BEEP (Beef Environmental Efficiency Pilot Scheme)

Willfarman

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/payment-for-weighing-calves-a-good-move/

A reasonably sensible response?

_Brian

Willfarman wrote: »

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/payment-for-weighing-calves-a-good-move/

A reasonably sensible response?

Does a farmer with his own scales get it ??

Leading from that

If I pretend to have my own scales will I get it ??

Water John

Well Kathy Mac €40 per calf will make it all worthwhile.

Figerty

_Brian wrote: »

Does a farmer with his own scales get it ??

Leading from that

If I pretend to have my own scales will I get it ??

Na, buy a few bags of manure,. a barrel and a plank of wood.. Plank goes on barrel..
Put the calf on one end,.. and a bag of manure at the other.. when they balance the calf is 50Kg.. two bags means the calf is now 100 kg.

Keep weighing until the manure has to go out..

Water John

You could steal the one in the bathroom if the wife doesn't see you. Pick up the calf and weigh the two of you. Now if you're as heavy as me, that trick won't really work.

dh1985

Water John wrote: »

You could steal the one in the bathroom if the wife doesn't see you. Pick up the calf and weigh the two of you. Now if you're as heavy as me, that trick won't really work.

What would the wife say about the scour sprayed all over the bathroom though. Would you have to take thw blame for that so she doesnt find out

Water John

Ah feck, take the scales down to the calf shed, like any dacent man would do.

KatyMac

Water John wrote: »

Well Kathy Mac €40 per calf will make it all worthwhile.

'Twil in my left eyebrow......either buy or rent scales or hire man to do the weights. Drag the cattle to the yard to get them done (hiring man with lorry) then back to various outfarms (again hire man with lorry) and then give probably half of that €40 to Teagasc to fill out the paperwork - I'm fed up to back teeth of schemes that puts a lot more money into the pockets of so called advisors than I ever see. Not that I'm in any way bitter:rolleyes:

wrangler

KatyMac wrote: »

'Twil in my left eyebrow......either buy or rent scales or hire man to do the weights. Drag the cattle to the yard to get them done (hiring man with lorry) then back to various outfarms (again hire man with lorry) and then give probably half of that €40 to Teagasc to fill out the paperwork - I'm fed up to back teeth of schemes that puts a lot more money into the pockets of so called advisors than I ever see. Not that I'm in any way bitter:rolleyes:

As you say, another waste of time, people who are getting too much already are getting the most of it and those that need it getting SFA

TooOldBoots

KatyMac wrote: »

'Twil in my left eyebrow......either buy or rent scales or hire man to do the weights. Drag the cattle to the yard to get them done (hiring man with lorry) then back to various outfarms (again hire man with lorry) and then give probably half of that €40 to Teagasc to fill out the paperwork - I'm fed up to back teeth of schemes that puts a lot more money into the pockets of so called advisors than I ever see. Not that I'm in any way bitter:rolleyes:

Moan Moan Moan all the time out of some
:rolleyes:

Bass Reeves

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Moan Moan Moan all the time out of some
:rolleyes:

Not really it the reality of some of these schemes that is supposed to put money into farmers pockets. Take the knowledge transfer program. Teagasc and advisors get 500/participant not out of our money but still. Out of our 750 euro we have to pay the vet for the herd health plan so in reality farmers get 6-650.

KM is just pointing out the reality of the scheme. A 20 cow herd with 20 calves(unlikely) will get 800 euro. Even if it is all the one unit if you have to weight 3 times/year it will take you 2-3 hours each time with the associated risk of injury to man and beast

coolshannagh28

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not really it the reality of some of these schemes that is supposed to put money into farmers pockets. Take the knowledge transfer program. Teagasc and advisors get 500/participant not out of our money but still. Out of our 750 euro we have to pay the vet for the herd health plan so in reality farmers get 6-650.

KM is just pointing out the reality of the scheme. A 20 cow herd with 20 calves(unlikely) will get 800 euro. Even if it is all the one unit if you have to weight 3 times/year it will take you 2-3 hours each time with the associated risk of injury to man and beast

This is something the IFA should protest about ;the steady dilution of schemes ie the kt programme the 500 going to Teagasc/advisors would be better in the farmers pocket . I am invited to a forestry KT programme 470 for me 6500 for advisor

Farmer

I dont get the weight thing. Can't they use the mart sale weights, we'll give then a calf at birth size on a scale of one to three. Let them subtract the two and divide by the days in between whether it be 4 months or 30.

patsy_mccabe

You don't have to join. Jeez, farmers are a funny lot. No one's holding a gun to anyone's head.
Isn't it better to do something positive for payment rather than get a straight handout.

K9

Farmer wrote: »

I dont get the weight thing. Can't they use the mart sale weights, we'll give then a calf at birth size on a scale of one to three. Let them subtract the two and divide by the days in between whether it be 4 months or 30.

First 150 days of the calf’s weight gain is from the cows milk. Weighing at this age will give a good indication of how much milk the cow has.

KatyMac

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Moan Moan Moan all the time out of some
:rolleyes:

I wouldn't consider that a moan. I just stated how it is! As others have said there are plenty of hands out for the few bob various schemes are worth to the farmer.
And also there is nobody with a gun to my head making me join this scheme and at the moment unless there is something obvious that I'm missing I will not be signing up. Trying to keep to all elements of a scheme when the powers that be decide to move the goal posts half way through is not my idea of fun. (Again, I'm stating how it is on the ground not moaning).

Sheep breeder

KatyMac wrote: »

I wouldn't consider that a moan. I just stated how it is! As others have said there are plenty of hands out for the few bob various schemes are worth to the farmer.
And also there is nobody with a gun to my head making me join this scheme and at the moment unless there is something obvious that I'm missing I will not be signing up. Trying to keep to all elements of a scheme when the powers that be decide to move the goal posts half way through is not my idea of fun. (Again, I'm stating how it is on the ground not moaning).

Good post about moving the goalposts, as we have seen icbf do with the bdgp and as you say the man on the ground that keeps cows is trying his best to improve his stock. A better scheme might be sub the cost of Ai of proven sires for improving the suckler herd and not icbf and the Ai station promoting the next big bull that turns out a screw and mess up people’s star rating.

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not really it the reality of some of these schemes that is supposed to put money into farmers pockets. Take the knowledge transfer program. Teagasc and advisors get 500/participant not out of our money but still. Out of our 750 euro we have to pay the vet for the herd health plan so in reality farmers get 6-650.

KM is just pointing out the reality of the scheme. A 20 cow herd with 20 calves(unlikely) will get 800 euro. Even if it is all the one unit if you have to weight 3 times/year it will take you 2-3 hours each time with the associated risk of injury to man and beast

3x3 hours =9 hours. 800÷9=90
90 euros an hour ...not too bad. If i got that every time i brought in the cows id be very happy

Bass Reeves

charolais0153 wrote: »

3x3 hours =9 hours. 800÷9=90
90 euros an hour ...not too bad. If i got that every time i brought in the cows id be very happy

There is another way you can calculate it. 3 year scheme so 2400 euro.
Scales costs 800 leaving 1600.
I injury/year in loss of thrive and injections and risk of vet call 50 euro leaves 1450 over the three years. that is 483. 3X3 hour and 3X1 hour(filling up paper work) =40.25/hour still good money but not putting real money into a farmer pocket.

Then comes the sting once during the three year the Dept f@@k up on the paper work and you spend 16 hours chasing it and sorting it out. if that happens it it is 27/hour.


Oops I forgot about the ICBF 60/year if not in it already so take away another 180 euro over the three year leaving 35/ hour in normal circumstances and if the dept make a mistake 24.5/hour

patsy_mccabe

Lads, is this scheme not similar to the WHPR currently up and running with ICBF.
If so, then the farmer does not have to buy his own scales;

"The ICBF Scorer will have a weighing scales for weighing & restraining animals"
https://www.icbf.com/wp/?page_id=8066

I was seriously considering joining this existing programme as I have pedigree cattle. For €40, the decision is made.

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Lads, is this scheme not similar to the WHPR currently up and running with ICBF.
If so, then the farmer does not have to buy his own scales;

"The ICBF Scorer will have a weighing scales for weighing & restraining animals"
https://www.icbf.com/wp/?page_id=8066

I was seriously considering joining this existing programme as I have pedigree cattle. For €40, the decision is made.

My nephew does it for ICBF and all he has is a weigh platform that goes in the farmers crush........doesn't restrain them

Never wrestle with pigs

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Lads, is this scheme not similar to the WHPR currently up and running with ICBF.
If so, then the farmer does not have to buy his own scales;

"The ICBF Scorer will have a weighing scales for weighing & restraining animals"
https://www.icbf.com/wp/?page_id=8066

I was seriously considering joining this existing programme as I have pedigree cattle. For €40, the decision is made.

Have you to start vaccinating everything for bvd,lepto, ibr, joans, etc when you join that? More money. When you take animals to the mart and bring them back do you not loose your health status? I'm told from a few pedigree breeder's that it's an expensive program. I haven't fully looked into it yet myself but I don't think it's to simple.

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is another way you can calculate it. 3 year scheme so 2400 euro.
Scales costs 800 leaving 1600.
I injury/year in loss of thrive and injections and risk of vet call 50 euro leaves 1450 over the three years. that is 483. 3X3 hour and 3X1 hour(filling up paper work) =40.25/hour still good money but not putting real money into a farmer pocket.

Then comes the sting once during the three year the Dept f@@k up on the paper work and you spend 16 hours chasing it and sorting it out. if that happens it it is 27/hour.


Oops I forgot about the ICBF 60/year if not in it already so take away another 180 euro over the three year leaving 35/ hour in normal circumstances and if the dept make a mistake 24.5/hour

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, wouldn't it be a Merry Christmas
Its a lot better than a slap on the wrist.
I have no intention of buying a scales for a few hours work. Borrowing one or even hiring one is a much better alternative

dh1985

charolais0153 wrote: »

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, wouldn't it be a Merry Christmas
Its a lot better than a slap on the wrist.
I have no intention of buying a scales for a few hours work. Borrowing one or even hiring one is a much better alternative

Have to agree with you. Its could be a handy 40e per cow for damn all work. And gives the farmers a better indication of what actually is gping on. The last time i remembered farmers been paid for something they should be doing anyway for their own benefit was reps2.

But also ass bass has said teagasc are increasingly finding ways to keep themselves in handy no's on backs of the farmer. The glas scheme been a good example also. Been rode sideways for doing up plans

patsy_mccabe

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Have you to start vaccinating everything for bvd,lepto, ibr, joans, etc when you join that? More money. When you take animals to the mart and bring them back do you not loose your health status? I'm told from a few pedigree breeder's that it's an expensive program. I haven't fully looked into it yet myself but I don't think it's to simple.

This new scheme seems to be about weighing only. Don't even now if they will linear score. Confused myself now will all these schemes. The Limousin Society do a 'Limo Leader Herd Health'. Don't know how this overlaps with WHPR. :mad:

Never wrestle with pigs

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

This new scheme seems to be about weighing only. Don't even now if they will linear score. Confused myself now will all these schemes. The Limousin Society do a 'Limo Leader Herd Health'. Don't know how this overlaps with WHPR. :mad:

Like you I'm only getting in on it. But it's worth your while having a chat with a local breeder that's at it a while.

patsy_mccabe

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Like you I'm only getting in on it. But it's worth your while having a chat with a local breeder that's at it a while.

I know for all Limousin Premier sales you have to be in the WHPR.

Bottom line in this;
https://www.irishlimousin.com/event/2018-show-sales/

I have spoken to a few and they are not happy. Way too much hassle and work for what's in it.

It would be grand if you could weight them on your own, but bring in a complete stranger and it will like the annual herd test. Stressed out cows with young calves.....jumping walls & gates, the whole lot........

Willfarman

How are these cracked suckler animals slaughtered without stress beforehand? Another black mark against the “quality cattle = quality beef” mantra. And another tick for my dairy and beef dairy cross bullocks bullocks that I get no reward for...

grassroot1

Willfarman wrote: »

How are these cracked suckler animals slaughtered without stress beforehand? Another black mark against the “quality cattle = quality beef” mantra. And another tick for my dairy and beef dairy cross bullocks bullocks that I get no reward for...

Were you kicked by a suckler cow sometime in the past you seem to have issues in regard to them.

charolais0153

Have only been kicked twice. Full on in shin by friesian heifer and a graze on my calf by an angus cow.

bogman_bass

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Have you to start vaccinating everything for bvd,lepto, ibr, joans, etc when you join that? More money. When you take animals to the mart and bring them back do you not loose your health status? I'm told from a few pedigree breeder's that it's an expensive program. I haven't fully looked into it yet myself but I don't think it's to simple.

Nope. You dont