The set piece was not good enough and they were all lacking in any impact around the field and, at this level, that's simply not enough. Henderson was decent but I expect more from someone of his quality. That's somewhere that Racing had a massive advantage. Their forwards can all carry and move the ball without blinking.

Overall, a terrible result but not a terrible performance from Ulster. They left at least 3 tries out there. Some poor handling cost them dealy. Addison is a classy player but his final pass and decision making at times was a little off; I think he's better employed coming into the line from 15 as someone said above. Definitely going to be an Irish international though.

awec

Anyway, to move on from the irrelevant to the relevant, I thought Lowry was outstanding. This guy has a future.

Shanahan played very well too, his passing was crisp, didn't take the extra steps at a ruck that usually ends up in problems. Burns did well, McPhillips looked sharp when he came on. Treadwell made a few good tackles.

Big problems with the scrum and the lineout. We won't win anything until we can at least maintain parity in the scrum.

clsmooth

awec wrote: »

Anyway, to move on from the irrelevant to the relevant, I thought Lowry was outstanding. This guy has a future.

Shanahan played very well too, his passing was crisp, didn't take the extra steps at a ruck that usually ends up in problems. Burns did well, McPhillips looked sharp when he came on. Treadwell made a few good tackles.

Big problems with the scrum and the lineout. We won't win anything until we can at least maintain parity in the scrum.

Lowry does look a lovely player. Where do you reckon he’ll end up position wise? What did we make of Marty Moore?

awec

clsmooth wrote: »

Lowry does look a lovely player. Where do you reckon he’ll end up position wise? What did we make of Marty Moore?

Hard to know, he's only played 4 games. I think his size will dictate a lot, he's quite small. I think he'll get a lot of opportunities at 10, certainly sounds like he's Ulster's great hope in that position.



Moore did decent.

Buer

awec wrote: »

Shanahan played very well too, his passing was crisp, didn't take the extra steps at a ruck that usually ends up in problems. Burns did well, McPhillips looked sharp when he came on. Treadwell made a few good tackles.

I sped through any breaks in play so didn't hear what happened to Burns. I assume he was injured? Based on last week and the first half tonight, he should be in the Irish squad and Ross Byrne could be a little nervous (although I think he's still ahead of him).

McPhillips was alright I felt but he's very predictable. The flat skip pass loses its impact if you do it on 50% of your possessions. He needs to learn to size things up a bit more. I think Ulster lost a significant amount of variety and awareness when Burns went off. His break/offload for the first try and double crossfield kick for the second were very good, really showed an awareness of what was playing out across the field.

awec

Buer wrote: »

I sped through any breaks in play so didn't hear what happened to Burns. I assume he was injured? Based on last week and the first half tonight, he should be in the Irish squad and Ross Byrne could be a little nervous (although I think he's still ahead of him).

McPhillips was alright I felt but he's very predictable. The flat skip pass loses its impact if you do it on 50% of your possessions. He needs to learn to size things up a bit more. I think Ulster lost a significant amount of variety and awareness when Burns went off. His break/offload for the first try and double crossfield kick for the second were very good, really showed an awareness of what was playing out across the field.

I don't know what happened to Burns either tbh.


The second try of ours was a bit mad. Two cross field kicks in a row with no advantage, very rare you see that. Still surprised that Racing got caught out twice within 20 seconds by the same play.

Racing will make the final IMO, but through sheer brute force. A smart team that can match their pack will beat them (again).

Anthracite

Heymans wrote: »

Ulster have a handful of good new players in Lowry, Shanahan and Addisson

Might be time to put Gilroy out to grass though - he's an outstanding stepper, but there are so many holes in his game that he never filled in

awec

Anthracite wrote: »

Might be time to put Gilroy out to grass though - he's an outstanding stepper, but there are so many holes in his game that he never filled in

Gilroy is an excellent good Pro14 player, and adequate for Europe. His try scoring record speaks for itself.


He is not without flaws, but he is definitely important to Ulster. Had an off night tonight.

Buer

awec wrote: »

I don't know what happened to Burns either tbh.


The second try of ours was a bit mad. Two cross field kicks in a row with no advantage, very rare you see that. Still surprised that Racing got caught out twice within 20 seconds by the same play.

Yeah, was a bit bizarre. I suppose it was on and just came off on both occasions. Gilroy nearly blew the first one. Thomas is a great player but, f*ck me, he was absolutely nowhere on the second kick; he was 15m too far infield. His full back wasn't much better on those two kicks.

awec

Buer wrote: »

Yeah, was a bit bizarre. I suppose it was on and just came off on both occasions. Gilroy nearly blew the first one. Thomas is a great player but, f*ck me, he was absolutely nowhere on the second kick; he was 15m too far infield. His full back wasn't much better on those two kicks.

To be fair to Burns, he put the ball in the bread basket on both occasions. Gilroy should have popped it and it would have been a certain try, and he gave Stockdale an handy saunter over the whitewash.


And I don't want to sound like a broken record but I thought Nigel Owens had a very poor game tonight. The second Racing try, how he missed that knock on or judged it to be ok is just beyond belief.

Squidgy Black

Was there knock-ons in this match?

Buer

awec wrote: »

And I don't want to sound like a broken record but I thought Nigel Owens had a very poor game tonight. The second Racing try, how he missed that knock on or judged it to be ok is just beyond belief.

I thought he was alright overall but that was the worst decision I saw today. His declaration that he was happy with it confirms he saw it and simply refused to consider he was wrong despite it being queried.

I'd also question his TMO. He needs to tell him that it requires a review. The ball clearly went forward on the deck. Forget about red or yellow cards, that was the most blatant error by an official today.

bilston

Ah we shouldn't be moving Gilroy on at all. We don't have that luxury. Although give it 12-18 months and we may have a new wing whizzkid on our hands.

Like Buer I'm trying to figure out how we lost by 30 points. I guess not having a set piece hurts!

awec wrote: »

Anyway, to move on from the irrelevant to the relevant, I thought Lowry was outstanding. This guy has a future.

The thing to remember is his first two starts have been against Leicester and Racing in Europe. This isn't a 20 year being slowly drip fed into the Ulster team. He has been thrown well and truly in at the deep end and he has done very well.

There is a YouTube highlights reel of him playing for Inst and Banbridge, if you haven't seen it yet, check it out.

I'd also wager he is a future Ulster captain in the making.

awec

Buer wrote: »

I thought he was alright overall but that was the worst decision I saw today. His declaration that he was happy with it confirms he saw it and simply refused to consider he was wrong despite it being queried.

I'd also question his TMO. He needs to tell him that it requires a review. The ball clearly went forward on the deck. Forget about red or yellow cards, that was the most blatant error by an official today.

As I said earlier, Owens has form for this sometimes. At times he likes to show that he will make decisions without his TMO.

That made no sense at all though. The ball clearly went forward about half a metre, there is no question at all. How you can decide not to review it is just bizarre. The TMO should have been screaming in his ear.

prawnsambo

awec wrote: »

As I said earlier, Owens has form for this sometimes. At times he likes to show that he will make decisions without his TMO.

That made no sense at all though. The ball clearly went forward about half a metre, there is no question at all. How you can decide not to review it is just bizarre. The TMO should have been screaming in his ear.

Half a metre? That's 20 inches. Do you really believe that?

awec

prawnsambo wrote: »

Half a metre? That's 20 inches. Do you really believe that?

Yes. It wasn't even subtle, the ball rolled forward more than once.

And why are you converting to inches anyway? As if that makes it more unbelievable? I couldn't tell you what 20 inches is. Go metric or go home.

prawnsambo

awec wrote: »

Yes. It wasn't even subtle, the ball rolled forward more than once.

I saw it at the time, but never thought it went that far. I have it recorded, so I'll take another look.

bilston

Ok...just checked on the EPCR website...obviously there are still 3 games left for round 2, but Mike Lowry had made.more more metres than any other player in the competition so far, on 241 in 2 games (Lowe is on 184 so chances are he will best Lowry's total tomorrow). He is also joint 1st for the number of clean breaks with 5. That's pretty remarkable for a 20 year old playing his first two starts in Pro rugby and playing out of position.

On another note Addison tops the offloads charts with 8.

bilston

Owens refusal to check that "knock on" was bizarre.

Mind you he would have been well within his rights to card McBurney. I said yesterday that McBurney needs to keep up the b******Ness inhis game...but that was just dumb. Hartleyesque in fact.

Buer

prawnsambo wrote: »

Half a metre? That's 20 inches. Do you really believe that?

Yeah, I have it recorded. Definitely rolled forward about 18 inches. The fact that it remained behind the carrier made it look relatively static.

awec

prawnsambo wrote: »

I saw it at the time, but never thought it went that far. I have it recorded, so I'll take another look.

Look it up prawny, then come back to awec and I will forgive you for questioning me.

awec

Buer wrote: »

Yeah, I have it recorded. Definitely rolled forward about 18 inches. The fact that it remained behind the carrier made it look relatively static.

18 inches you say? Not 18.5? Maybe closer to 19?

Faugheen

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SimonZebo/status/1053725642464866304?s=19

"I'm not that kind of player."

So don't do it then. When you do it once you become that player.

prawnsambo

awec wrote: »

18 inches you say? Not 18.5? Maybe closer to 19?

Tough luck awec. Caught exaggerating again. :P

clsmooth

bilston wrote: »

Ok...just checked on the EPCR website...obviously there are still 3 games left for round 2, but Mike Lowry had made.more more metres than any other player in the competition so far, on 241 in 2 games (Lowe is on 184 so chances are he will best Lowry's total tomorrow). He is also joint 1st for the number of clean breaks with 5. That's pretty remarkable for a 20 year old playing his first two starts in Pro rugby and playing out of position.

On another note Addison tops the offloads charts with 8.

Yeah he looks very impressive! Can seem to beat a player with footwork like Carbery can, looking forward to seeing more from him!

ionadnapóca

bilston wrote: »

Owens refusal to check that "knock on" was bizarre.

Mind you he would have been well within his rights to card McBurney. I said yesterday that McBurney needs to keep up the b******Ness inhis game...but that was just dumb. Hartleyesque in fact.

Like Hartley?
He can’t be that thick surely?

Habitual

Faugheen wrote: »

"I'm not that kind of player."

So don't do it then. When you do it once you become that player.

Why not hold Sexton to the same values and morals. Screaming in ROG's face after D'Arcy scored in 2009. Has he become that player as you suggest in your post? Same with George North pointing at Genia when scoring for the Lions. People love to be outraged when it supports their agenda. Unfortunately there is an agenda by some against Zebo. Yeah probably not good enough to start for Ireland now with current options even if still playing in Ireland but a great rugby player and a joy to watch at times..

troyzer

Habitual wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

"I'm not that kind of player."

So don't do it then. When you do it once you become that player.

Why not hold Sexton to the same values and morals. Screaming in ROG's face after D'Arcy scored in 2009. Has he become that player as you suggest in your post? Same with George North pointing at Genia when scoring for the Lions. People love to be outraged when it supports their agenda. Unfortunately there is an agenda by some against Zebo. Yeah probably not good enough to start for Ireland now with current options even if still playing in Ireland but a great rugby player and a joy to watch at times..

Sexton was absolutely bollocked out of it for that. He STILL gets questions about it to this day.