NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2018-19 Thread

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Where did I say I’m being persecuted exactly? I didn’t, and that’s an enormous leap to make from what I said.

Re. “Hater” - I have been called this many, many times on here in relation to almost any criticism I have leveled against one particular player.

Re. your comment on playing smarter, I get that in theory but Westbrook even with his flaws is a Top 20/Top 15 player in the league. As for his 5/20 shooting, pick any player who’s had a bad night shooting and they’ll look bad. He gets overly criticised IMO, and overly blamed. PG is clearly injured, that’s a large part of the problem here. And they’re top heavy with no depth....that’s not his fault.

LeBron loses and it’s because he has no support. LeBron wins and it’s all him.

It seems that the opposite narrative is the case for Russ.....lose and it’s his fault, win and it’s a team effort. Go figure.

I inferred it, it didn't seem like a leap tbh. No reference to you being a hater during your 2 month hiatus to my knowledge nor was there any reference to you being one since your return.
Yet, 2/6 of your posts made reference to you being viewed as a hater, that strikes me as someone with a view that they're being persecuted for their views.

Apologies, my fault for uttering LBJ he who's name shall not be spoken, it won't happen again, let's try keep this thread free of that name during the playoffs.

Russ was rightly criticised because outside of shooting 5/20 he made some very poor decisions. He has a tendency to do as such, anyone who watches basketball knows that. He's a 29% 3pt shooter but he was pulling up from 30ft. That's poor no matter what way anyone tries to square it.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

I inferred it, it didn't seem like a leap tbh. No reference to you being a hater during your 2 month hiatus to my knowledge nor was there any reference to you being one since your return.
Yet, 2/6 of your posts made reference to you being viewed as a hater, that strikes me as someone with a view that they're being persecuted for their views.

Apologies, my fault for uttering LBJ he who's name shall not be spoken, it won't happen again, let's try keep this thread free of that name during the playoffs.

Russ was rightly criticised because outside of shooting 5/20 he made some very poor decisions. He has a tendency to do as such, anyone who watches basketball knows that. He's a 29% 3pt shooter but he was pulling up from 30ft. That's poor no matter what way anyone tries to square it.

I’d have been pretty shocked if I was a topic of conversation when I was off boards (voluntarily as well as enforced); similarly I’m only back a few days - why would I be the focus of the thread?

Having said that, you’re surely not going to dispute the fact that I have repeatedly been called a hater on here?

I go back to my repeating of what Simmons said about 90/10 guys; in that we focus too much on the 10% of things he does badly, ignoring the 90% he does well. Even Simmons (a long time Russ critic) has come around this year and expressed admiration for his game and has gone as far as to say that the Westbrook criticism has gone so far that he’s now actually under-rated.

I’m not suggesting he doesn’t take bad shots or make bad decisions - go back through my posts and you'll see how heavily I have criticised him in the past (it’s easy enough to do through the search function) for both of the above. I genuinely feel however the criticism has gone too far in this case, certainly in comparison to the leeway given to other players in the league for their failings (on and off the court btw).

At the end of the day it’s just opinions. You’re entitled to yours and I’m entitled to mine.

Hitch2222

I really hope this guy continues to produce content, unsurprisingly Steph & Harden were the two players which declined most in the post season though to be fair to Steph a large part of that decline was injury.

One I was surprised to see decline in the post season was Larry Bird, his production was still great & he suffered with injuries but it's certainly not the narrative that underlines his performances.

Some guys as expected improved post season CP3, Kobe, LBJ, original IT but the big improvers were MJ, Reggie & Hakeem who were 1,2,3 into the post season. Horry a huge scoring efficiency improvement too.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

I really hope this guy continues to produce content, unsurprisingly Steph & Harden were the two players which declined most in the post season though to be fair to Steph a large part of that decline was injury.

One I was surprised to see decline in the post season was Larry Bird, his production was still great & he suffered with injuries but it's certainly not the narrative that underlines his performances.

Some guys as expected improved post season CP3, Kobe, LBJ, original IT but the big improvers were MJ, Reggie & Hakeem who were 1,2,3 into the post season. Horry a huge scoring efficiency improvement too.

Thanks for that, will have a look later.

If you get a chance and have an hour to kill, have a look at the "No Left" video I posted earlier this week.

ButtersSuki

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Ben Simmons just TORCHED the Nets, goddamn!
31 points incl. 9/11 FTs. 3 blocks, 2 steals.

The most impressive part there is that he went 9/11 from the foul line, that's the standout for me given his difficulties from the line. Someone said on one of the pods I listen to this week (I think it was John Gonzalez on one of The Ringer NBA pods) that Simmons is the type of player that can have a night like that, or score 7 points, and neither would surprise you - and it's a fair comment.

K.O.Kiki

What I find amazing is that the whole "sag off Ben" thing barely works, it's literally just giving him time to build up speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Am2cJ0mRkY

Angliru

He's responded very well after a poor game 1. I think he's always going to be a polarising player in the eyes of fans because of the hype since high school, his style of play, his inability to shoot thus far and the fact he's banging the likes of Kendall Jenner. Great player to watch when he's on it though.

Enjoyed this to say the least:
https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1119057509329670145

ButtersSuki

Quote feature not working....

Just to clarify, the Simmons I was referring to as the author of the 90/10 and Russ is under-rated was Bill Simmons, not Ben Simmons.

Philly's Simmons I suspect won't be in Philly after his next contract for a variety of reasons. I liked Colin Cowherd giving him a specially created tongue-in-cheek but yet accurate "Least Improved Player" Award recently. It's inexcusable IMO. I get he'll never be a 40% from 3 guy, but he's shown nothing by way of improvement.

ButtersSuki

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

What I find amazing is that the whole "sag off Ben" thing barely works, it's literally just giving him time to build up speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Am2cJ0mRkY

One play, one example......look at all the examples of him being stopped by it. If it wasn't working teams wouldn't be doing it. It's not going to work every single time you know, and when it doesn't work you'll see gaps as wide as an ocean like that.

Somewhat related, when you see how good he is at full speed it makes you wonder why they're not a complete run and gun, fastbreak all night team. Embiid is what's stopping that to a degree to be fair. Simmons with a team of runners and shooters around him would be an interesting watch.

Hitch2222

I think Simmons will end up a perennial MVP candidate in the near future, he's only 22, he had an acute injury and not the type of regular soreness that impacts Embiid.
Outside of that early setback he's been extremely durable, he plays the toughest position in the NBA for a young player:

FG% has risen from 54% to 56%

FT% from 56% to 60% on 25% more attempts

Compare that to his contemporaries in the same rookie class(es):

Mitchell has become less efficient though higher volume

Tatum has become significantly less efficient from 3pt range and from the field in general though higher volume.

I assume I don't need to mention Ingram, Lonzo, Brown etc to highlight that Simmons has made minimal strides but strides nonetheless while many of contemporaries have regressed or stagnated at best.

qwabercd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Quote feature not working....

Just to clarify, the Simmons I was referring to as the author of the 90/10 and Russ is under-rated was Bill Simmons, not Ben Simmons.

Philly's Simmons I suspect won't be in Philly after his next contract for a variety of reasons. I liked Colin Cowherd giving him a specially created tongue-in-cheek but yet accurate "Least Improved Player" Award recently. It's inexcusable IMO. I get he'll never be a 40% from 3 guy, but he's shown nothing by way of improvement.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Quote feature not working....

Just to clarify, the Simmons I was referring to as the author of the 90/10 and Russ is under-rated was Bill Simmons, not Ben Simmons.

Philly's Simmons I suspect won't be in Philly after his next contract for a variety of reasons. I liked Colin Cowherd giving him a specially created tongue-in-cheek but yet accurate "Least Improved Player" Award recently. It's inexcusable IMO. I get he'll never be a 40% from 3 guy, but he's shown nothing by way of improvement.

Haha not sure if you saw my deleted post. Re-read seconds after I posted and hungover me was struggling to figure out how to delete the post!

Edit - and on the contrary I've managed to somehow quote on the double.

Hitch2222

PG13 still doesn't look up to it, apparently reports suggest he has a torn labrum, not quite Kobe bad but definitely impacting his ability to shoot.

Westbrook bounces back after referring to his own playing in Game 2 as "unacceptable". OKC with a fantastic result but I don't think they'll win this series with PG13 not 100%.
Also they shot 52% from deep while Blazers shot 38% as standard, OKC won't be able to keep up close to that rate especially without one of their best shooters.

I'll be happy enough to see Portland go through as will Popovich, could we see a Rockets & Spurs final? I'd imagine Pop would fancy his chances of outcoaching D'Antoni if they made it that far.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

PG13 still doesn't look up to it, apparently reports suggest he has a torn labrum, not quite Kobe bad but definitely impacting his ability to shoot.

Westbrook bounces back after referring to his own playing in Game 2 as "unacceptable". OKC with a fantastic result but I don't think they'll win this series with PG13 not 100%.
Also they shot 52% from deep while Blazers shot 38% as standard, OKC won't be able to keep up close to that rate especially without one of their best shooters.

I'll be happy enough to see Portland go through as will Popovich, could we see a Rockets & Spurs final? I'd imagine Pop would fancy his chances of outcoaching D'Antoni if they made it that far.

Imagine a 7 seed Spurs making the Finals? The fact it's even a possibility is mad. Heard during the week on some pod the only 2 teams to make the Finals that weren't a 1 or 2 seed were the Rockets (as a 6 seed but defending champs, in Olajuwon era) and the Knicks as an 8 (but it was the short season). I personally don't believe that stat to be 100% accurate, but I'm too busy to check it now anyway.

I don't know on the OKC Portland series, I honestly think it could go either way and won't be surprised with whoever wins. Whoever loses however has some big decisions to make roster wise into next year.

Osmosis Jones

PG has said a few times that his shoulder is fine, in Game 2 he hit a shot and started jokingly stretching it out to show that it's okay, and then last night when the game was well over and the teams were dribbling out the clock he took the ball and threw down a huge dunk contest-like dunk, you don't do that if you're injured.

I hate to complain about refs but last night felt like a pretty obvious "let's extend the series" performance. Obviously OKC shot really well from deep but they also shot 39 FTs to Portland's 24. It was a 4 point game going into the 4th quarter and then Portland got themselves in the bonus with a bunch of touch fouls within 3 minutes of the 4th quarter. PG shot 3-16 from the field but still managed to get 22 points because he got 17 free throws.

Also Lillard had a crazy 3rd quarter, Portland were down 16 and he just took over, scored 25 points in the quarter, the playoff record is Sleepy Floyd's with 29.

ButtersSuki

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

PG has said a few times that his shoulder is fine, in Game 2 he hit a shot and started jokingly stretching it out to show that it's okay, and then last night when the game was well over and the teams were dribbling out the clock he took the ball and threw down a huge dunk contest-like dunk, you don't do that if you're injured.

I hate to complain about refs but last night felt like a pretty obvious "let's extend the series" performance. Obviously OKC shot really well from deep but they also shot 39 FTs to Portland's 24. It was a 4 point game going into the 4th quarter and then Portland got themselves in the bonus with a bunch of touch fouls within 3 minutes of the 4th quarter. PG shot 3-16 from the field but still managed to get 22 points because he got 17 free throws.

Also Lillard had a crazy 3rd quarter, Portland were down 16 and he just took over, scored 25 points in the quarter, the playoff record is Sleepy Floyd's with 29.

Ah come on now....he's clearly injured, the only question is what is the injury.

rushfan

Celtics sweep the Pacers.

Osmosis Jones

Westbrook has somehow outdone his 5-20 performance in Game 2 with 5-21 in Game 4. 3-1 down now on his way back to Portland for Game 5, staring at the likelihood of 3 first round exits in a row since KD left.

Play of the night here, career highlight for CJ McCollum:

ButtersSuki

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Westbrook has somehow outdone his 5-20 performance in Game 2 with 5-21 in Game 4. 3-1 down now on his way back to Portland for Game 5, staring at the likelihood of 3 first round exits in a row since KD left.

Play of the night here, career highlight for CJ McCollum:

Yeah they're done, they're not coming back form 3-1 down even if they win Game 5 in Portland.

It's funny you picked that play as sure it's a great play as he made it, but it's exactly the kinda play that you (in the universal sense) rightly would criticise a player for. It's a bit hero-bally, not 100% there for sure but certainly blurring the lines. Just because he made the shot doesn't make it a good shot. McCollum is not Lillard or Curry (In wouldn't criticise those players in particular for that shot, but if he misses that it's unquestionably a bad play. I noticed the Inside The NBA guys criticised this play too btw, so it's not just me!

ButtersSuki

Moneyball etc.

So I finished reading Moneyball for the first time this weekend (I've had it for years but never got around to it) and then re-watched the movie to see the differences between the two (there are many). If you haven't read it or even seen the movie, I'd recommend both. Normally I always read the book first but for some reason here I ended up doing them in reverse. Some knowledge of baseball would be handy for the book, none is required for the movie (it's on Netflix btw).

By coincidence Morey was on Simmons' pod again last week and it's not the first time I've heard him talk about soccer and how he'd like to attack it in the same way that he has basketball - it really would be fascinating to see this. I've heard Morey speak countless times now and I think it's fascinating how he's revolutionised the game. He's a really interesting guy - and I say this despite how much I dislike the way Houston play.

I've been thinking of going to the Sloan Analytics Conference for a couple of years now, this makes me want to do so even more. The fact that it's in Boston would hopefully allow me to go a Celtics game too, which would be nice.

killwill

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Yeah they're done, they're not coming back form 3-1 down even if they win Game 5 in Portland.

It's funny you picked that play as sure it's a great play as he made it, but it's exactly the kinda play that you (in the universal sense) rightly would criticise a player for. It's a bit hero-bally, not 100% there for sure but certainly blurring the lines. Just because he made the shot doesn't make it a good shot. McCollum is not Lillard or Curry (In wouldn't criticise those players in particular for that shot, but if he misses that it's unquestionably a bad play. I noticed the Inside The NBA guys criticised this play too btw, so it's not just me!

Just to add to that actually being a bad shot, Patrick Beverley too the same shot and bricked it against the Warriors. Defensive rebound, fast break, and an easy 2 points for the Warriors.
A layup is still the best option, with the best chance of converting.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Moneyball etc.

So I finished reading Moneyball for the first time this weekend (I've had it for years but never got around to it) and then re-watched the movie to see the differences between the two (there are many). If you haven't read it or even seen the movie, I'd recommend both. Normally I always read the book first but for some reason here I ended up doing them in reverse. Some knowledge of baseball would be handy for the book, none is required for the movie (it's on Netflix btw).

By coincidence Morey was on Simmons' pod again last week and it's not the first time I've heard him talk about soccer and how he'd like to attack it in the same way that he has basketball - it really would be fascinating to see this. I've heard Morey speak countless times now and I think it's fascinating how he's revolutionised the game. He's a really interesting guy - and I say this despite how much I dislike the way Houston play.

I've been thinking of going to the Sloan Analytics Conference for a couple of years now, this makes me want to do so even more. The fact that it's in Boston would hopefully allow me to go a Celtics game too, which would be nice.

He's the topic of the opening chapter of another Michael Lewis book The Undoing Project about the work of Kahneman (wrote Thinking Fast & Slow) and Amos Tversky.

It's a great book and the other book mentioned above is my fav ever, focused on the area of Behavioural Economics, Decision Theory and their overall relationship. It's excellent and the opening chapter on Morey and his rise in basketball is quite interesting.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

He's the topic of the opening chapter of another Michael Lewis book The Undoing Project about the work of Kahneman (wrote Thinking Fast & Slow) and Amos Tversky.

It's a great book and the other book mentioned above is my fav ever, focused on the area of Behavioural Economics, Decision Theory and their overall relationship. It's excellent and the opening chapter on Morey and his rise in basketball is quite interesting.

Thanks for those - will definitely add them to the reading list.

Osmosis Jones

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Yeah they're done, they're not coming back form 3-1 down even if they win Game 5 in Portland.

It's funny you picked that play as sure it's a great play as he made it, but it's exactly the kinda play that you (in the universal sense) rightly would criticise a player for. It's a bit hero-bally, not 100% there for sure but certainly blurring the lines. Just because he made the shot doesn't make it a good shot. McCollum is not Lillard or Curry (In wouldn't criticise those players in particular for that shot, but if he misses that it's unquestionably a bad play. I noticed the Inside The NBA guys criticised this play too btw, so it's not just me!

Yeah it's one of the those "wtf are doing shooting that? oh okay good shot" moments but he's been shooting nearly 52% from 3 this series so it's hard to get too mad at him for taking it.

Also this is only saying what we all already know but they're never getting far with Russ like this:

https://twitter.com/royceyoung/status/1120173884916080640?s=19

The Blazers bench was screaming at Kanter to "back up! back up! back up!" as Westbrook had the ball around the 3-point line. Westbrook got off the 3, and rattled it in and out.

https://twitter.com/royceyoung/status/1120170572275646464?s=19

As Al-Farouq Aminu checks in, Blazers assistant David Vanterpool tells him, "Chief, don't help on Russ. Let him shoot." Westbrook has tried to stick with the playmaking in this fourth quarter despite the deficit.

Westbrook started the game shooting well and let it get to his head, he ended up shooting 0-10 in the second half with 1 point off a FT.

ButtersSuki

Funny tweet I saw earlier:

Russel Westbrook: 3
Rim: Next Question


Less funny was some idiot trolling Royce Young about his dead daughter. Only mention it as I saw him (Young) quoted above. FFS, you'd think people would know where the line is?

Osmosis Jones

Suns sack Kokoskov, Devin Booker is about to have his 5th coach in 4 seasons. I have no idea what Sarver was expecting from Kokoskov in one year when he was inheriting the worst team in the NBA. His whole hiring was bizarre in the first place, he's Doncic's old coach, as soon as they hired him pretty much everybody assumed they'd be drafting Doncic but they took Ayton instead.

ButtersSuki

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Suns sack Kokoskov, Devin Booker is about to have his 5th coach in 4 seasons. I have no idea what Sarver was expecting from Kokoskov in one year when he was inheriting the worst team in the NBA. His whole hiring was bizarre in the first place, he's Doncic's old coach, as soon as they hired him pretty much everybody assumed they'd be drafting Doncic but they took Ayton instead.

Daft. Not taking Doncic was dumb esp. as he'd have known how good Luca was, but Sarver is ex-Arizona and apparently wanted Ayton as he's Arizona too. It was well telegraphed they were taking Ayton but it made no sense then and doesn't now that they've fired the coach. Stupid decision based on emotion and school ties rather than smarts. Doncic and Booker would have been one hell of backcourt, at least offensively.

Why hire him if you're not going to let him decide things like that (and yes I know GMs and Front Office largely pick the talent), or at least have significant input into it.

Osmosis Jones

Damian Lillard just had one of the best single playoff games of all time, I'm not exaggerating. 34 points in the first half, 50 on the night (with splits of 52/55/75), and he got his final 3 with this absolutely ridiculous buzzer beater to win the series and send OKC packing.

ButtersSuki

Watched the first half and then fell asleep. He was nuts in the first half, thought he’d end up with 60+.

Osmosis Jones

Also on the other end of things Evan Turner finishes the series with a total of 3 points on 1-11 shooting. $36m to go.

chopperbyrne

The dream is over.

Hopefully Orlando push on and are better next year.