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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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    #2222
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The Daily Express and BBC have figured it all out.


    There is a massive FEUD (all caps because..) going on between Varadkar and Coveney.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1039953/Leo-Varadkar-Simon-Coveney-Fine-Gael-Irish-Border-Brexit-news-Laura-Kuenssberg


    I knew it!


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    #2223
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    What concerns me is that Arlene is relatively reasonable and pragmatic compared to the rest of the DUP. She's also, very unusually both from and representing a border region of Northern Ireland. She's also not really part of that Free Presbyterian theocracy. Arlene, at least according to anything I've read about her, is a member of the Church of Ireland.

    Getting a deal with Arlene is one thing, getting that deal past the DUP's hardcore is another thing entirely.

    She is former UUP and from what I know, that has always been held against her in the DUP inner circle. Arlene would have agreed to the backstop last December, it was the Westminster MPs that put a stop to it. They are running the show in the DUP when it comes to Brexit.

    Arlene may be willing to buy into whatever face saving "compromise" the EU is offering, but I doubt she will get it past her MPs.


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    #2224
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,293 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7639843/france-fast-track-lorry-deal-ireland/
    France agrees deal to fast-track Irish lorries through Calais in move that could see Brit truckers forced to queue for hours

    Being part of a club has its benefits.


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    #2225
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Gintonious wrote: »
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7639843/france-fast-track-lorry-deal-ireland/



    Being part of a club has its benefits.

    The rhetoric coming out of the UK towards Ireland is becoming increasingly aggressive and hostile
    The MP for Dover Charlie Elphicke added: “It beggars belief that the Irish think they can have special access through Dover just because the French say so.”


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    #2226
    Angry bird
    Closed Accounts Posts: 808 ✭✭✭Angry bird


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The Daily Express and BBC have figured it all out.


    There is a massive FEUD (all caps because..) going on between Varadkar and Coveney.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1039953/Leo-Varadkar-Simon-Coveney-Fine-Gael-Irish-Border-Brexit-news-Laura-Kuenssberg


    I knew it!

    I'm not sure what that article is supposed to be about, it lacks any sort of conclusion. Feud something something, Germany also something something


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    #2227
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    We are not shouting you down - we are just pointing out that you were wrong in December and you are still wrong. Anything the UK passed into law last December could simply be amended or repealed by Parliament at any time since. It would have made no difference whatever to the current situation.

    The important point for us from phase 1 was that the UK and EU sides agreed that the WA will include a backstop. And despite the brexiteers wailing, that is still true. If there is a WA, it will include the backstop. The only way the UK can avoid the backstop is to crash out in March, which would, to put it mildly, be very expensive for them.


    The point that I am making, that some at least seem to be ignoring, is that to maintain an open north/south border May is going to have to face down the DUP and others at some point.
    In December we supposedly had the backing of all our E.U. partners to achieve that to our satisfaction or no movement to Phase 2 talks. Talks which the U.K government were at the time desperate to move too. In light of what we assumed she was agreeing too I would not have thought it unreasonable to suggest to her that, especially with the cards we were supposedly holding, to face them down then as a show of good faith.



    As off now I do not see we are in any better a position than we were prior to December. Or bargaining chip of holding up negotiations is gone with them now 95% complete with the border being still the sticking point and in tandem we are coming under pressure from the majority of our E.U partners to accept an E.U - wide digital tax which will imho have implications for our corporation tax rate in attracting businesses to set up, or even remain here.



    I fully accept if there is a WA it will include some arrangement as regards a north/south border. Whether that is the "cast iron guarantee" being what many here appear to believe, remains to be seen. As to the the "politically bullet proof" for me at least that took a bit of a hammering when the U.K. politically amended their Customs Bill to make it illegal for N.I. to be outside of the U.K. customs territory.


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    #2228
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Gintonious wrote: »
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7639843/france-fast-track-lorry-deal-ireland/



    Being part of a club has its benefits.

    The rhetoric coming out of the UK towards Ireland is becoming increasingly aggressive and hostile
    The MP for Dover Charlie Elphicke added: “It beggars belief that the Irish think they can have special access through Dover just because the French say so.”
    I won't believe a single word the sun prints,it's an awful paper which will sink to any depths to get a story.


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    #2229
    kowtow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    lawred2 wrote: »
    The rhetoric coming out of the UK towards Ireland is becoming increasingly aggressive and hostile

    I don't know how much - if any - truth there was in the original article but does it actually help a lot for the French to allow Irish lorries to travel faster through Calais?

    For one, it would mean that part-loads from the UK (and back-loads destined for it?) would involve Irish lorries falling in with their UK comrades in the slow lane... but more to the point it would surely invite similar treatment on the UK side at Dover?


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    #2230
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    kowtow wrote: »
    I don't know how much - if any - truth there was in the original article but does it actually help a lot for the French to allow Irish lorries to travel faster through Calais?

    For one, it would mean that part-loads from the UK (and back-loads destined for it?) would involve Irish lorries falling in with their UK comrades in the slow lane... but more to the point it would surely invite similar treatment on the UK side at Dover?

    Is there anything that even leaves Calais for Ireland?

    A nonsense of a story if the 'fast tracking' is for boats bound for the UK...


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    #2231
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,518 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The Daily Express and BBC have figured it all out.

    There is a massive FEUD (all caps because..) going on between Varadkar and Coveney.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1039953/Leo-Varadkar-Simon-Coveney-Fine-Gael-Irish-Border-Brexit-news-Laura-Kuenssberg

    I knew it!

    That is grasping at straws to suggest massive feud (no surprise from the Express).

    I listen to that podcast every week and it surprises me how so much of it is obvious "opinion based" rather than fact. Especially so given the high profile roles the particpants hold. I'd love if they had tried to discuss that topic last week when Tony Connolly was on the show.

    On the Express, think it's fair to say they have an agenda.

    express.jpg


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    #2232
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Tell me how wrote: »
    That is grasping at straws to suggest massive feud (no surprise from the Express).

    I listen to that podcast every week and it surprises me how so much of it is obvious "opinion based" rather than fact. Especially so given the high profile roles the particpants hold. I'd love if they had tried to discuss that topic last week when Tony Connolly was on the show.

    On the Express, think it's fair to say they have an agenda.

    express.jpg

    The text under the picture is hyperbolic jingoism at its finest.


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    #2233
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,518 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    The text under the picture is hyperbolic jingoism at its finest.

    They were right about one thing.

    "The outcome of the referendum will either be the trumpet blast of freedom or the death knell of our nation"


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    #2234
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Tell me how wrote: »
    They were right about one thing.

    "The outcome of the referendum will either be the trumpet blast of freedom or the death knell of our nation"

    It was almost as if they wanted to hedge their bets so that they could turn around and say "we told you so" after Scotland votes for Independence, NI votes for unification and the remainder heads off to the IMF for a bail out..

    "See.... we told you it would be the death knell of our nation"


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    #2235
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1058398668531949569

    Interview with Dominic Raab.

    Very interesting that he actually does not rule out regulatory checks at ports here.

    His tune has changed. Last week it was no regulatory barriers under any circumstances.

    That would break the DUP red line reiterated only today.


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    #2236
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,568 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    According to Arlene Foster...

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1058382190256549889


    That link seems to have disappeared, what was it about?


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    #2237
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭flutered


    kowtow wrote: »
    lawred2 wrote: »
    The rhetoric coming out of the UK towards Ireland is becoming increasingly aggressive and hostile

    I don't know how much - if any - truth there was in the original article but does it actually help a lot for the French to allow Irish lorries to travel faster through Calais?

    For one, it would mean that part-loads from the UK (and back-loads destined for it?) would involve Irish lorries falling in with their UK comrades in the slow lane... but more to the point it would surely invite similar treatment on the UK side at Dover?
    irish shipping has to go via the low countrys, uk via france, the reason for the uk going via france is the sanatiry inspections in dunkirk etc


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    #2238
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭flutered


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Fash is correct.  An Act of Parliament committing the UK to keep the border open could be repealed at will.  

    The best guarantee of an open border that you can get is to give the UK something it really, really wants in return for a commitment to keep the border open.  That way, if the UK closes the border, it does so at great cost to itself.

    This is why demanding that the UK give a unilateral commitment to keep the border open is a stupid strategy.  Even if the UK were to agree, it could later walk away from that commitment at virtually no cost to itself.

    Current strategy is, in the short to medium term, to offer the UK a withdrawal agreement and a transition period in return for an open border commitment.  The UK really wants and needs both of these things.  So its a good strategy, so far as it goes.

    But it doesn't go very far.  In a few years, after the transition period has expired, and after the UK has had the bulk of whatever benefits it gets from the withdrawal agreement, there's not much to hold the UK to its open-border promise. They lose little by walking away from it at that point.

    Which is why the long-term strategy is to negotiate a future relationship agreement with the UK which (a) provides continuing benefits to the UK, and (b) delivers an open border.  That way, the UK will continue to be in the position that it will lose something valuable to it if it walks away from the open border.

    And note where Ireland's interests lie in this.  The more generous the future relationship agreement is to the UK, the better for us, because the greater the cost to the UK of introducing a hard border and so losing the future relationship agreement.  So, assuming there is a withdrawal agreement, when the parties move on to negotiate the future relationship expect us to be warm advocates of British interests, and a strong supporter of the UK's desire for generous and easy terms.
    Well the one thing the UK wants post brexit is a FTA with the EU. That will take years. A framework agreement in the WA will not deliver this, so the UK shouldn't be thinking about reneging on any arrangement they have made wrt the border for fear of causing FTA talks to break down.
    reading uk fourms i get the feeling that the brexiteers recon that they can get a no deal brexit next march, then next day start negoiating a new super deal with the eu to finish within three months


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    #2239
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    flutered wrote: »
    reading uk fourms i get the feeling that the brexiteers recon that they can get a no deal brexit next march, then next day start negoiating a new super deal with the eu to finish within three months
    I had a conversation on twitter with a guy who was talking about the length of time the EU took to reach trade agreements and was saying the UK would be quicker because y'know, one country. He shut up when I told him NAFTA took six years. :)


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    #2240
    An Claidheamh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,605 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    lawred2 wrote: »
    The rhetoric coming out of the UK towards Ireland is becoming increasingly aggressive and hostile

    Funny how he turns it on us.

    Incidentally, it doesn't really "beggar belief" since France and Ireland are in the EU.

    2 years and they still don't realise what they've done.

    Britain and their Tories are not fit to govern themselves.


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    #2241
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1058449471128911873


    Does this fit into the narrative circulating that May will offer the cabinet a like it or lump ultimatum soon


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    #2242
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    Well, basically if the UK wants to block Irish trucks transiting the UK, it can do, but the consequences for UK trade would be rather severe and it it would be making itself into some kind of weird pariah state, outside the scope of normal international relations.

    It would be akin to Canada blocking US trucks going from Washington State to Alaska.

    Of course France will have a fast-track for Irish trucks, they're EU trucks. It's domestic traffic crossing the UK. Likewise, Ireland would probably need to have fast tracks for EU trucks entering Ireland (the EU) via Hollyhead and Fishguard.

    Thankfully, only some of British policy is set by tabloid newspapers.


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    #2243
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Well, basically if the UK wants to block Irish trucks transiting the UK, it can do, but the consequences for UK trade would be rather severe and it it would be making itself into some kind of weird pariah state, outside the scope of normal international relations.

    It would be akin to Canada blocking US trucks going from Washington State to Alaska.

    Of course France will have a fast-track for Irish trucks, they're EU trucks. It's domestic traffic crossing the UK. Likewise, Ireland would probably need to have fast tracks for EU trucks entering Ireland (the EU) via Hollyhead and Fishguard.

    Thankfully, only some of British policy is set by tabloid newspapers.
    The UK was a founding member of TIR back in 1949.

    If they leave then all freight that travels to the UK via the EU will have to be inspected and possibly duty paid. This affects the rail traffic from China and thanks to the Rotterdam Effect it will also happen to tans-shipments from Rotterdam.

    At present trucks using the landbridge between Ireland and the EU could use TIR signs to avoid customs inspections. If you ship the trailers unaccompanied like half the traffic on the Irish sea you don't even need to check drivers passports. Besides thanks to the CTA Irish drivers could travel the entire route.


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    #2244
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    An Claidheamh wrote: »
    lawred2 wrote: »
    The rhetoric coming out of the UK towards Ireland is becoming increasingly aggressive and hostile

    Funny how he turns it on us.

    Incidentally, it doesn't really "beggar belief" since France and Ireland are in the EU.

    2 years and they still don't realise what they've done.

    Britain and their Tories are not fit to govern themselves.
    An Claidheamh wrote: »
    lawred2 wrote: »
    The rhetoric coming out of the UK towards Ireland is becoming increasingly aggressive and hostile

    Funny how he turns it on us.

    Incidentally, it doesn't really "beggar belief" since France and Ireland are in the EU.

    2 years and they still don't realise what they've done.

    Britain and their Tories are not fit to govern themselves.
    I don`t know what the sun "newspaper"is like in Ireland but in Britain it has a very poor reputation.In the area I live its virtually banned and most retailers won`t sell it-this is because of LIES it spread about Liverpool fans at Hillsborough and it also hacked the voicemail of a murdered teenager which caused untold distress for her parents-so I would`nt take any notice of anything it says.


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    #2245
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    An Claidheamh wrote: »
    lawred2 wrote: »
    The rhetoric coming out of the UK towards Ireland is becoming increasingly aggressive and hostile

    Funny how he turns it on us.

    Incidentally, it doesn't really "beggar belief" since France and Ireland are in the EU.

    2 years and they still don't realise what they've done.

    Britain and their Tories are not fit to govern themselves.
    An Claidheamh wrote: »
    lawred2 wrote: »
    The rhetoric coming out of the UK towards Ireland is becoming increasingly aggressive and hostile

    Funny how he turns it on us.

    Incidentally, it doesn't really "beggar belief" since France and Ireland are in the EU.

    2 years and they still don't realise what they've done.

    Britain and their Tories are not fit to govern themselves.
    I don`t know what the sun "newspaper"is like in Ireland but in Britain it has a very poor reputation.In the area I live its almost completely banned and most retailers won`t sell it-this is because of LIES it spread about Liverpool fans at Hillsborough and it also hacked the voicemail of a murdered teenager which caused untold distress for her parents-so I would`nt take any notice of anything it says.


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    #2246
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Word is Theresa May is going to confront her cabinet on Tuesday, all of them, and demand they either sign off on the deal or take the bus home.


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    #2247
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Word is Theresa May is going to confront her cabinet on Tuesday, all of them, and demand they either sign off on the deal or take the bus home.
    Just like Chequers. That went well.


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    #2248
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,038 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Word is Theresa May is going to confront her cabinet on Tuesday, all of them, and demand they either sign off on the deal or take the bus home.

    It's anyone's guess who would come out best in such a showdown. We just don't know how determined the hard Brexiteers are to prevent the backstop and a customs union. I imagine we're going to find out soon enough (and might May cave in to Brexiteer pressure yet again?).


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    #2249
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Word is Theresa May is going to confront her cabinet on Tuesday, all of them, and demand they either sign off on the deal or take the bus home.

    What's the deal?


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    #2250
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,293 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    They better order a few buses if that is the ultimatum she is giving them.


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    #2251
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Gintonious wrote: »
    They better order a few buses if that is the ultimatum she is giving them.

    They could get that 300 million for the NHS one to shuttle them all back to middle england


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