Bass Reeves wrote: » Not really it the reality of some of these schemes that is supposed to put money into farmers pockets. Take the knowledge transfer program. Teagasc and advisors get 500/participant not out of our money but still. Out of our 750 euro we have to pay the vet for the herd health plan so in reality farmers get 6-650.
Never wrestle with pigs wrote: » Don't have to jab for everything?
charolais0153 wrote: » Have only been kicked twice. Full on in shin by friesian heifer and a graze on my calf by an angus cow.
Bass Reeves wrote: » The government can only deal with carbon the way it is internationally calculated. It is immaterial in reality how much a dairy cow or suckler cow really cause on a carbon footprint. It is what it is internationally calculated at. Look at it from a national economic point of view. A suckler cow produces a weanling at the end of the year that on average is worth across the sector 6-800 euro. A dairy cow produces about 2K in milk and a weanling that is worth 3-400 on average. There is about 3 time the return on the same carbon footprint.
Never wrestle with pigs wrote: » It's actually going to dilute the whole Star system I think. Or any credibility it had left. Take a big pedigree SIM that can drive her heifer calf into big weight quick. A big pedigree lim cow will have a much lighter calf at the same age but that calf will catch up the following year. The more it starts to call half our stock crap and try to downgrade them the less I'm inclined to worry about it. Two of my best cows dived in stars lately. Both from well proven bloodlines. Calving intervills around the 360 days. Heavy weanlings being recorded on the mart system. Generally doing everything right. I do a genomic test, all previous data is correct, dam/sire etc on them and they dive. Well feck that for a load of crap. The more I start to see coming through the more I'm inclined to not care about it. It'll be like ebi in dairy. Everyone was at a race to the cows with the"best" numbers. Now it's only for the diehard and everyone else breeds the type of cattle they want for their own system. I couldn't give a rats any more about it because it's not putting money in my pocket. All this dismal of a government wants to do is crush every small family farm in sucklers and make way for the dairy expansion. Ahh Sher you can rare their calves or buy the leftover bulls and mind them for Larry for a few years. They haven't got the balls to come out and say what they are trying to do. Crunch the numbers and call the big cow carbon unfriendly drop the stars and hopefully donkey will send her to the factory. How much less bagged fert and meal and carbon footprint from milk collection and milking will the poor suckler cows stamp on our country compared to her dairy mini digester to milk have?? Sorry for the rant.
Buford T. Justice V wrote: » Just found out there is expected to be a target weight of the calf in relation to the dam. So e.g. a 500kg cow expected to produce a 60% calf rate so a target of 300kgs for the weaning. No idea how that's going to work but weighing cow and calf looks to be part of the scheme around weaning.
patsy_mccabe wrote: » This new scheme seems to be about weighing only. Don't even now if they will linear score. Confused myself now will all these schemes. The Limousin Society do a 'Limo Leader Herd Health'. Don't know how this overlaps with WHPR. :mad:
patsy_mccabe wrote: » I know for all Limousin Premier sales you have to be in the WHPR. Bottom line in this;https://www.irishlimousin.com/event/2018-show-sales/ I have spoken to a few and they are not happy. Way too much hassle and work for what's in it. It would be grand if you could weight them on your own, but bring in a complete stranger and it will like the annual herd test. Stressed out cows with young calves.....jumping walls & gates, the whole lot........
bogman_bass wrote: » Nope. You dont
Never wrestle with pigs wrote: » Have you to start vaccinating everything for bvd,lepto, ibr, joans, etc when you join that? More money. When you take animals to the mart and bring them back do you not loose your health status? I'm told from a few pedigree breeder's that it's an expensive program. I haven't fully looked into it yet myself but I don't think it's to simple.
Willfarman wrote: » How are these cracked suckler animals slaughtered without stress beforehand? Another black mark against the “quality cattle = quality beef” mantra. And another tick for my dairy and beef dairy cross bullocks bullocks that I get no reward for...
Never wrestle with pigs wrote: » Like you I'm only getting in on it. But it's worth your while having a chat with a local breeder that's at it a while.
charolais0153 wrote: » If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, wouldn't it be a Merry Christmas Its a lot better than a slap on the wrist. I have no intention of buying a scales for a few hours work. Borrowing one or even hiring one is a much better alternative
Bass Reeves wrote: » There is another way you can calculate it. 3 year scheme so 2400 euro. Scales costs 800 leaving 1600. I injury/year in loss of thrive and injections and risk of vet call 50 euro leaves 1450 over the three years. that is 483. 3X3 hour and 3X1 hour(filling up paper work) =40.25/hour still good money but not putting real money into a farmer pocket. Then comes the sting once during the three year the Dept f@@k up on the paper work and you spend 16 hours chasing it and sorting it out. if that happens it it is 27/hour. Oops I forgot about the ICBF 60/year if not in it already so take away another 180 euro over the three year leaving 35/ hour in normal circumstances and if the dept make a mistake 24.5/hour
patsy_mccabe wrote: » Lads, is this scheme not similar to the WHPR currently up and running with ICBF. If so, then the farmer does not have to buy his own scales;"The ICBF Scorer will have a weighing scales for weighing & restraining animals"https://www.icbf.com/wp/?page_id=8066 I was seriously considering joining this existing programme as I have pedigree cattle. For €40, the decision is made.
charolais0153 wrote: » 3x3 hours =9 hours. 800÷9=90 90 euros an hour ...not too bad. If i got that every time i brought in the cows id be very happy
Bass Reeves wrote: » Not really it the reality of some of these schemes that is supposed to put money into farmers pockets. Take the knowledge transfer program. Teagasc and advisors get 500/participant not out of our money but still. Out of our 750 euro we have to pay the vet for the herd health plan so in reality farmers get 6-650. KM is just pointing out the reality of the scheme. A 20 cow herd with 20 calves(unlikely) will get 800 euro. Even if it is all the one unit if you have to weight 3 times/year it will take you 2-3 hours each time with the associated risk of injury to man and beast
KatyMac wrote: » I wouldn't consider that a moan. I just stated how it is! As others have said there are plenty of hands out for the few bob various schemes are worth to the farmer. And also there is nobody with a gun to my head making me join this scheme and at the moment unless there is something obvious that I'm missing I will not be signing up. Trying to keep to all elements of a scheme when the powers that be decide to move the goal posts half way through is not my idea of fun. (Again, I'm stating how it is on the ground not moaning).
TooOldBoots wrote: » Moan Moan Moan all the time out of some :rolleyes:
Farmer wrote: » I dont get the weight thing. Can't they use the mart sale weights, we'll give then a calf at birth size on a scale of one to three. Let them subtract the two and divide by the days in between whether it be 4 months or 30.
