Centerfire semi auto

CplCurley

Hi folks,

Is it possible to own a semi auto fn in 308?
I'm a member of the Midlands range and own my own home and have an alarm and safes is there any other requirements I need to meet?

Kind regards

John

Cass

Yes.

It's a restricted firearm so the application goes to the Chief Super. All restricted means is it [the application] comes under a higher level of scrutiny and you must show why it, above a non restricted firearm, is required.

It's actually not hard and myself as a few others have gone through this process. There are no traps or tricks and once you can show good reason it is entirely possible.

Grizzly 45

Will mention as well. There is also plenty of district court cases that were won with a lot of money,blood sweat and tears,to justify ownership of such here in the Republic...just in case your CS might feel inclined not to grant...Just sayin.:)

CplCurley

Thanks Lads i really appreciate it, Where would i go to put a deposit on 1 i've searched gun shops up and down and i dont ever see semi centerfires for sale? looking for an FN Fal or M1 Garand

gunny123

CplCurley wrote: »

Thanks Lads i really appreciate it, Where would i go to put a deposit on 1 i've searched gun shops up and down and i dont ever see semi centerfires for sale? looking for an FN Fal or M1 Garand

Never seen a Garand, mores the pity, but there was a few Norinco m14's around. I tried to buy one years ago, when the message came back from the super, something to do with snowballs in hell.

I had not got the money to contest it so let it go.

Pat in Hilltop had an fn, i do not know if he still does, i was looking at it one night, bloody heavy it was i remember. He must know where to get them obviously.

Dealers are not going to stock things as hard to shift as semi-auto centrefires, in the rare occurance someone want to buy one. If it were me i'd be looking towards Germany.

Hack12

Pat in HT still has the FN. Garands are rare enough. Pat O'Mahony in An Riocht is good for the older rifles.

Richard308

I know mike Duggan has a bushmaster 223 semi auto in Camo

Grizzly 45

Ok, we are into the game now.A "SA sporting rifle" is not a very common gun here for a start, the FAL less so.I have only seen one here sofar down in An Riocht. So this is where the gamble starts. Most dealers won't import this type of rifle, because it can be a 50/50 on granting the license, and if you don't see this all the way thru to a district court if need be. They are stuck with another difficult to sell the item in the gunroom.I had to pay 75% down on mine before the dealer would bring it in, but he knew I'd go all the way if need be, and I did to get the license. And even then it was a bit of bolloixology,as the initial gun had been sold and therefore with the long delay,the serial number didn't correspond to the cert number.So that had to be reordered and reissued, with a further delay on AGS side.

So that's your first step. Also you need to make sure it is a CAT B7[civillian semi auto sporting rifle] under the new EU gun laws. IOW it comes delivered with a ten round mag ONLY. And is not a converted select fire to semi-auto only Ex military otherwise it will be knocked up into CAT A [prohibited,with exemptions],causing more trouble for you.

Were I doing this again. I'd import it myself once I'd have the license on the proviso I could find a dealer that will hold the gun for a specific time until the lic is granted with the same serial number.The Dept of Justice will issue the import cert for free,and it is usually about 50 euros to get it done by the vendor in the EU.
Trouble is now finding one.They arent that common anymore in a market dominated by the AR and Hk makes,clones and knockoffs.

Grizzly 45

BTW the Garand in 30.06 is still common enough in the EU.[About 800 starting price] 308 versions not so much.

cookimonster

Shoot.ie (Duffys Galway) had a Garand about 6 years ago (long shot I know).

I had to Google it just to be sure to be sure, but if you've a hankering for the FN due to some nostalgia of the old Irish service rifle remember ours are / where capable of automatic fire unlike the similar assault rifle used by the British Army which was semi auto only...so it might be a no no due to its auto fire. Unlike the styer I have no recollection of ever firing it on auto.

gunny123

I looked at this before, it would be great if you were shooting driven wild boar out in eastern europe.

https://mcbrides.ie/collections/centerfire-rifles/products/benelli-r1-argo-308-ins

CplCurley

Thanks grizzly I appreciate the effort! I love the history behind m1 garands and fn's.
To jump through all the hoops I want it to be worth the effort

gunny123

CplCurley wrote: »

Thanks grizzly I appreciate the effort! I love the history behind m1 garands and fn's.
To jump through all the hoops I want it to be worth the effort

The Americans reimported a huge amount of garands recently, as they sell them in the CMP, which is the civilian marksmanship program. They were getting harder and harder to find over there. They found a huge store of them in the Philippines and brought them back. But i suppose there is still a lot knocking around europe.

How much are they going for ? I priced a few enfields a while ago and could not get over how much they increased in price. Feeding a semi-auto .30-06 could get expensive too, especially over something like a .223 or .308.

CplCurley

True a 308 m1 or 308 fn would be ideal as I've a 308 Remington 700 already.

I'm planning on putting up a mosin nagant and 700 rounds of 7.62x54r ammo and sold a ruger 10/22 to help pay for the project!

Hoping someone here will part with a m1, fn, or maybe even an sks

gunny123

Whatever happened to John i think his name was, out in Fingal north Dublin ? He used to trade in surplus military rifles. He was on the classic rifle forum a lot. Is that forum gone ?

Richard308

John kavanagh still in business

Grizzly 45

CplCurley wrote: »

True a 308 m1 or 308 fn would be ideal as I've a 308 Remington 700 already.

I'm planning on putting up a mosin nagant and 700 rounds of 7.62x54r ammo and sold a ruger 10/22 to help pay for the project!

Hoping someone here will part with a m1, fn, or maybe even an sks

Did you shift the Ruger 10/22?Had my eye on that..Ah well..:)
Anyhoo,you can pick up an SKS for very handy money these days.Between 500 and 800 euros in Germany,and its another Barbie gun.With all sorts of outfits.I've never seen any sort of 7.62X39 calibre rifle here in IRL.So maybe it still has a whiff of "I dont like de look o dat now" in the calibre or association with the AK? Push the boat out, and be the first kid on the block to have an AK style rifle in Ireland:D SKS on Egun
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=7064152

Cass

I still don't get the appeal of the older guns. Nothing personal lads and each to their own, but for me its just no. Give me new, shiney, "tacti-cool", and all the other trappings that only cost money with no benefits.

CplCurley

Yeah Ruger 10/22 went for 450 just waiting on the lad to get his licence! smoking deal the whole package below...

Pat White (Passed away and a wonderful gentleman) in Claremorris let me fire his, his son still runs the shop but the SKS isnt for sale  but the shop has a good supply of 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r and i highly rate them for Ammo prices.
My ideal is the FN with the M1 garand a close second and SKS third

banie01

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Did you shift the Ruger 10/22?Had my eye on that..Ah well..:)
Anyhoo,you can pick up an SKS for very handy money these days.Between 500 and 800 euros in Germany,and its another Barbie gun.With all sorts of outfits.I've never seen any sort of 7.62X39 calibre rifle here in IRL.So maybe it still has a whiff of "I dont like de look o dat now" in the calibre or association with the AK? Push the boat out, and be the first kid on the block to have an AK style rifle in Ireland:D SKS on Egun
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=7064152

I remember many years ago there was a Gun Dealer on Mary St in Limerick who had a couple of SKS for sale, so there must be a few knocking around somewhere?

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

I still don't get the appeal of the older guns. Nothing personal lads and each to their own, but for me its just no. Give me new, shiney, "tacti-cool", and all the other trappings that only cost money with no benefits.

The history aspect. An old enfield or garand, you don't know where it has been, what it was involved in, d-day, the battle of the bulge, north africa, the war in the east. Where as a new rifle seen the factory, the dealers shelf and thats it.

Grizzly 45

banie01 wrote: »

I remember many years ago there was a Gun Dealer on Mary St in Limerick who had a couple of SKS for sale, so there must be a few knocking around somewhere?

Dereck Kearney[RIP] Fruit&Veg,Guns& Ammo?
Remember him well enough:rolleyes: Gipped me out of a Bruno O/U that I was having trouble licensing in the early 90s. Probably did me a favour in the very long run,they had heat treatment issues of the reciver on some.

Closed up about 1994?I doubt very much that they were for sale to the GP as rifles around that time,as anything bigger than 22/250 was still illegal. They might have been UK converted to 410 shotguns. Those types of guns were somewhat common in the UK back then in the pre-Hungerford Era.Semi auto rifles bored out to 410 and held on shotgun certs.I'd say the feeding issues must have been fun on them too.

Grizzly 45

CplCurley wrote: »

Yeah Ruger 10/22 went for 450 just waiting on the lad to get his licence! smoking deal the whole package below...

Sigh! Oh well...That's the better half Xmas pressie gone then.:P
Think I'll have to see about dual licensing ourselves on a Ruger mini 14 or the new Ruger 9mm patrol carbine. Basically an overgrown 10/22 takedown action that can take Glock mags.

If anything,I reckon this could be a new bowstring for the Gallery rifle boys.9mm semi auto,as even Chiappa is making an M1carbine in 9mm these days.

banie01

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dereck Kearney[RIP] Fruit&Veg,Guns& Ammo?
Remember him well enough:rolleyes:

Thats the fella alright!

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sigh! Oh well...That's the better half Xmas pressie gone then.:P
Think I'll have to see about dual licensing ourselves on a Ruger mini 14 or the new Ruger 9mm patrol carbine. Basically an overgrown 10/22 takedown action that can take Glock mags.

If anything,I reckon this could be a new bowstring for the Gallery rifle boys.9mm semi auto,as even Chiappa is making an M1carbine in 9mm these days.

Nice, and not too expensive to feed either.

CplCurley

So from talking with another member on the phone last night i need to get a monitored alarm and not the the current "Dumb" alarm and a motion Sensor in the same room as the safes, Attic in my case. Also several interviews with sgt and supers in garda and the possibility of a district court case! i guess what i'm saying is after all that am i guaranteed to get the licence?????? or should i just get a semi 22wmr?

BattleCorp

CplCurley wrote: »

So from talking with another member on the phone last night i need to get a monitored alarm and not the the current "Dumb" alarm and a motion Sensor in the same room as the safes, Attic in my case. Also several interviews with sgt and supers in garda and the possibility of a district court case! i guess what i'm saying is after all that am i guaranteed to get the licence?????? or should i just get a semi 22wmr?

Restricted firearms aren't impossible to get. You just have a few more hoops to jump through than for unrestricted firearms.

I have restricted firearms and this is the security level I needed. For the record, your Chief Super can always insist on more stringent measures that were imposed on me though.

1. Monitored alarm with GSM backup. I needed PIRs inside the rooms where the gun safes were stored but I had that already.
2. BS7558 safes x 2 so that the gun could be broken down with parts stored in each safe. The safes had to be in different rooms by the way.
3. The door locks and window locks had to be of a certain standard too. I can't remember exactly.
4. A metal box fixed to the inside of my car for transporting the firearms to and from the range.

The CPO had to inspect my premises to ensure that my security was up to that level before the licence was granted.

But by far and away the most important thing you need when applying for a restricted licence is to prove to the Chief Super why you need that firearm and why an unrestricted firearm won't do the same job. For example, there are special competitions for service rifles over a certain age (vintage and the like) and that might be your reason for needing that firearm. Another example might be competitions run by the NASRPC and GRPAI where they shoot M1 carbines. You can't shoot in one of those competitions with a bolt action rifle. It has to be a semi-auto comp.

If you really want one, then go for it. Nothing is guaranteed but you won't know until you try.

Cass

CplCurley wrote: »

Also several interviews with sgt and supers in garda ..........

No harm to your mate, and perhaps he went through that, but it seems excessive, not to mention somewhat wrong.

The Sgt has no input in this process. S/He doesn't sign off on the license and if they are also the FO they simply process the application and send it to the Chief Super's office for approval/refusal. You DON'T interview with the Sgt, EVER.

While not trying to be pedantic the Super is also redundant. The application will go to the Chief Super as only a CS can issue a license for a restricted firearm. There will be a meeting, but only with the CS, never with a Super. Make sure the license, if successful, is not issued or signed by the Super. It's stands moot and i know at least two lads with licenses signed off by the Super for a restricted firearm.

My meetings (for multiple restricted firearms) were all very pleasant, fair and once i put my case across i got them. Spent more time talking about other topics and about 5 minutes about the firearm.

Grizzly 45

I concur with Cass on this. None of the FO, Sgts beer, that's well above his rank and pay grade.It is wholly a Cs decision, although he might confer with the Super, and for some strange reason, your application WILL land on the Super's desk, before it is pushed up to the Chief's office across the corridor.I had this experience this year with two restricted shotgun applications not moving.
My FO is a good egg and chased it up, and found them sitting on the Supers desk for some reason. Maybe its some sort of AGS format of doing things with paperwork? Who knows?:rolleyes:

Now, unless your CS is going to be an utter prick about things. Its a long way from an application to the Dist Court. And remember too, Costs can, and have been awarded against AGS for losing these cases too. Also, there is enough DC "precedent" for DC judges to know the judgements of fellow Judges on these matters, and they will generally follow the established route.
That's not to say it will be a win all the time. Going to law is always a lottery, combined with poker playing. So if you do,you need to have all of your ducks well lined up with all I's dotted and T's crossed.

It can be done, just have your very good reasons well explained, what comps you NEED it for, service rifle, bullseye 360 of course;) and any others that are out there.

solarwinds

Thats all good and well but what happens when you have a situation like i did where i was told my application would not pass the supers desk unless i met him and answered all his questions, some of them extremelly personal. Even after i politely explained that it was the chiefs decision and no one elses i was told there was a chain of command and the super had to asses the application before it went further. Again i explained and was told i meet and answer questions or it goes no further.

Grizzly 45

Hmm,does kind of back up my point about this involving the Super as well

Play their game and do it.But ask plenty of questions in return.Like, why is this particular personal question relevant, under which section of the firearms act?

And take notes too, or ask that you can record the conversation when you are in the office.So that there is no "misunderstandings" of the questions,and leave the Super with a copy too.In fact aGS have this equipment too to hand in the suspect interview rooms,and you can ask to conduct the meeting there too if they will use their own recording equipment. You have been "advised" by legal counsel to do this as well. IOW show them that you are not going to be a pushover too, and also remind them you are not obliged to answer "very personal questions" either and will either answer " No comment "or "I decline to answer such a personal question". Someone is trying to put you off in the office,so play the game,but bring some curve balls too.

jb88

If you want to get an M1 Garand in 30 06, let me know. I have one and they are cool.
Sent you a PM

Cass

Lads,

NO political discussion in the target forum. That includes actual politics as well as club/association stuff.

This forum is a strictly No Politics forum. no exceptions.

Cass

Sorry i missed this before and i know it's probably a little late.

solarwinds wrote: »

Thats all good and well but what happens when you have a situation like i did where i was told my application would not pass the supers desk unless i met him and answered all his questions................ Again i explained and was told i meet and answer questions or it goes no further.

Then ask for the refusal, from the Super, in writing.

Applying for a firearm is a right. It's one of the few rights we actually have. You have the right, unless disqualified, to apply and cannot be refused this right simply because the Super says so.

The Super may vet an application before it goes to the Chief Super to make sure it's actually a "Chief Super" application, but that is where the Super's involvement ends.

As i said above ask for the refusal to process the application in writing. Either he'll [the Super] give it, refuse it, or process the application.

• If he gives the refusal you then use this to further the application.
• If he refuses to give the refusal to contact whatever association, club or group you're with
• If he processes/sends it to the Chief Super then all is good in the world.

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

As i said above ask for the refusal to process the application in writing. Either he'll [the Super] give it, refuse it, or process the application.

I doubt the Super would be able to issue a refusal for a restricted firearm seeing as they can't give the authorisation for one.

Surely it would have to be the Chief Super who issues the refusal?

Grizzly 45

It's their administrative chain of command.
Your local Sgt has to clear you as being the man on the ground, he is supposed to know the local citizens and heads. Then it ends up on the super's desk for whatever reason,and then it goes to the Cheif for final yea or nay. Between that, there are of course numerous secretaries and whatnot who push the file from one IN Tray to their OUT tray as the process evolves, with plenty of chances of it being "lost".So quite frankly, it's not surprising they need 90 days with such an inefficient system.:rolleyes:

Cass

I didn't say to ask for a refusal for the firearm. In the quote of mine it even says what i was asking for. A refusal to process the application. Above that i said:

The Super may vet an application before it goes to the Chief Super to make sure it's actually a "Chief Super" application, but that is where the Super's involvement ends.

You have a right to apply so to refuse that right is grounds for appeal/reconsideration.

However you can do nothing if it's all over the phone. You need a refusal letter from the Super saying he won't process the application and forward it to the Chief Super's office unless conditions he [the Super] sets out are met.

TheEngineer1

Would historical significance count as a good reason for applying for an FAL seeing as it was in service with the army? Or would the Chief Superintendent laugh at you? Or would depend on the individual Chief Superintendent?

BattleCorp

I don't think historical significance comes into it unless you are looking for a permit to keep a deactivated firearm.

The usual reasons are target shooting, hunting and vermin control.

CplCurley

I was pushing for the same logic, especially since my father used the fn with the PDF in 60s.

With all the requirements I decided to get bolt acton smle in 303

tac foley

TheEngineer1 wrote: »

Would historical significance count as a good reason for applying for an FAL seeing as it was in service with the army? Or would the Chief Superintendent laugh at you? Or would depend on the individual Chief Superintendent?

I live a spit and a f*rt away from the East Coast of England, and I'm betting I could hear the laffin' from my open window.


If the acquisition of firearms of historical significance had any measure of relevance, many of you would have an old 11mm Mauser Mod.84, a mainstay rifle of the 1916 Rising. Or even the not-quite-so-old Steyr M95.

IF you were to join a group that shot vintage firearms in competition, then there is a very slim chance that you might win that argument, but frankly I'm of the opinion that you are on to a solid loser with that argument.


No doubt a few here will give you the real skinny on the ownership of so-called historical firearms.

Grizzly 45

It has been done!
A broom handle Mauser C96 aka "Peter the painter" pistol was licensed to a gun dealer in Kerry to him as an individual and his private collection,on its historical significance and value.BUT,he can only use it about three times a year on an approved range.[Which is of no big deal to him],and he was going up an ultra-hostile to private gun ownership chief in a district court case, back in the bad old days of the Oughties.

In this case, unless you could find the gun that was issued to your dad in the army during his service,you might have a chance. Or that the gun was used on some significant historical event. Like maybe JFK inspected it and handled it when he came to visit?Or it was in Jadotville in the Congo? But otherwise...No

You have plenty of good reason as it stands. Historical rifle shooting of an Irish service rifle. Sign up for bullseye 360 as well or I believe even the Fclass section now has a discipline for semi-autos? Ignore any nonsense of the claims that any post-Sept 08 cant be licensed as they "might be" revoked at some future date. Keep a ten round mag in it and you are good to go under EU directives if that is thrown at you.All he can say is no, and in that case have a word with your local Firearms United Network rep, about appealing and covering your costs,if you are a signed up member.:)

gunny123

I believe any of the firearms in the collins barracks museum in dublin, from the historic periods of our countries past have been butchered, i mean deactivated. Zero respect shown to the very tools used to achieve a republic in the first place.

tac foley

True thing. A few years back somebody found and donated Michael Collins' own revolver. The first thing they did to it in the museum was to hack it in half and weld it back again.

Grizzly 45

I knew up to about a decade ago where one of Daniel O Connell's duelling pistols was in Austrailia.it is a Nock, that he sent out to his brother after one of the Monster rallies in Clare complete with a little miniature of himself. Was very reasonable too to buy.

But FECK if I would or let anyone else have that info here in Ireland, for exactly that reason of what would happen to it in our museums!:mad: I dont care how historically valuable it is, or that it should be back here in reland.It would be like putting the Mona Lisa in a pig sty.:mad:

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

I believe any of the firearms in the collins barracks museum in dublin, from the historic periods of our countries past have been butchered, i mean deactivated. Zero respect shown to the very tools used to achieve a republic in the first place.

I wonder are they deacted to conform in respect to the new EU directive of 2017?? IOW welded up to be an awkward high tech metal club??:mad:

tac foley

Very doubtful, Grizzly. Those rules have only just come into effect, and the Collins revolver must have been ruined about ten years ago.

gunny123

Can you imagine how much some wealthy irish american would spend on a revolver in good condition owned by Collins ? Blank cheque time.

I remember similarly JRR Tolkiens revolver was handed into the police in Oxford during an amnesty, and an ordinary plod instantly knew it was something worth preserving. Its in the museum in Leeds on display, i doubt its been butchered though.

Grizzly 45

tac foley wrote: »

Very doubtful, Grizzly. Those rules have only just come into effect, and the Collins revolver must have been ruined about ten years ago.

Was SARCASM Tac.:P

Grizzly 45

You can be assured if it is in UK land it has been chopped.:mad: Even Winston Churchills guns have been chopped by those barbarians! I saw Stanley Kubrick's HKP7 for sale at silly money in a deactivated state in the UK a few years ago.It would have fetched even sillier money in the USA if it was in a firing condition.:(

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Was SARCASM Tac.:P

I know.