Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

FrancieBrady

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Well as you're not going to answer I'll tell you, they're there to try and protect land that has been previously used as an illegal campsite by folk, and try and prevent them from regaining access.

Stating it is not bigotry, bigotry in this instance is the new word to hide behind when awkward truths are pointed out.

We all know that Johnny, we KNOW there are issues.

However somebody using a cheap generalisation that all travellers do that is what we are discussing.
You seem able to handwave it away because 'accidentally' it happens to let you have a go at travellers too.

A biased and quite sinister ploy on Casey's part here. It shouldn't be tolerated.

Danzy

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Oh, and Casey is right: Travellers are genetically Irish. They are not a different ethnicity. Here's a link to some research on the topic:

The research shows small but significant differences in the genomes of Irish Travellers and those of the settled population. It provides evidence, suggested by previous studies, that the genes of Irish Travellers are closer to the settled Irish population at a genetic level, as opposed to the common misconception that Travellers are a hybrid population of settled Irish and European Roma. The genetic distance that exists between Travellers and the settled population can be attributed to genetic drift, brought on by hundreds of years of genetic isolation combined with a decreasing population size.

With the genetic drift occurring due to Consanguineous marriages and population isolation, paper says.

http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?n=145&p=107&a=10373

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep42187

It is only in the last 20 years that people have started to say Travellers are a different ethnic group in Ireland.

Its deeply bizarre, refuted by science and divisive.

That is is so derisory is why It is pushed, the kick in these things seem to be in the catigation of those who think different.

Having people pretend that Tadgh Foley on the fiddle on Saturday night is a different ethnicity to me or the others in the session is ****ing bizarre.

The difference is the class one, the well heeled activists running with this and those who they preach about or to.

Galwayguy35

dav3 wrote: »

In Ireland they are.


Casey: “You know, I was surprised beyond belief. I thought we’d got way beyond this. I didn’t even realise that there had been this law passed last year giving special ethnic status to…”

Lawlor: “You didn’t know that Travellers were recognised in Irish law? Under Irish law?”

Casey: “I didn’t. I hadn’t realised that.”




https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/q-a-what-does-ethnic-recognition-mean-for-irish-travellers-1.2993526

What does ethnicity mean?

Defined as belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition, ethnicity is not the same as nationality or place of birth. Your ethnicity or cultural background means the group you descended from. An ethnic group is made up by people who share certain characteristics such as culture, language, religion and traditions.

Who are the Irish Traveller community?

Research carried out in 2010 research found there were 36,224 Travellers in the Republic and 3,905 in Northern Ireland. Some 2,700 Travellers did not have access to running water, according to the All Ireland Traveller Health Study carried out in the same year and the Traveller suicide rate is six times the national average for men and women.

A study carried out by the Royal College of Surgeons and the University of Edinburgh revealed last month that that Irish Travellers emerged as a distinct ethnic group long before the Great Famine. The study found that while Travellers originally descended from the general Irish population, they are now very distinct from it.

The research suggests that Traveller origins may in fact date as far back as 420 years to 1597, while the author of the study said travellers are today more genetically different from the settled Irish as are the Spanish.

So they are as Irish as the rest of us in other words seeing as we are all descended from the same people.

This genetically different is a fancy way of saying a population of about 40000 come from years of marrying close relatives, it's no wonder they have health problems with that happening generation after generation.

Calhoun

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We all know that Johnny, we KNOW there are issues.

However somebody using a cheap generalisation that all travellers do that is what we are discussing.
You seem able to handwave it away because 'accidentally' it happens to let you have a go at travellers too.

A biased and quite sinister ploy on Casey's part here. It shouldn't be tolerated.

You don't act like it and nor do most on your side and its why people are so vocal. You may be looking to deflect this to a conversation of generalization as it fits the narrative of ignoring the bad behavior. Most others want to talk about how citizens of Ireland are being left behind.

I honestly think if nothing changes the only thing we can do going forward is to go back to vigilantism, that should be a big fear for all involved because once the kettle finally boils over thats where it more than likely will go.

Its also funny that because Casey dare speak out about a sacred cow in Irish society the leader of the country things he has the right to tell people who to vote for and who not to. Democracy already pretty much undermined with the near godly anointing of his holiness Michael.

Edward M

"Big fat gypsy weddings", " Big fat gypsy communions", fairly ethnic stuff alright.
The travellers in Ireland now are about as close to the traditional image of travellers as black is to white!
I'll never forgive my wife and daughter for making me change the soccer so they could watch that.

irishproduce

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We all know that Johnny, we KNOW there are issues.

However somebody using a cheap generalisation that all travellers do that is what we are discussing.
You seem able to handwave it away because 'accidentally' it happens to let you have a go at travellers too.

A biased and quite sinister ploy on Casey's part here. It shouldn't be tolerated.

It seems its the only way to get a conversation on it started.

FrancieBrady

Calhoun wrote: »

You don't act like it and nor do most on your side and its why people are so vocal. You may be looking to deflect this to a conversation of generalization as it fits the narrative of ignoring the bad behavior. Most others want to talk about how citizens of Ireland are being left behind.

I honestly think if nothing changes the only thing we can do going forward is to go back to vigilantism, that should be a big fear for all involved because once the kettle finally boils over thats where it more than likely will go.

Its also funny that because Casey dare speak out about a sacred cow in Irish society the leader of the country things he has the right to tell people who to vote for and who not to. Democracy already pretty much undermined with the near godly anointing of his holiness Michael.

As soon as he is elected the conversation stops.

And if you wish to continue it you will have to do what people should have been doing if it is the huge 'plague' they claim. Lay it at the doors of those who should be doing something, who should be enforcing the law and who should be providing resources to law and order instead of stripping rural Ireland bare of them.
But I suspect that people will go back behind their keyboards because that might be too much engagement for them.

Andrew Beef

Rather than just highlighting the problem, I’d like to hear Casey propose a solution to the Traveller issue; e.g. total elimination of the Traveller way of life.

The amount of misinformation out there is very frustrating; on the one hand, we’re subjected to people like John Connors and Margaret Cash ranting about their lot in life. Then science (e.g. that RCSI document) tells us that much of the health and mortality issues stem from the high levels of inbreeding. What’s the answer to that? Forced settlement. These people are not Native Americans or Eskimos; they are just Irish people misbehaving.

Calhoun

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As soon as he is elected the conversation stops.

And if you wish to continue it you will have to do what people should have been doing if it is the huge 'plague' they claim. Lay it at the doors of those who should be doing something, who should be enforcing the law and who should be providing resources to law and order instead of stripping rural Ireland bare of them.
But I suspect that people will go back behind their keyboards because that might be too much engagement for them.

Who knows maybe it might kick off a conversation and inspire people. Up until now its seem like fighting a loosing system, i do know though that your kind would like for people to just shut up and leave them to it.

That for me would be the wrong way as it will fester and fester until something really bad happens.

dav3

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So they are as Irish as the rest of us in other words seeing as we are all descended from the same people.

This genetically different is a fancy way of saying a population of about 40000 come from years of marrying close relatives, it's no wonder they have health problems with that happening generation after generation.

They are Irish, as was said in the article "ethnicity is not the same as nationality or place of birth".



As for the rest, you'll need to contact Professor Gianpiero Cavalleri, Associate Professor in Human Genetics at RCSI's Department of Molecular and Cellular Therapeutics with your theory.




https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0209/851399-irish-traveller-genetics/

A study of Irish Traveller genetics has revealed for the first time that they split socially from the settled population here much earlier than thought.

The research by scientists from the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, University College Dublin, the University of Edinburgh and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, discovered that the divergence began 360 years or approximately 12 generations ago.

It is thought that there are around 30,000 people living here who are members of the Travelling community, representing 0.6% of the total population.

But a lack of documentary evidence on their history meant the origin of Irish Travellers was not clear, and the subject of debate.

Previously it had been thought that Travellers had become displaced between 1845 and 1852 as a result of the Great Famine.

The study also found that genetically Travellers are closely connected to Irish settled people, scotching theories that they descended from other population groups including European Roma gypsies.

The researchers found that any genetic disparities between Travellers and settled people here are largely due to them remaining genetically isolated for several centuries and their numbers decreasing.

In fact this social isolation has led to a few marked differences in the genomes of Irish Travellers when compared to the settled community.

"The findings confirm that the Irish Traveller population has an Irish ancestry and this comes at a time where the ethnicity of Travellers is being considered by the Irish State," said Professor Gianpiero Cavalleri, Associate Professor in Human Genetics at RCSI's Department of Molecular and Cellular Therapeutics in a statement.

"It is important to emphasise that although Irish Travellers show clear features of a genetic isolate, they are genetically very close to settled people in Ireland."

"It is also interesting to observe that the isolation of Travellers from settled people predates the Great Famine.

"However it's important to emphasise that our research estimates the beginning of the social divergence of the Travelling community, rather than their origin."

DNA samples from 42 Irish Travellers were compared with that of 143 European Roma, 2,232 settled Irish, 2,039 British, 5,964 European and 931 individuals from the rest of the world for the study.

Several genetic dating methods were also used to estimate the period when the travelling community began to split genetically from the settled population in Ireland.

The research also established the degree to which marrying someone to which you are genetically related, a practice common among the Traveller community, can impact on the genetic blueprint, leading to an increased prevalence of certain disease including galactosaemia.

Subtle genetic differences were also found between speakers of the Cant and Gammon dialects of the Traveller language.

The findings, published in the Nature journal Scientific Reports, come three months after the Taoiseach committed to begin the process to have a distinct Traveller ethnicity officially recognised.

The study has been welcomed by Traveller groups, including Pavee Point, which said it confirmed what many had thought for some time about Traveller ethnicity pre-dating the famine.

FrancieBrady

Calhoun wrote: »

Who knows maybe it might kick off a conversation and inspire people. Up until now its seem like fighting a loosing system, i do know though that your kind would like for people to just shut up and leave them to it.

That for me would be the wrong way as it will fester and fester until something really bad happens.

My kind? Someone who wants a fair and inclusive society where people aren't subjected to bigoted and demeaning generalisations? That kind?

If there is a 'plague' like problem and not one TD is 'telling the truth' like Peter that says a lot about people and our system. But mainly the people imo.

Have people lost the ability to protest properly and favour a mouthpiece who goes off like a rusty Gatling gun at every turn?

ThunbergsAreGo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

His letter has been on Twitter for a few hours now and has gotten 146 likes.

Not seeing it for Peter. I can see why Paddy Power moved him out to 80/1

Thanks, I didn't know that he had made statement

Calhoun

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My kind? Someone who wants a fair and inclusive society where people aren't subjected to bigoted and demeaning generalisations? That kind?

If there is a 'plague' like problem and not one TD is 'telling the truth' like Peter that says a lot about people and our system. But mainly the people imo.

Have people lost the ability to protest properly and favour a mouthpiece who goes off like a rusty Gatling gun at every turn?

Thats how you would like to be seen but your far from it mate, getting off on the self righteousness of it all like most virtue signalers. However when something comes along that isn't on narrative it needs to be banned.

There is a problem and most TD's are lying because they are too afraid of the outcome from your kind if they told the truth. Just this week comments from Charlie Flanagan from before travelers were made an ethnic group surfaced and he had to apologies for them.

You cannot protest because of you and your ilk, as anyone who puts their head above the parapet like Casey faces character assassination.

Suckit

#Mydisgust.

JeffKenna

Calhourn hit the nail on the head there..the notion of free speech doesn't really exist. Say anything that doesn't fit the narrative and next thing you're being compared to a Nazi.

Suckit

JeffKenna wrote: »

Calhourn hit the nail on the head there..the notion of free speech doesn't really exist. Say anything that doesn't fit the narrative and next thing you're being compared to a Nazi.

Now apply it to the opposition.
By the way, there is no free speech in Ireland.

Danzy

Calhoun wrote: »

Thats how you would like to be seen but your far from it mate, getting off on the self righteousness of it all like most virtue signalers. However when something comes along that isn't on narrative it needs to be banned.

There is a problem and most TD's are lying because they are too afraid of the outcome from your kind if they told the truth. Just this week comments from Charlie Flanagan from before travelers were made an ethnic group surfaced and he had to apologies for them.

You cannot protest because of you and your ilk, as anyone who puts their head above the parapet like Casey faces character assassination.

I won't vote for Casey but he is being hammered by the new Priest Class, they'll close down everyone else eventually and then turn on each other.

The need is to control others, drive group conformity, control discussion.

Much bigger than Casey being a knob.

Suckit

Danzy wrote: »

I won't vote for Casey but he is being hammered by the new Priest Class, they'll close down everyone else eventually and then turn on each other.

Doubt anyone will vote for Casey except his family and close friends.

Varik

JeffKenna wrote: »

Calhourn hit the nail on the head there..the notion of free speech doesn't really exist. Say anything that doesn't fit the narrative and next thing you're being compared to a Nazi.

Even any notion of it will go soon as the government isn't pushing the blasphemy referendum with any notion of free speech or equality, they doing it to replace constitutional back law with a purely legislative one where they won't need popular support.

The UKs Orwellian level of what counts as "hate speech" won't be anything compared to what get's pass here.

tayto lover

Suckit wrote: »

Doubt anyone will vote for Casey except his family and close friends.

I know you don't believe that. You're really worried too.

Andrew Beef

Suckit wrote: »

Danzy wrote: »

I won't vote for Casey but he is being hammered by the new Priest Class, they'll close down everyone else eventually and then turn on each other.

Doubt anyone will vote for Casey except his family and close friends.

I intend to vote for Casey.

Because he is telling it as it is in relation to things like the Traveller issue.

And because the other candidates are so weak.

And because of the hypocrisy of the incumbent.

SEPT 23 1989

Suckit wrote: »

Doubt anyone will vote for Casey except his family and close friends.

Wait and see

Calhoun

Suckit wrote: »

Now apply it to the opposition.
By the way, there is no free speech in Ireland.

Apply what to the opposite? I think a core difference in Irish society is right now or maybe always there is a general group think, so you have both politicians and the media all going from the same hymn sheet. There has most definitely being a concerted effort to shut him down. Leo Varadkar told people to not vote for him.

Suckit wrote: »

Doubt anyone will vote for Casey except his family and close friends.

I will now and i know a good few others that have also changed their mind.

JJayoo

Calhoun wrote: »

I will now and i know a good few others that have also changed their mind.

I think he will get a lot of the vote

Suckit

For presidency?

pumpkin4life

Varik wrote: »

Even any notion of it will go soon as the government isn't pushing the blasphemy referendum with any notion of free speech or equality, they doing it to replace constitutional back law with a purely legislative one where they won't need popular support.

The UKs Orwellian level of what counts as "hate speech" won't be anything compared to what get's pass here.

I took a snapshot of this a couple of days ago. That ain't a word of a lie, sad to say.

Calhoun

JJayoo wrote: »

I think he will get a lot of the vote

I don't think he will get that much of the vote, the wind is not behind him and there has been too much effort on trying to sabotage him. I think the best we can hope for is a protest vote but i think it will just be looked down upon by the powers at be no matter what it shows.

FrancieBrady

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't think he will get that much of the vote, the wind is not behind him and there has been too much effort on trying to sabotage him. I think the best we can hope for is a protest vote but i think it will just be looked down upon by the powers at be no matter what it shows.

Maybe if people stopped playing the 'oppressed by liberal lefties' card and got out and lobbied their TD's or elect new ones to represent them properly, things might change.
But again, I suspect they won't because that requires effort.

Varik

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't think he will get that much of the vote, the wind is not behind him and there has been too much effort on trying to sabotage him. I think the best we can hope for is a protest vote but i think it will just be looked down upon by the powers at be no matter what it shows.

If he lost by 1 vote, the powers that be would claim it as a great victory and rejection of all those not nice thoughts.

Best that can come out of this is a push at the next election.

Casey should be canonised, long overdue that freeloading spongers are part of national discourse.