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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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    #9512
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    tuxy wrote: »
    But it's not about a few farmers dodging tax it's about the GFA and a possible return to the troubles. Brexit will make people who are poor in NI even poorer and that combined with sections of the GFA being ignored has a chance of starting things off again.

    btw nobody said anything about farmers dodging tax, at least i did not.

    surely given the economic catastrophe a hard border is about to herald (which REMAINERS seem to think, incorrectly imo), then wouldn't it be cheaper to compensate those tax dodging farmers you speak of?


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    #9513
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,380 ✭✭✭cml387


    Muscles Schultz wrote: »
    Other way round dude

    Oops:P


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    #9514
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    this is why the Tories and many in NI are so pi€€ed off, as far as they are concerned they are being held to ransom as is the whole of the EU imo.


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    #9515
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,112 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    this is why the Tories and many in NI are so pi€€ed off, as far as they are concerned they are being held to ransom as is the whole of the EU imo.

    A hard border has real implications for people. The Tory and DUP objection to the backstop is on abstract grounds. Unionists have been reassured it does not separate them from the Union, that is still a consensual issue.


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    #9516
    Thatnastyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭Thatnastyboy


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    this is why the Tories and many in NI are so pi€€ed off, as far as they are concerned they are being held to ransom as is the whole of the EU imo.

    Being held to ransom by the British governments own red lines you mean?


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    #9517
    jooksavage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭jooksavage


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    don't get me wrong, i have little or no sympathy for the Tories.
    they never even considered little old Ireland indeed historically this has always been the case/

    but we are now in the crazy position where the 5th largest world economy is facing grave damage (as is Ireland and the rest of the EU to a lesser extent) all because we do not wish to discommode a few farmers on the border!??!


    Huh? My relatives in Antrim would beg to differ.


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    #9518
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,585 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    this is why the Tories and many in NI are so pi€€ed off, as far as they are concerned they are being held to ransom as is the whole of the EU imo.


    Can you clarify what you mean? If you are saying that the Tories were not aware of the GFA and its implications then who is to blame for this? It should have been obvious before the vote that this would present a problem for leaving the EU. But neither side bothered debating or even touching the subject.


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    #9519
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    how many of these tax dodging (your words not mine) are we talking about? 500, 1000, 10,000, 100,000?
    so Brexit, which 17m people voted for, and which will potentially damage the economies of the UK, the Rep and those on the mainland EU is being held up by 10,000 farmers?

    this is a ludicrous situation.


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    #9520
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    It's held up by that pesky Good Friday Agreement that has been responsible for relative peace on this island for two decades.


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    #9521
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,585 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    how many of these tax dodging (your words not mine) are we talking about? 500, 1000, 10,000, 100,000?
    so Brexit, which 17m people voted for, and which will potentially damage the economies of the UK, the Rep and those on the mainland EU is being held up by 10,000 farmers?

    this is a ludicrous situation.


    Did you see my post with the quotes from the Chief Constable of the PSNI? Are you dismissing it? That is the main reason why an open border is needed, not the economic impact. Economy comes second when you are talking about human lives that will be lost here.

    Do you think peace in NI is a ludicrous situation?


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    #9522
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Can you clarify what you mean? If you are saying that the Tories were not aware of the GFA and its implications then who is to blame for this? It should have been obvious before the vote that this would present a problem for leaving the EU. But neither side bothered debating or even touching the subject.

    i agree the should have but didn't. but we are where we are.


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    #9523
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    i personally think the whole border issue has been overblown.

    does anyone REALLY care if you had to show your passport or some other form of ID on those biannual trips to NI to buy your cheap booze?
    Ah here, really? Are you that young?

    The only time I ever saw the border posts was in 1996, en route to the Donegal Gaeltacht. There was no hassle, but the militaristic nature of the posts was unmistakeable.

    I was even then too young to understand the significance of them, but I can still remember what it looked like.

    Even ignoring the practicalities, the "minor inconvenience" of showing ID, there's an ideological issue. A hard border, while an ethereal barrier in real terms, serves as a reminder that Northern Ireland is part of the UK. That the Irish in the north are not free to move around their own country.

    New border posts don't have to 40 feet tall and covered in barbed wire, but they will still represent the exact same thing.

    The impact of it cannot be overstated IMO.


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    #9524
    Thatnastyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭Thatnastyboy


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    how many of these tax dodging (your words not mine) are we talking about? 500, 1000, 10,000, 100,000?
    so Brexit, which 17m people voted for, and which will potentially damage the economies of the UK, the Rep and those on the mainland EU is being held up by 10,000 farmers?

    this is a ludicrous situation.

    It isn't,


    It's being held up by the UK trying to wriggle out of a series of agreements they signed up to 20 years ago, collectively called the good friday agreement.


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    #9525
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,393 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    don't get me wrong, i have little or no sympathy for the Tories.
    they never even considered little old Ireland indeed historically this has always been the case/

    but we are now in the crazy position where the 5th largest world economy is facing grave damage (as is Ireland and the rest of the EU to a lesser extent) all because we do not wish to discommode a few farmers on the border!??!
    If you want to travel from Cavan Town to Clones, your journey starts and ends in the Republic of Ireland. But you cross the border 4 times on the main road in 10km or so. In that area, there are 40-50 border crossings. Would you be happy, if you were a local, to show your passport going about your daily business that often?
    Then you have towns like Blacklion/Belcoo, Beleek, Pettigo, Lifford/Strabane and even Derry itself (among countless others) that are straddling the border. To say that it's just a few farmers or Irish people buying alcohol shows staggering ignorance of Irish geography.


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    #9526
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Did you see my post with the quotes from the Chief Constable of the PSNI? Are you dismissing it? That is the main reason why an open border is needed, not the economic impact. Economy comes second when you are talking about human lives that will be lost here.

    Do you think peace in NI is a ludicrous situation?

    again it's being overplayed. if people want to kill themselves that their personal choice.

    ask any Police Chief anywhere and they ALWAYS look for more resources.


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    #9527
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    i agree the should have but didn't. but we are where we are.

    So rip up the GFA because tories temporary forgot what they signed up to 20 years ago?


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    #9528
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    just seen Leo being interviewed. he's beginning to make Arlene look like a soft-touch.


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    #9529
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,585 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    i agree the should have but didn't. but we are where we are.


    Yes, we are where we are because people didn't understand the GFA and its implications on Brexit. Just because people didn't discuss it properly beforehand doesn't mean you can now try to dismiss it as a problem for a few farmers as you have done. You are doing exactly what the politicians did before the vote by minimizing the impact of the GFA and what it has done on the island for the past 20 years.

    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    again it's being overplayed. if people want to kill themselves that their personal choice.

    ask any Police Chief anywhere and they ALWAYS look for more resources.


    Do you want to cite any evidence or want to tell us of your expertise in this area so that we can understand why it is overblown?

    Or do you want to read the articles and see he wasn't asking for more resources but relaying his opinion on what impact Brexit and having a border will have in Northern Ireland.


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    #9530
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,585 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    just seen Leo being interviewed. he's beginning to make Arlene look like a soft-touch.



    Please link the interview or provide us some info on what he has said so we can discuss it and your point of view of the interview. Otherwise you are just posting and not adding to the thread.


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    #9531
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    tuxy wrote: »
    So rip up the GFA because tories temporary forgot what they signed up to 20 years ago?

    we have to move beyond the GFA. it served its purpose.
    are we ever going to grow up as a country?


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    #9532
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Then you have towns like Blacklion/Belcoo, Beleek, Pettigo, Lifford/Strabane and even Derry itself (among countless others) that are straddling the border.
    Derry doesn't straddle the border - it's almost alongside it but doesn't cross it.


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    #9533
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    again it's being overplayed. if people want to kill themselves that their personal choice.

    ask any Police Chief anywhere and they ALWAYS look for more resources.

    If people want to kill other people, it should be their personal choice too eh?

    By the way, the elephant in the room. Yanno all this money that the UK are going to save by being out of the EU? How much of it is left when you subtract in the fact that policing 250+ border crossings is going to cost about £4 Million per day?


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    #9534
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    as i suspected the reason many on the border are so adamant is they do not want the DUP to be seen to "get one over" on the nationalists.

    this is more about tribal NI politics than what's best for these 2 islands & the EU.

    That has to be the daftest comment on this forum.
    The EU is not doing Ireland some massive favour by supporting the backstop arrangement. We do not have that much clout and 26 other sovereign countries are not that altruistic

    The Northern Ireland border will be a land border between the EU and the UK, a major world economy. Collectively the EU are looking after their own interests.

    The DUP would be irrelevant in this discussion if May had not called an election. This has nothing to do with them


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    #9535
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,112 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    again it's being overplayed. if people want to kill themselves that their personal choice.

    Let the UK ate grass on this one. Why should my life be destabilised and massively inconvenienced because they wish to leave the EU?

    I live on the border (about 500 yards) away and life would totally change if we go back to a physical one of any sort.


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    #9536
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    If people want to kill other people, it should be their personal choice too eh?

    By the way, the elephant in the room. Yanno all this money that the UK are going to save by being out of the EU? How much of it is left when you subtract in the fact that policing 250+ border crossings is going to cost about £4 Million per day?

    i am not recommending it you know.


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    #9537
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    joe40 wrote: »
    The EU is not doing Ireland some massive favour by supporting the backstop arrangement. We do not have that much clout and 26 other sovereign countries are not that altruistic
    I'd dispute the claim that we don't have much power - we have as much power as any other nation within the union.
    The UK has as much power as us, as does Germany and France, etc.
    However, the EU has rules which all members must follow which protects the union and it's trade. The EU is protecting itself by its actions. It just so happens that the protection involves us.
    Furthermore, we possibly have an extra safety net here in that if the EU were to shaft Ireland, every other small country would reconsider their membership to a disloyal union.


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    #9538
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    i am not recommending it you know.

    They won't do it then - because "Wheres Me Jumper" doesn't recommend it!


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    #9539
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,393 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Derry doesn't straddle the border - it's almost alongside it but doesn't cross it.
    OK I probably shouldn't have used the term "straddling the border" when it comes to Derry, but given that it's a city so close to the border, it'd have massive repercussions if WMJ's proposal was to come to pass.


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    #9540
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    They won't do it then - because "Wheres Me Jumper" doesn't recommend it!

    personal choice


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    #9541
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Derry doesn't straddle the border - it's almost alongside it but doesn't cross it.

    see it's not just Brexiters who peddle misinformation.:o


This discussion has been closed.
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