Irish tourist scratches his name into the wall at Auschwitz

Silentcorner

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I am curious, why did Stalin install a gas chamber after the war?

...to make it look like the Germans were killing Jews...he was a crafty one was Stalin!

Hitman3000

Silentcorner wrote:

...to show one of the ways the Germans were killing Jews...he was a crafty one was Stalin!

FYP

Skylinehead

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Auschwitz was a small camp, Birkenau was where most of the killings took place many went directly to the gas chambers others were worked to death at various factories operated by such household names as IG Faben others allowed to die of starvation and diease, along with the smaller camps such as Plasow, Triblinka.

Plasow was a labour camp like that, but Treblinka was a death camp. Doesn't receive as much attention as Auschwitz, maybe because Auschwitz was the "bigger" one, but it was just as horrific.

Never been in those but I have been to Sachsenhausen outside of Berlin, sobering stuff. It was more political prisoners in there, along with killing thousands of Soviet prisoners.

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I am curious, why did Stalin install a gas chamber after the war?

Wouldn't bother, the bang of Holocaust denial off that post.

Ipso

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I am curious, why did Stalin install a gas chamber after the war?

Don't encourage them, if you do there will be tin foil everywhere.

wingsof daun

Dan Jaman wrote: »

Not sure whether you're trying to deny the awfulness that was the Holocaust or not, or whether or not Auschwitz was a death camp.
It was certainly a death camp, but mainly as a result of the work-to-death policy of the slave regime in place around that area. There were various manufacturies in place, all drawing labour from the slave pool of Auschwitz camps (plural - it's a huge complex). Many thousands died there, in horrible conditions, but it wasn't actually a mass-extermination camp like a few others. Whatever, the net result was the same.

No. That happened in the Gulags in Soviet Russia, people were worked to death there. People were given 5 or 10 years hard labour often for muttering the wrong political views on the street. The camps under German control were not work camps. Russian prisoners worked in mines and other projects that is well documented. What work was there to do in the concentration camps? The autobahns etc were all built before the holocaust period. Why werent the Jews put to work on them? Maybe they were, but did the Germans not decide to kill them until WWII began? Besides, there is no evidence Jewd died en masse building autobahns.

Hitman3000

Bosch
Mercedes
Deutsche Bank
V W
Bayer
IG Faben
All used slave labour from the concentration camps the majority of the slave labour used by several of them were Jewish.
Many other German companies used slave labour but have as yet to acknowledge their crimes .
The SS itself ran several companies exclusively using slave labour cement works at Mashiusen ( probably spelt it wrong) was one of the more vile in the camp system.
Let's not forget IBM helped the Nazis with the system they used in the final solution.

wexie

I'm gonna guess this guy is wearing either slippers or shoes that close with velcro

B0jangles

wexie wrote: »

I'm gonna guess this guy is wearing either slippers or shoes that close with velcro

Dan Jaman

wingsof daun wrote: »

No. That happened in the Gulags in Soviet Russia, people were worked to death there. People were given 5 or 10 years hard labour often for muttering the wrong political views on the street. The camps under German control were not work camps. Russian prisoners worked in mines and other projects that is well documented. What work was there to do in the concentration camps? The autobahns etc were all built before the holocaust period. Why werent the Jews put to work on them? Maybe they were, but did the Germans not decide to kill them until WWII began? Besides, there is no evidence Jewd died en masse building autobahns.

Sorry, but you just passed the idiot test.
Welcome to the ignore file.

Wibbs

wingsof daun wrote: »

The camps under German control were not work camps. Russian prisoners worked in mines and other projects that is well documented. What work was there to do in the concentration camps?

Incorrect. The Nazi's operated, with some overlap, roughly three types of camp; concentration camps(political prisoner and other "undesirables"), extermination camps and POW camps. Concentration camps were most certainly used for forced labour. Take the subject at hand, the Auschwitz Birkenau complex. It was an example of a mixed set of camps and a truly massive enterprise spread across a huge area, having forced labour, extermination facilities and POWs in the mix(almost entirely from the Soviet and Polish forces). Auschwitz 3 was run as a privately funded and built industrial chemical factory for IG Farben. Companies like Krupps and Seimens ran other smaller camps.

While they were enacting the Final Solution in one area kept away from the rest, letters went back and forth between local commanders and HQ over the unacceptable death rates(10-30%) among the forced labourers, which was screwing with productivity. This correspondence has often been used by deniers to "prove" the Nazi's weren't in the business of killing Jews, but it refers exclusively to the forced labourers. Forced labour was vital to to the German war effort. For a start, unlike Allied nations they never utilised their women as workers. Preferring them as stay at home house fraus producing arians for the Reich. So half their production population was wasted. Even in the extermination part, they selected out the too young, too old and infirm among the Jews, Roma etc and murdered them almost immediately, keeping the young and fit around to work them to death. Later in the war when labour shortages were getting desperate they extended some medical care even to the otherwise fit Jewish prisoners.

About the most famous Jewish voices from that time was Anne Frank. After they were caught she and her family were transported to Auschwitz, where her father was separated from her, her mother and sister. They assumed he was to be killed, but he wasn't. He just got under the wire of being fit enough for slave labour. He though the same horrible fate awaited them, but she survived the selection as she was just old enough to be spared for forced labour. She survived that hell for six months, succumbing to typhus and starvation like her mother and sister after they were moved on to Belsen. Her father survived the war and the camps only to find out his entire family was gone.

Guy:Incognito

seamus wrote: »

I wonder is he special needs.

I can't see how a 38 year old man in his full faculties would ever consider this to be reasonable behaviour.

Have a wander around Dublin city and a few suburbs. It won't take long to see grown adults being absolute scumbags and dropping their litter all around them without a care in the world.

People don't need to have special needs to behave like dickheads and/or scumbags.

indioblack

lawred2 wrote: »

Never found Dad's Army funny either.

Fair enough.
For my Polish workmate it was the concept of using humour in this way rather than how humorous it actually was.

wingsof daun

Wibbs wrote: »

Incorrect. The Nazi's operated, with some overlap, roughly three types of camp; concentration camps(political prisoner and other "undesirables"), extermination camps and POW camps. Concentration camps were most certainly used for forced labour. Take the subject at hand, the Auschwitz Birkenau complex. It was an example of a mixed set of camps and a truly massive enterprise spread across a huge area, having forced labour, extermination facilities and POWs in the mix(almost entirely from the Soviet and Polish forces). Auschwitz 3 was run as a privately funded and built industrial chemical factory for IG Farben. Companies like Krupps and Seimens ran other smaller camps.

While they were enacting the Final Solution in one area kept away from the rest, letters went back and forth between local commanders and HQ over the unacceptable death rates(10-30%) among the forced labourers, which was screwing with productivity. This correspondence has often been used by deniers to "prove" the Nazi's weren't in the business of killing Jews, but it refers exclusively to the forced labourers. Forced labour was vital to to the German war effort. For a start, unlike Allied nations they never utilised their women as workers. Preferring them as stay at home house fraus producing arians for the Reich. So half their production population was wasted.

You think stay at home women are "wasted". I think its honourable for a woman to stay at home and raise more children. Labour is vital to any war effort, the point you fail to make - ethnic Germans "arians" willing worked hard for the renewal of their nation an later for the war effort. Its called patriotism.

wexie

Wibbs wrote: »

Incorrect. The Nazi's operated, with some overlap, roughly three types of camp; concentration camps(.....wibbsims......wibbsims
.........wibbsims......wibbsims.....

You know Wibbs, I have to say I have a lot of respect for your patience and willingness to engage with even the most moronic of posters.

But....do you ever think it might be a wasted effort?

Hitman3000

wingsof daun wrote:

You think stay at home women are "wasted". I think its honourable for a woman to stay at home and raise more children. Labour is vital to any war effort, the point you fail to make - ethnic Germans "arians" willing worked hard for the renewal of their nation an later for the war effort. Its called patriotism.

That's not what he said he said the capability of German Women's labour was not utilised. Being complicit in the destruction of another race is not Patriotism. There are many words to describe it but Patriotism is not one of them.

Hitman3000

wexie wrote:

But....do you ever think it might be a wasted effort?

It may not educate the morons, but for those with a brain it's good knowledge to be given for free.

Wibbs

wingsof daun wrote: »

You think stay at home women are "wasted".

In a war? Yes. Outside of the obvious moral issues, forced labour is rarely quality labour. It requires far more supervision and expense and numbers. Willing labour is far better and as the Allies showed the previously untapped labour force of women made a huge difference in production and ultimately helped their side win.

I think its honourable for a woman to stay at home and raise more children.

If that's what they choose to do, cool.

Labour is vital to any war effort, the point you fail to make - ethnic Germans "arians" willing worked hard for the renewal of their nation an later for the war effort. Its called patriotism.

Any point therein was beyond the remit of the points I was arguing.

Wibbs

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Being complicit in the destruction of another race is not Patriotism.

Races. Anyone considered non Aryan was seen a little more than animals and afforded the same considerations. If anything worse than animals. The Nazi's introduced some of the first laws and regulations with regard to animal rights. If they had won, the extermination wouldn't have stopped. Slavs in whatever territories they held likely would have been next.

indioblack

Wibbs wrote: »

Incorrect. The Nazi's operated, with some overlap, roughly three types of camp; concentration camps(political prisoner and other "undesirables"), extermination camps and POW camps. Concentration camps were most certainly used for forced labour. Take the subject at hand, the Auschwitz Birkenau complex. It was an example of a mixed set of camps and a truly massive enterprise spread across a huge area, having forced labour, extermination facilities and POWs in the mix(almost entirely from the Soviet and Polish forces). Auschwitz 3 was run as a privately funded and built industrial chemical factory for IG Farben. Companies like Krupps and Seimens ran other smaller camps.

While they were enacting the Final Solution in one area kept away from the rest, letters went back and forth between local commanders and HQ over the unacceptable death rates(10-30%) among the forced labourers, which was screwing with productivity. This correspondence has often been used by deniers to "prove" the Nazi's weren't in the business of killing Jews, but it refers exclusively to the forced labourers. Forced labour was vital to to the German war effort. For a start, unlike Allied nations they never utilised their women as workers. Preferring them as stay at home house fraus producing arians for the Reich. So half their production population was wasted. Even in the extermination part, they selected out the too young, too old and infirm among the Jews, Roma etc and murdered them almost immediately, keeping the young and fit around to work them to death. Later in the war when labour shortages were getting desperate they extended some medical care even to the otherwise fit Jewish prisoners.

About the most famous Jewish voices from that time was Anne Frank. After they were caught she and her family were transported to Auschwitz, where her father was separated from her, her mother and sister. They assumed he was to be killed, but he wasn't. He just got under the wire of being fit enough for slave labour. He though the same horrible fate awaited them, but she survived the selection as she was just old enough to be spared for forced labour. She survived that hell for six months, succumbing to typhus and starvation like her mother and sister after they were moved on to Belsen. Her father survived the war and the camps only to find out his entire family was gone.

Many years ago I worked with a German woman who had lived with her mother in Berlin during the war.
She told me she was recruited into the German military at the end of the war. She never told me what service it was or what she was expected to do - she did say they gave her a uniform. I'd never heard of this. Perhaps such things happened at the very end of the war.
Her military service was cut short by the arrival of the Red Army who employed her as a typist.
She married a British soldier and, with her mother, moved to England.

Wibbs

indioblack wrote: »

Many years ago I worked with a German woman who had lived with her mother in Berlin during the war.
She told me she was recruited into the German military at the end of the war.

Yeah when things went to crap at the end they grabbed every able and not so able bodied man, woman and child in defence of the Reich and especially Berlin. They were handed grenades and antitank rockets and uniforms to attack Soviet forces. Others were used as runners for communications, others as support staff. Even got Hitler to hand out medals to some of these kids. Last film taken of him I believe.

Hitman3000

indioblack wrote:

Many years ago I worked with a German woman who had lived with her mother in Berlin during the war. She told me she was recruited into the German military at the end of the war. She never told me what service it was or what she was expected to do - she did say they gave her a uniform. I'd never heard of this. Perhaps such things happened at the very end of the war. Her military service was cut short by the arrival of the Red Army who employed her as a typist. She married a British soldier and, with her mother, moved to England.

Basically Hitler was happy to see the entire German people destroyed if defeat was eminent. They were given uniforms and little in the way of weaponry to attack the approaching allies.

Franz Von Peppercorn

indioblack wrote: »

Fair enough.
For my Polish workmate it was the concept of using humour in this way rather than how humorous it actually was.

Eh?

A few old lads defending Britain after the bulk of the army was fighting on the continent? What’s upsetting there?

Of course it is crap comedy. But not for that reason.

wingsof daun

Hitman3000 wrote: »

That's not what he said he said the capability of German Women's labour was not utilised. Being complicit in the destruction of another race is not Patriotism. There are many words to describe it but Patriotism is not one of them.

It seems they treated women far better than the allies or the Soviets. No women were conscripted into the army nor would they have been accepted. That is a sign of a progressive society, it is not barbarism. Why should women do the work of men?

Strazdas

Wibbs wrote: »

Yeah when things went to crap at the end they grabbed every able and not so able bodied man, woman and child in defence of the Reich and especially Berlin. They were handed grenades and antitank rockets and uniforms to attack Soviet forces. Others were used as runners for communications, others as support staff. Even got Hitler to hand out medals to some of these kids. Last film taken of him I believe.

That film was shot in the grounds of the Reich Chancellery right beside the entrance to the bunker on April 20, 1945, ten days before Hitler committed suicide. The Red Army were already in the suburbs of Berlin and fast approaching.

indioblack

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Basically Hitler was happy to see the entire German people destroyed if defeat was eminent. They were given uniforms and little in the way of weaponry to attack the approaching allies.

She didn't give many details of that period - must've been rough for her.
She recognized an SS officer on a railway station dressed in civilian clothes - presumably trying to disappear.

Hitman3000

wingsof daun wrote:

That is a sign of a progressive society, it is not barbarism. Why should women do the work of men?

We have a different definition of progressive, slaughtering men women and children because you believe them to be inferior is not progressive. Hundreds of German women severed in the SS as camp guards. Several such as Emma Grese were executed after the war for their crimes.

wingsof daun

Wibbs wrote: »

Races. Anyone considered non Aryan was seen a little more than animals and afforded the same considerations. If anything worse than animals. The Nazi's introduced some of the first laws and regulations with regard to animal rights. If they had won, the extermination wouldn't have stopped. Slavs in whatever territories they held likely would have been next.

A confused statement. Yes they supported animal rights, but they wanted to kill other races of people? Sounds like something out of Hollywood, not credible.

indioblack

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Eh?

A few old lads defending Britain after the bulk of the army was fighting on the continent? What’s upsetting there?

Of course it is crap comedy. But not for that reason.

The idea of using the war in a sitcom. He disagreed with that.
As for the content, it wasn't such a bad series. Not brilliant - very popular, though.

Wibbs

wingsof daun wrote: »

No women were conscripted into the army nor would they have been accepted.

I hate to break it to you but women were accepted as auxiliaries into the Wehrmacht, even had their own branch of the SS. A few hundred thousand of them.

That is a sign of a progressive society, it is not barbarism. Why should women do the work of men?

How so much daft can be fitted into so few words. I salute you Sir.

Ipso

wingsof daun wrote: »

A confused statement. Yes they supported animal rights, but they wanted to kill other races of people? Sounds like something out of Hollywood, not credible.

They were veteranaryans.